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LakerLanny
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 Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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To me, the fact that Pau is talking offense instead of defense is one of the biggest indicators of what the problem is.
When the Lakers need stops in close games against good teams, they are having a hard time getting them.
They also give up way too many wide open shots or concession baskets per game, it is pretty ugly despite their overall defensive stats. Those are skewed by a home heavy early schedule against a lot of bad teams.
Better defense will lead to better offense, I do think Kobe is too quick to break the offense....but the team was struggling to score today when he went into hero mode, I can't blame him for that....it was his wide open 3 he gave Barnes in the most crucial part of the game that I found disturbing.
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tgf5
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey Gasol, how about you shoot the damn ball, instead of overpassing, and having 3 second calls? |
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nokio
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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How about helping Mr. Bryant in a 4th quarter or two? It always does crack me up how Pau wants things to run inside out throughout the course of the game, yet wants absolutely no part of the ball in crunch time.
He's been playing soft, when he's capable of not playing soft (last season). He's consistently blowing layups, has no assertiveness in the post when he has an advantage, and is a no show in 4th quarters.
And the fact of the matter is, we tried the "feed the bigs" strategy for the first 5 games or so after Kobe's return and it hasn't helped our offensive efficiency one bit.
Last edited by nokio on Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:50 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| HyeLakers wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Kobetide wrote: | Getting touches and getting FGA are two different things. Pau gets touches with the interior post pass. The only problem with him is that he is a pass first post player. That comes with his finesse game as Europeans think about
If you pass it to Bynum in the post, it is going up. Pau needs to adopt a score first mentality if he is to get his share of the pie with Kobe Bryant and others. You have to go make plays, deviate from the flow of the offense, and score. Kobe breaks away from the triangle every time he goes into isolation. The triangle involves several passes and getting baskets off of cuts. Going into isolations is basically the player saying, "I'm getting mine."
Pau, take your man off the dribble, face up if he's big, back-in if he's smaller and get yours. Otherwise, we knew who got the lion portion of food when the Gasol brothers were young and fighting over the last bite. |
I could be misunderstanding you, but to improve the flow of the offense Pau needs to break away from the offense like Kobe does? Wouldn't that contribute to worsening the offensive flow? |
So the fact that he gets the ball and passes is out is Kobe's fault? Makes sense.
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Not really. Kobe breaking the triangle is his fault, to suggest that Gasol doing so as well would improve offensive flow is simply wrong.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kemi4kobes wrote: | lmao i must be watching a different game.
Pau thinks everything would be fixed by him getting more touches.
Unreal. |
Offensive flow is always improved when the ball is being passed and not held by one player. The triangle is designed to work through the post (hence the name, triple post offense). Are you satisfied with the way the offense has been executed? The triangle is almost non-existent, and was no where to be found in the 4th quarter today.
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tw-lakbfan
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Joined: 29 Jun 2001
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | To me, the fact that Pau is talking offense instead of defense is one of the biggest indicators of what the problem is.
When the Lakers need stops in close games against good teams, they are having a hard time getting them.
They also give up way too many wide open shots or concession baskets per game, it is pretty ugly despite their overall defensive stats. Those are skewed by a home heavy early schedule against a lot of bad teams.
Better defense will lead to better offense, I do think Kobe is too quick to break the offense....but the team was struggling to score today when he went into hero mode, I can't blame him for that....it was his wide open 3 he gave Barnes in the most crucial part of the game that I found disturbing. |
Yes. Right now I'm most disturbed by our lack of D, either from Fisher, Farmar, Kobe, Bynum, Pau or Odom. All of our players don't put most of their focus/energy on D. Ugly to watch. Urhhhhhhhhhh As fat Barkley said, annoying!
Last edited by tw-lakbfan on Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Our offense is absolutely dysfunctional, and at times painful to watch. I cannot believe anyone here seriously questions the wisdom of moving the basketball. |
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thetruthhurts
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| He should call Kobe out. Kobe's shot selection is horrible. The Lakers were playing way better as a team before he came back from injury. |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Same ol', same ol'
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Drifts
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | How aggressive does he need to be? Walk over to Kobe, deck him, then take the ball? If a big has his man sealed off that should be aggressive enough. |
pau's not been sealing his man enough though...
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thetruthhurts
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: |
Better defense will lead to better offense |
And better offense will lead to better defense. When players don't get the ball on offense they start ball-watching and that translates to the other end. Pass the (bleep) ball, kobe. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think Gasol's putrid defense vs the pick and roll was the problem more than Kobe's shooting...
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | How aggressive does he need to be? Walk over to Kobe, deck him, then take the ball? If a big has his man sealed off that should be aggressive enough. |
pau's not been sealing his man enough though... |
I can agree with that. Bynum is the one who more often gets ignored when he gets his man sealed, or the pass comes too late. Kobe is generally not the offender in those cases, he is very adept at getting him the ball when and where he needs it.
I am not going to complain about Kobe's games during these past 3 losses. He has contributed to the general dysfunction of the offense, but he is far from the only one. I would think that Gasol and Artest are responsible as well. My only complaint about Kobe specifically is the 4th quarter today, he seemed to ignore the team all together and wanted to win the game himself.
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | I think Gasol's putrid defense vs the pick and roll was the problem more than Kobe's shooting... |
It was one of many problems. People need to stop trying putting one over the other.
