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LakersForever
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 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: Could have had JO for Bynum straight up? |
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FYI
Per www.hoopsworld.com:
If the Indiana Pacers launch the 2006-07 season with Jermaine O'Neal it will be a surprise. They've been shopping him for much of the summer, with the Los Angeles Lakers being a primary target. In fact, if the Lakers had been willing to part with Andrew Bynum at last year's trade deadline O'Neal would probably already have 20 or so games as a Laker under his belt.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22942.shtml
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Would have took more than Andrew Bynum to match salaries... the more and more I hear things like this, and what Indy Dave reports, the more I believe that the Lakers haven't offered the Pacers Andrew Bynum (plus fillers) and that's all it would take.
I hope I am wrong.
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Lakers 71-72
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If the Indiana Pacers launch the 2006-07 season with Jermaine O'Neal it will be a surprise. |
Maybe this writer can catch up with the times? |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Keep Magic_Bryant and Kobe Bryant away from this thread. All hell will break loose 
This is one of the problems with the internet. You hear so many things, lord knows what is true.
To tell you the truth, I do agree with the notion that the Lakers rather deal Odom than Bynum - but I also believe that Walsh isn't just asking for Bynum. He is asking for a lot more. Even if he backed down from Odom, I bet he is asking for Kwame, Crittenton, Radmanovic, Evans, Farmar and Cook for JO + a bad K (Murphy/Dunleavy).
BTW - Since it comes from Hoopsworld, I'm sure we should ask Emplay to chime in. He should have a good idea of whether that is close to the truth or not. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Would have took more than Andrew Bynum to match salaries... the more and more I hear things like this, and what Indy Dave reports, the more I believe that the Lakers haven't offered the Pacers Andrew Bynum (plus fillers) and that's all it would take.
I hope I am wrong. |
First if it is reported to be just Drew then clearly Odom would not be in the offer since Odom is not a filler. If we assume Kwame to be filler then any of the following would have to happen.
First of all the filler would have to be around 17 million to go along with Bynum's 2 million to match JO's around 20 million contract.
Obviously if it was not Odom it would have to be Kwame it would seem with his 9 million plus other players like Rad or Cook + probably Farmar and or Crit.
If Kwame (and Odom) weren't in the package both Rad and Cook + another 4 players. What would Indy be doing wanting a total of 6 players for 1 player. There would have to be another team involved it would seem if Kwame (and Odom) were not in the package.
This Drew straight up report seems dupious to say the least.
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| All it means is whe had an offer, Indy says thats nice, throw in Bynum and it's a deal. That blurb says nothing about Bynum + filler without a major piece. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Well if you go by the KG trade package.
Jefferson
Green
Telfair
2 1st rounders
Gomes
Ratliff.
A weaker version of that same trade package is possibly enough, but one must also consider that JO is a 70-80% of the player KG is so the package can be less talented too.
Bynum
Crittenton
Farmar
2 1st rounders
Cook
Kwame
Is that enough? IMO if you go by what KG got dealt for .. it is in the realms of possibility that the Pacers take that deal.
However it leaves us with a very thin roster post trade - at the PG + C spots.
Mihm/Turiaf
JO/Radmanovic
Odom/Walton
Kobe/Evams
Fisher/Vujacic
Think that team is a lock for 50 wins, maybe 54-56 if things fall in place health + chemistry wise .. but IMO it is not a championship contender with the type of Center + PG Talent they have. Too many teams will expose those 2 spots in the playoffs (Amare+Nash, Duncan+Parker etc). I can see that team at best be a 3rd seed in the west - maybe passing the Mavs as the 3rd best team behind SA + Phx. |
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Dennis_D
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Could have had JO for Bynum straight up? |
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| LakersForever wrote: | | Bill Ingram wrote: | | If the Indiana Pacers launch the 2006-07 season with Jermaine O'Neal it will be a surprise. They've been shopping him for much of the summer, with the Los Angeles Lakers being a primary target. In fact, if the Lakers had been willing to part with Andrew Bynum at last year's trade deadline O'Neal would probably already have 20 or so games as a Laker under his belt. |
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I don't believe this one. The About The Author box for Bill Ingram says:
| Quote: | | Bill Ingram is Executive Editor for Basketball News, powering HOOPSWORLD.COM, SWISH Magazine, and The Basketball News Report. He is a member of the Professional Basketball Writers Association and primarily covers the Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, and San Antonio Spurs. He can be heard on tonight on KRLD 1080AM in Dallas. |
So some sportswriter who covers the Mavs, Rockets and Spurs knows what happened between the Pacers and the Lakers? I would trust Indy Dave more.
20 or so games mean that JO would have joined the Lakers by roughly 3/9. The trade deadline was 2/22. I guess he is assuming that JO would miss ~ 9 games after being traded to the Lakers.
On 1/17, Indy made a multi-player trade with the Warriors that made them younger. They went 9-6 between the trade and the trade deadline. The first two games were losses, so they Pacers were really looking at a 9-4 record with the new line up. Why would they break that up? Particularly as trading for Bynum is effectively blowing up the team.
