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tom
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 Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | I like getting Zoub for the Lakers at either pick actually. We need a cheap third center and that rookie contract will undercut what Mbenga could require. Every nickel we can save counts towards another, more critical signing. |
That's a lame excuse to take a player that nothing but a stiff. At pick 43. 13 in the second round. They can do much better. Then a guy that will go Undrafted... |
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Sky
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Did he disappear during the BIG DANCES?
Pac 10 tournament final: 12 points 3 assists 3 turnovers (3-11 fg)
NCAA 2nd round: 12 points 2 assists
I'm willing to bet I saw Cal a lot more often than you did Pivot. Saw them live twice and frequently on cable. Randle is quick, good passing eye, great 3 stroke, but you cannot count on him. In the biggest dances of the year, two of the three most important games, he failed. Biggest opponents regular season he failed more often than not. He'll give you what he has, but what he has often doesn't hold up against quality opposition or the bright lights.
The overvaluing 43 comment was directed at tom, not you. |
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kwest80
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a Cal fan so I'm a little familiar with Randle (though I haven't gotten to see him play too much, unfortunately). Torrance I don't know at all other than these scouting reports.
First thing, is Torrance really a good defender or are we assuming that because he's longer? One of the scouting reports above says he needs to work on preventing penetration from PGs. (Again, I know nothing about the guy.)
Also to note, same site says that Randle can be a tough defender but will likely get overpowered because of his size, which is kind of how I see it too.
I love Randle, but based on what I know, I may have to go with Torrance. Randle is a good player but chafed when put into Braun's system at Cal that featured putting the ball in Ryan Anderson's hands and not his. Assuming the Lakers are still running the tri, he may chafe in this system too since it's pretty clear he needs the ball to be effective.
Randle to me seems like a poor man's Nate Robinson. Quick, but less explosive than Nate. Possibly a better shooter and better passer, but prone to overdribbling and perhaps suspect judgment. He can play the same spark off the bench role for some team in limited minutes. |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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PnP you said in the other thread you see Randle as a 2nd/3rd string PG. I see Torrance as potentially being a starter one day.
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kwest80
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Sky wrote: | Did he disappear during the BIG DANCES?
Pac 10 tournament final: 12 points 3 assists 3 turnovers (3-11 fg)
NCAA 2nd round: 12 points 2 assists
I'm willing to bet I saw Cal a lot more often than you did Pivot. Saw them live twice and frequently on cable. Randle is quick, good passing eye, great 3 stroke, but you cannot count on him. In the biggest dances of the year, two of the three most important games, he failed. Biggest opponents regular season he failed more often than not. He'll give you what he has, but what he has often doesn't hold up against quality opposition or the bright lights. |
I'm in the same boat with you as to not take Randle but I think your examples are a bit unfair.
Pac 10 final wasn't great for him but you're neglecting the other games in the tourney where he went 22pt/2ast and 24pt/6ast. Arguably, I think the first 2 games were more important than the final because an early exit out of the tourney for Cal was more disastrous than losing the final game. (Loss to UW, who went far to the Sweet 16.)
And you pick the game Cal lost against eventual champs Duke but ignore the 24pt/2ast game he had against Louisville in the first round. Anyone who saw the game would know that Cal was completely out of their league against Duke.
Assists are low but you only get an assist when your teammate scores. Cal's starting PF is 6'7", and the two guys playing center are a fat 6'7" dude and a rail thin offensively-challenged 7'3" chinese guy. These guys also made Zoubek look like an All-American.
So leave him as what he is. He's not a big guy so he does get outmatched. When you press him with tall wings, he struggles and can't shoot those 30 foot jumpers that he can make. I'm not sold that he struggles under the pressure. Just against people of better quality. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Sky wrote: | Did he disappear during the BIG DANCES?
Pac 10 tournament final: 12 points 3 assists 3 turnovers (3-11 fg)
NCAA 2nd round: 12 points 2 assists
I'm willing to bet I saw Cal a lot more often than you did Pivot. Saw them live twice and frequently on cable. Randle is quick, good passing eye, great 3 stroke, but you cannot count on him. In the biggest dances of the year, two of the three most important games, he failed. Biggest opponents regular season he failed more often than not. He'll give you what he has, but what he has often doesn't hold up against quality opposition or the bright lights.