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nokio
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| thetruthhurts wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: |
Better defense will lead to better offense |
And better offense will lead to better defense. When players don't get the ball on offense they start ball-watching and that translates to the other end. Pass the (bleep) ball, kobe. |
That's (bleep). Against Philly Gasol and Bynum got 17 and 16 shots respectively, while Samuel Dalembert had a CAREER HIGH 24 points against them. And SIX offensive rebounds.
I'm sorry, but the "feed the bigs and they'll pick their energy up and defend" is proven to be extremely flawed for the guys on this team.
Last edited by nokio on Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | How aggressive does he need to be? Walk over to Kobe, deck him, then take the ball? If a big has his man sealed off that should be aggressive enough. |
pau's not been sealing his man enough though... |
I can agree with that. Bynum is the one who more often gets ignored when he gets his man sealed, or the pass comes too late. Kobe is generally not the offender in those cases, he is very adept at getting him the ball when and where he needs it.
I am not going to complain about Kobe's games during these past 3 losses. He has contributed to the general dysfunction of the offense, but he is far from the only one. I would think that Gasol and Artest are responsible as well. My only complaint about Kobe specifically is the 4th quarter today, he seemed to ignore the team all together and wanted to win the game himself. |
I do believe when the Lakers went away from Kobe, they were unable to get off shots, w/c is the least they couldve done - make an attempt...but I would agree that we can try to get the ball to Gasol more, if that's what it takes to get him to play better defense.
Kobe gets the ball to Bynum, because Bynum seals his man effectively. Gasol wasn't too strong to push off against Howard.
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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msb212
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Pau needs to STFU. he passes out of the post consistently when he had a foot over whoever is guarding him , when he is 10 feet fromt he basket. Or, he loses the ball.
Just pathetic |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| nokio wrote: | | thetruthhurts wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: |
Better defense will lead to better offense |
And better offense will lead to better defense. When players don't get the ball on offense they start ball-watching and that translates to the other end. Pass the (bleep) ball, kobe. |
That's (bleep). Against Philly Gasol and Bynum got 17 and 16 shots respectively, while Samuel Dalembert had a CAREER HIGH 24 points against them. And SIX offensive rebounds.
I'm sorry, but the "feed the bigs and they'll pick their energy up and defend" myth is proven to be extremely flawed for the guys on this team. |
That had more to do with our bad perimeter D than anything else.
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Drifts
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nokio wrote: | | thetruthhurts wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: |
Better defense will lead to better offense |
And better offense will lead to better defense. When players don't get the ball on offense they start ball-watching and that translates to the other end. Pass the (bleep) ball, kobe. |
That's (bleep). Against Philly Gasol and Bynum got 17 and 16 shots respectively, while Samuel Dalembert had a CAREER HIGH 24 points against them. And SIX offensive rebounds.
I'm sorry, but the "feed the bigs and they'll pick their energy up and defend" myth is proven to be extremely flawed for the guys on this team. |
It's quite embarrassing how D-Leage our pick and roll defense is...and they probably won't be able to correct it until they come back to LA
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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thetruthhurts
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nokio wrote: |
I'm sorry, but the "feed the bigs and they'll pick their energy up and defend" is proven to be extremely flawed for the guys on this team. |
Why did the Lakers do so well when Kobe was out for 5 games? That was against quality competition and the wins were decisive. Think the bigs might have been a little more into the game knowing they were going to be getting touches? |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm starting to get really tired of this guy's mouth. He needs to learn when to shut up. I have no problem with him saying that they need to do better offensively, but when you keep taking subtle jabs at Kobe, there becomes a problem.
Pau needs to get his own (bleep) together. He's playing lazy, he's playing soft and he's been terrible defensively. |
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Nobody
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | I'm starting to get really tired of this guy's mouth. He needs to learn when to shut up. I have no problem with him saying that they need to do better offensively, but when you keep taking subtle jabs at Kobe, there becomes a problem.
Pau needs to get his own (bleep) together. He's playing lazy, he's playing soft and he's been terrible defensively. |
+1 |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe Pau thinks that Kobe is the problem?
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TobiasBeecher
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe was out for more than half of the 2nd quarter against Orlando and none of the Lakers did (bleep). I believe either Odom or Bynum were in or Gasol and Odom...I can't remember and neither Brown or Farmar made an effort to bring the ball inside.
Pau should shut the (bleep) up, though. If he was playing like a man and making these statements, then I could roll with his complaints.
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HyeLakers
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | HyeLakers wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Kobetide wrote: | Getting touches and getting FGA are two different things. Pau gets touches with the interior post pass. The only problem with him is that he is a pass first post player. That comes with his finesse game as Europeans think about
If you pass it to Bynum in the post, it is going up. Pau needs to adopt a score first mentality if he is to get his share of the pie with Kobe Bryant and others. You have to go make plays, deviate from the flow of the offense, and score. Kobe breaks away from the triangle every time he goes into isolation. The triangle involves several passes and getting baskets off of cuts. Going into isolations is basically the player saying, "I'm getting mine."
Pau, take your man off the dribble, face up if he's big, back-in if he's smaller and get yours. Otherwise, we knew who got the lion portion of food when the Gasol brothers were young and fighting over the last bite. |
I could be misunderstanding you, but to improve the flow of the offense Pau needs to break away from the offense like Kobe does? Wouldn't that contribute to worsening the offensive flow? |
So the fact that he gets the ball and passes is out is Kobe's fault? Makes sense.
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Not really. Kobe breaking the triangle is his fault, to suggest that Gasol doing so as well would improve offensive flow is simply wrong. |
Lol, good job only quoting the part you thought you could respond to, not that you did even taking it out of context.
Dishonesty and Ventura go hand in hand. Pathetic.
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