After the trade deadline, the Pacers went 6-23. Trading JO now makes a lot more sense.
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ShadyG
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Would have took more than Andrew Bynum to match salaries... the more and more I hear things like this, and what Indy Dave reports, the more I believe that the Lakers haven't offered the Pacers Andrew Bynum (plus fillers) and that's all it would take. |
Well it's been suggested for a while that Bynum/Kwame/Vlad could work. Even the BYC Cook would fit in there. If by "fillers" however we're thinking we get to keep Lamar AND Kwame, I don't think it's possible. As mentioned, Cook is BYC, and Walton, Fisher, and Mihm are all off the board until 12/15. So all we have to package with Bynum is Vlad and a bunch of cheap players. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole remainder of the team at that point is not enough salary.
Ok, I just tried it on RealGM, and as of today, we could package Bynum, Vlad, Cook, Sasha, Mo, Crittenton, Farmar, and Turiaf for JO. Take any one out and it doesn't work. That's the only way to keep Kobe, LO, and Kwame.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: |
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^^^Kwame would have to be included in a Bynum (no LO) trade.... they won't take Vlad/Cook when they could take Kwame's expiring deal.
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Exick
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Could have had JO for Bynum straight up? |
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| Dennis_D wrote: | | 20 or so games mean that JO would have joined the Lakers by roughly 3/9. The trade deadline was 2/22. I guess he is assuming that JO would miss ~ 9 games after being traded to the Lakers. |
Well O'Neal only played 22 games for the Pacers after the deadline, so that's probably the number he's using.
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Tanlentueux
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| ShadyG wrote: | | we could package Bynum, Vlad, Cook, Sasha, Mo, Crittenton, Farmar, and Turiaf for JO. Take any one out and it doesn't work. That's the only way to keep Kobe, LO, and Kwame. |
all that for Jumaine stupid, soft, and injury machine O' Null? |
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Flatlyner
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Bynum
Crittenton
Farmar
2 1st rounders
Cook
Kwame
Is that enough? IMO if you go by what KG got dealt for .. it is in the realms of possibility that the Pacers take that deal.
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You would have to be nuts or hate the Lakers to trade all of those players for one, older PF. Crit AND Farmar AND Bynum AND 2 1st rounders?!! Absolutely NOT. Mortgage our entire future on one injury prone player that has had the luxury of playing against weaker eastern teams? Not even Mitch is as dumb as that suggestion. |
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LakerJam
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Flatlyner wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Bynum
Crittenton
Farmar
2 1st rounders
Cook
Kwame
Is that enough? IMO if you go by what KG got dealt for .. it is in the realms of possibility that the Pacers take that deal.
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You would have to be nuts or hate the Lakers to trade all of those players for one, older PF. Crit AND Farmar AND Bynum AND 2 1st rounders?!! Absolutely NOT. Mortgage our entire future on one injury prone player that has had the luxury of playing against weaker eastern teams? Not even Mitch is as dumb as that suggestion. |
I agree. Quite frankly, JO has gotten so freakin over-rated on this board because of the desperation of fans, and it's growing more every day. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Could have had JO for Bynum straight up? |
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| Dennis_D wrote: | I don't believe this one. The About The Author box for Bill Ingram says:
| Quote: | | Bill Ingram is Executive Editor for Basketball News, powering HOOPSWORLD.COM, SWISH Magazine, and The Basketball News Report. He is a member of the Professional Basketball Writers Association and primarily covers the Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, and San Antonio Spurs. He can be heard on tonight on KRLD 1080AM in Dallas. |
So some sportswriter who covers the Mavs, Rockets and Spurs knows what happened between the Pacers and the Lakers? I would trust Indy Dave more. . |
I would believe a sportswriter whose actually talking to team personnel than a fan on a sports board who is simply reading what sportswriters are writing. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| LakerJam wrote: | | Flatlyner wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Bynum
Crittenton
Farmar
2 1st rounders
Cook
Kwame
Is that enough? IMO if you go by what KG got dealt for .. it is in the realms of possibility that the Pacers take that deal.
|
You would have to be nuts or hate the Lakers to trade all of those players for one, older PF. Crit AND Farmar AND Bynum AND 2 1st rounders?!! Absolutely NOT. Mortgage our entire future on one injury prone player that has had the luxury of playing against weaker eastern teams? Not even Mitch is as dumb as that suggestion. |
I agree. Quite frankly, JO has gotten so freakin over-rated on this board because of the desperation of fans, and it's growing more every day. |
I never said I would do it. Just was suggesting what it would actually take - meaning it's not just Bynum that is going out, Need to add more salary, pieces etc.
Only on LG can you be called a desperate fan that wants to trade your favorite players and a homer/player jocker of those same players ! |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | All it means is whe had an offer, Indy says thats nice, throw in Bynum and it's a deal. That blurb says nothing about Bynum + filler without a major piece. |
That's how I read it too. |
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LakersFanKB#24
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| why trade critt and farmar, just pick one of them, but sure as hell don't want to trade both. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | | All it means is whe had an offer, Indy says thats nice, throw in Bynum and it's a deal. That blurb says nothing about Bynum + filler without a major piece. |
That's how I read it too. |
Yes, that's very true.... the deal easily could have been LO + fillers, then Indy asks for Bynum, Lakers aren't willing to throw him in, and so no deal. Funny how often when the JO rumor speculation is thrown around reporters just assume LO is a throw in for the sake of a throw in.