The overvaluing 43 comment was directed at tom, not you. |
dont go for game 2. what did he do in game 1? 21 points (5-9) shooting. the kid had 10 fts.. that means he went to the rack at some point. or his 3ball is so scary they fouled him there.
so he played the #1 school DUKE. that focused in on him in game 2. cause he just got 10 fts the previous game and thru up 21. he had 12pts, 5-12 shooting. one more make and he's at 50%. so lets not act like he sucked all game long. he played the best seed in that bracket section.
we dont need him to be kobe. just fisher. hit timely shots while wide open. and on occasion dribble drive into the paint which you admit he can do.
dont act like the guy is a world class choker. you cant be a choker and end up with the MVP in these little invitationals where a lot of other guys are playing thats supposed to be better then him. on top of the fact he helped get cal to the tourny to begin with and slapped up Louisville. the rank was cal 8 vs lou 9. they smacked lousiville and it had a lot to do with randle getting those 10fts.
every ranked team cal played was of course doing just what duke did. taking cals best player and their floor general out of the game which would cut the head off the dragon. since cal wasn't that hot as a team if you look at other individual players.
like i said, he aint no kobe, or dwade type guy. i will admit that. but he can easily be dfish with kobe, ron, LO, gasol, bynum to keep guys from focusing in on him. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kaoss128 wrote: | | PnP you said in the other thread you see Randle as a 2nd/3rd string PG. I see Torrance as potentially being a starter one day. |
one day. i'm not hating on you or Torrance. i feel you. he MAY BE. but if he isn't we may throw the guy away. thats all i'm saying.
can anyone here guarantee me he will make the team if he walked into camp? cause i would put it on the line and say randle would make the team off of his play if he made camp. the only reason he wouldn't is off the strength pjax and the world hates shortys. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| kwest80 wrote: | I'm a Cal fan so I'm a little familiar with Randle (though I haven't gotten to see him play too much, unfortunately). Torrance I don't know at all other than these scouting reports.
First thing, is Torrance really a good defender or are we assuming that because he's longer? One of the scouting reports above says he needs to work on preventing penetration from PGs. (Again, I know nothing about the guy.)
Also to note, same site says that Randle can be a tough defender but will likely get overpowered because of his size, which is kind of how I see it too.
I love Randle, but based on what I know, I may have to go with Torrance. Randle is a good player but chafed when put into Braun's system at Cal that featured putting the ball in Ryan Anderson's hands and not his. Assuming the Lakers are still running the tri, he may chafe in this system too since it's pretty clear he needs the ball to be effective.
Randle to me seems like a poor man's Nate Robinson. Quick, but less explosive than Nate. Possibly a better shooter and better passer, but prone to overdribbling and perhaps suspect judgment. He can play the same spark off the bench role for some team in limited minutes. |
now. are you saying we cant use a spark off the bench? we're not about to find a darn starter at 43 2nd rd. if we do HOOOORAHHHH for us. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| kwest80 wrote: | | Sky wrote: | Did he disappear during the BIG DANCES?
Pac 10 tournament final: 12 points 3 assists 3 turnovers (3-11 fg)
NCAA 2nd round: 12 points 2 assists
I'm willing to bet I saw Cal a lot more often than you did Pivot. Saw them live twice and frequently on cable. Randle is quick, good passing eye, great 3 stroke, but you cannot count on him. In the biggest dances of the year, two of the three most important games, he failed. Biggest opponents regular season he failed more often than not. He'll give you what he has, but what he has often doesn't hold up against quality opposition or the bright lights. |
I'm in the same boat with you as to not take Randle but I think your examples are a bit unfair.
Pac 10 final wasn't great for him but you're neglecting the other games in the tourney where he went 22pt/2ast and 24pt/6ast. Arguably, I think the first 2 games were more important than the final because an early exit out of the tourney for Cal was more disastrous than losing the final game. (Loss to UW, who went far to the Sweet 16.)
And you pick the game Cal lost against eventual champs Duke but ignore the 24pt/2ast game he had against Louisville in the first round. Anyone who saw the game would know that Cal was completely out of their league against Duke.
Assists are low but you only get an assist when your teammate scores. Cal's starting PF is 6'7", and the two guys playing center are a fat 6'7" dude and a rail thin offensively-challenged 7'3" chinese guy. These guys also made Zoubek look like an All-American.
So leave him as what he is. He's not a big guy so he does get outmatched. When you press him with tall wings, he struggles and can't shoot those 30 foot jumpers that he can make. I'm not sold that he struggles under the pressure. Just against people of better quality. |
actually struggles against defenses that are geared towards shutting him down which shuts down cal the team. you can trap him out and dare the rest of the guys to beat you. when thats the case its nothing to send multiple defenders after 1 guy, whether or not the guy is great or just so so. thats the easiest way to get the W.
BUt he would have KOBE, Gasol, ROn, LO, BYnum. to make room for him. if they jump him. he gives it up to kobe. thats why they would never jump him. just like no one ever traps fisher. why not? you better not, if you do kobe is open. cant do that.
you think fish cant be trapped? of course he could. he isn't the best ball handler. but he has the best player on his team and other guys who are top 20 in the nba. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | synergy sports / draft express break down of tops points in the draft whole link : http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Situational-Statistics-This-Yearas-Point-Guard-Crop-3500/
The passing ability Jerome Randle showcased at the Portsmouth Invitational compliments his offensive productivity from last season quite well.
Despite his diminutive stature, Randle was one of the more impressive players in our analysis because of his jump shooting ability. His 54.3% adjusted FG% indicates that his prowess from the perimeter boosts his respectable 44.6% shooting from the field towards the top of the pack when pitted against his peers. Though he turned the ball over on 19.1% of his overall possessions, ranking him sixth amongst the players in our sample, his .974 points per-possession is good for fifth place and is a full tenth of a point higher than our third ranked point guard, Eric Bledsoe.
The driving force behind Randle’s success last season was his impeccable jump shooting ability. He took over 7 jumpers a game last season, and while he only connected on 38.4% of them, the majority of those shots were three pointers, making his 1.039 points per-jumper good for fourth best on this list. Though he doesn’t display a great pull up jumper, Randle is extremely competent shooting off the catch. (DEREK FISHER)
His ability to knock down shots in spot up situations is extremely impressive. Nearly two-thirds of his 3.3 catch and shoot jumpers per-game were defended, but he posted an adjusted field goal percentage of 64% and created 1.29 points-per shot in such situations. Clearly, Randle has learned to deal with the fact that he’s often shooting over much taller defenders, something that will help him considerably with his transition to the NBA game.
In addition to his surprising ability to make shots with the defense bearing down on him, Randle proves to be an average finisher, which, considering his size, is a pretty impressive accomplishment. He shot 51.3% on shots around the rim, which places him right in the middle of the pack and made him more efficient than bigger guards, such as Armon Johnson and Mikhail Torrance. |
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kwest80
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| postandpivot wrote: | | kwest80 wrote: | I'm a Cal fan so I'm a little familiar with Randle (though I haven't gotten to see him play too much, unfortunately). Torrance I don't know at all other than these scouting reports.
First thing, is Torrance really a good defender or are we assuming that because he's longer? One of the scouting reports above says he needs to work on preventing penetration from PGs. (Again, I know nothing about the guy.)
Also to note, same site says that Randle can be a tough defender but will likely get overpowered because of his size, which is kind of how I see it too.
I love Randle, but based on what I know, I may have to go with Torrance. Randle is a good player but chafed when put into Braun's system at Cal that featured putting the ball in Ryan Anderson's hands and not his. Assuming the Lakers are still running the tri, he may chafe in this system too since it's pretty clear he needs the ball to be effective.
Randle to me seems like a poor man's Nate Robinson. Quick, but less explosive than Nate. Possibly a better shooter and better passer, but prone to overdribbling and perhaps suspect judgment. He can play the same spark off the bench role for some team in limited minutes. |
now. are you saying we cant use a spark off the bench? we're not about to find a darn starter at 43 2nd rd. if we do HOOOORAHHHH for us. |
Lakers definitely can use a spark. But it'll be Jordan Farmar all over again if they pick Randle. Randle wanted to leave Cal when Braun didn't let him play his way.
Again, I love Randle but he needs to be in a system that fits him better. The triangle isn't it (assuming that's what the Lakers will continue to run). |
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kwest80
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| postandpivot wrote: | actually struggles against defenses that are geared towards shutting him down which shuts down cal the team. you can trap him out and dare the rest of the guys to beat you. when thats the case its nothing to send multiple defenders after 1 guy, whether or not the guy is great or just so so. thats the easiest way to get the W.