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indy_dave00
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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The best deal for Pacers would be Bynum, Crittenton ( i know laker fans say Farmar ), Brown , a resigned McKie @ 3.25 mil , and filler Vujacic plus perhaps a future #1 for JO , Harrison and Armstrong.
JO plays pf/c, Harrison a 7' , 4th year player is depth at center, Armstrong security at pg if Farmar or Fisher go down.
Most Laker fans would bulk at both Bynum and Crittenton but though they have great potential neither is a lead pipe lock to reach it.
Lakers
pg--Fisher, Farmar, Armstrong
sg--Bryant , Evans, Karl
sf-- Odom, Walton , Radmanovic
pf-- JO, Turiaf,Cook
c--Mihm , Harrison
You also have the Odom-pf, JO -C, Walton -sf option against smaller teams.
Pacers
pg-Tinsley ,Diener, Crittenton
sg--Dunleavy , Daniels, Rush , Vujacic
sf- Granger, Williams , Graham
pf--Murphy, Diogu
c--Foster, Bynum,Brown
Pacers have no go to guy but a deep team, with a mix of youth for the future.
Its a basic 4 for 3 trade . Included Sasha with the way salary matching works allows both Armstrong and Harrison to be included. Without Sashe , upping amount paid to McKie to 4mil ( Lakers sending 3mil max allowed in a trade ) allows Harrison added.
So 2nd option would be;
Bynum, Crittenton, Brown , resigned McKie @ 4mil ( Lakers pay 3 m Pacers 1 m he is then waived ) and a possible future 1st for JO and Harrison . Your basic 3 for 2 trade , remember Kwame has a 7.5 % trade kicker , he counts 9.755 mil in a trade.
But as I've said Bynum has yet to be offered.
Last edited by indy_dave00 on Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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20,000
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: |
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^^Not that I would go for either trade scenario, Dave, but any trade option that has Sasha going out is the one I would opt for.
Any trade scenarios with both Cook and Sasha going out?
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re4ee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Would have took more than Andrew Bynum to match salaries... the more and more I hear things like this, and what Indy Dave reports, the more I believe that the Lakers haven't offered the Pacers Andrew Bynum (plus fillers) and that's all it would take.
I hope I am wrong. |
Is this the kind of grammar they teach in law school?
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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^I'd do that... except no 1st round pick. Kwame, Bynum, McKie, Crittenton, and Sasha for JO and Harrison. We'd sign Yue to back up Farmar.
I have a feeling Lakers won't deal Bynum no matter what though.... especially if all you have reported lately is true.
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re4ee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| indy_dave00 wrote: | The best deal for Pacers would be Bynum, Crittenton ( i know laker fans say Farmar ), Brown , a resigned McKie @ 3.25 mil , and filler Vujacic plus perhaps a future #1 for JO , Harrison and Armstrong.
JO plays pf/c, Harrison a 7' , 4th year player is depth at center, Armstrong security at pg if Farmar or Fisher go down.
Most Laker fans would bulk at both Bynum and Crittenton but though they have great potential neither is a lead pipe lock to reach it.
Lakers
pg--Fisher, Farmar, Armstrong
sg--Bryant , Evans, Karl
sf-- Odom, Walton , Radmanovic
pf-- JO, Turiaf,Cook
c--Mihm , Harrison
You also have the Odom-pf, JO -C, Walton -sf option against smaller teams.
Pacers
pg-Tinsley ,Diener, Crittenton
sg--Dunleavy , Daniels, Rush , Vujacic
sf- Granger, Williams , Graham
pf--Murphy, Diogu
c--Foster, Bynum,Brown
Pacers have no go to guy but a deep team, with a mix of youth for the future.
Its a basic 4 for 3 trade . Included Sasha with the way salary matching works allows both Armstrong and Harrison to be included. Without Sashe , upping amount paid to McKie to 4mil ( Lakers sending 3mil max allowed in a trade ) allows Harrison added.
So 2nd option would be;
Bynum, Crittenton, Brown , resigned McKie @ 4mil ( Lakers pay 3 m Pacers 1 m he is then waived ) and a possible future 1st for JO and Harrison . Your basic 3 for 2 trade , remember Kwame has a 7.5 % trade kicker , he counts 9.755 mil in a trade.
But as I've said Bynum has yet to be offered. |
We gave up "bulking" with the Shaq trade...
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Exick
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | ^^Not that I would go for either trade scenario, Dave, but any trade option that has Sasha going out is the one I would opt for.
Any trade scenarios with both Cook and Sasha going out? |
I was actually going to suggest a counter to indy dave's proposal that sent them Cook. Replace McKie with Cook in the proposed deal.
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