BUt he would have KOBE, Gasol, ROn, LO, BYnum. to make room for him. if they jump him. he gives it up to kobe. thats why they would never jump him. just like no one ever traps fisher. why not? you better not, if you do kobe is open. cant do that.
you think fish cant be trapped? of course he could. he isn't the best ball handler. but he has the best player on his team and other guys who are top 20 in the nba. |
The reason traps are especially tough for him is because he lacks size. Even Fish has 3 inches on him
Again, I love Randle. Great shot, gutsy player. My argument really is that he doesn't fit the Lakers. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| kwest80 wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | kwest80 wrote: | I'm a Cal fan so I'm a little familiar with Randle (though I haven't gotten to see him play too much, unfortunately). Torrance I don't know at all other than these scouting reports.
First thing, is Torrance really a good defender or are we assuming that because he's longer? One of the scouting reports above says he needs to work on preventing penetration from PGs. (Again, I know nothing about the guy.)
Also to note, same site says that Randle can be a tough defender but will likely get overpowered because of his size, which is kind of how I see it too.
I love Randle, but based on what I know, I may have to go with Torrance. Randle is a good player but chafed when put into Braun's system at Cal that featured putting the ball in Ryan Anderson's hands and not his. Assuming the Lakers are still running the tri, he may chafe in this system too since it's pretty clear he needs the ball to be effective.
Randle to me seems like a poor man's Nate Robinson. Quick, but less explosive than Nate. Possibly a better shooter and better passer, but prone to overdribbling and perhaps suspect judgment. He can play the same spark off the bench role for some team in limited minutes. |
now. are you saying we cant use a spark off the bench? we're not about to find a darn starter at 43 2nd rd. if we do HOOOORAHHHH for us. |
Lakers definitely can use a spark. But it'll be Jordan Farmar all over again if they pick Randle. Randle wanted to leave Cal when Braun didn't let him play his way.
Again, I love Randle but he needs to be in a system that fits him better. The triangle isn't it (assuming that's what the Lakers will continue to run). |
listen, farmar couldn't shoot the 3 ball, coming in. couldn't shoot ft's. couldn't penetrate that well.
it aint the same |
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kwest80
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| postandpivot wrote: | listen, farmar couldn't shoot the 3 ball, coming in. couldn't shoot ft's. couldn't penetrate that well.
it aint the same |
I'm not talking about the way they play. I'm talking about the way the team affects him. Farmar now wants out because he wants to do his own thing. I can see Randle doing the same. |
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bad boy killa
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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both undrafted, what a shame
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iubyont
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| now we can sign both for pennys. great job mitch. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| iubyont wrote: | | now we can sign both for pennys. great job mitch. |
yep lg minimum. only problem is randle will be in sacramentos camp. cause he wants to play for the queens. thats why i doubt he comes to our camp if sac camp is an option for him. |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Turns out Torrance has a heart condition so who knows what happens to him. I'd like to see Ben Uzoh get an invite.
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Sister Golden Hair
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| kaoss128 wrote: | | Turns out Torrance has a heart condition so who knows what happens to him. I'd like to see Ben Uzoh get an invite. |
Ditto on Uzoh.
Too bad about Torrance.
But I'd to see the team take a flyer on Uzoh. |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | Turns out Torrance has a heart condition so who knows what happens to him. I'd like to see Ben Uzoh get an invite. |
Ditto on Uzoh.
Too bad about Torrance.
But I'd to see the team take a flyer on Uzoh. |
I wish we had drafted Uzoh at 58 just so we would have his rights. He isn't going to make the team this year but he has all the physical tools so I would love to just have his rights in case he ever did put it all together.
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| well My Boy Randle is playing for the Wiz in the summer league. problem is, he probably wont make that team. its already guard heavy, wall is the star. so he will play much more then randle. randle may never see any real time all summer playing for the wiz. he should've waited if you can and hoped some other team scooped him up. |
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kwest80
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hey P&P, I've been following Randle too. I thought he was going to the Wiz's summer league, but then saw this today saying he's playing for the Magic:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_15397843 |
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davidse
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| torrance was signed today by maccabi tel aviv of isreal. |
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kaoss128
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | | torrance was signed today by maccabi tel aviv of isreal. |
He didn't play anywhere in Summer League correct? I wonder if the heart condition is cleared up or the Europe team doesn't care about it.
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:26 am Post subject: |
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LINK
This is why NBA teams are afraid to take a chance on guys with medical red flags. |
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