Hollinger: Is it panic time for the Lakers?

 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:24 am    Post subject: Hollinger: Is it panic time for the Lakers?

Hollinger has a new article out today on ESPN Insider. I am curious what he has to say. If anybody subscribes to ESPN insider could you please post what he says in this thread. Thanks!

Quote:
MEMPHIS -- I guess we better hit the panic button. A preseason championship contender has lost three straight and five of its past 10 games, including a loss at the buzzer in Memphis, a home loss to Indiana, and a big blown lead against Utah.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Hollinger: Is it panic time for the Lakers?

BobbyJ wrote:
Hollinger has a new article out today on ESPN Insider. I am curious what he has to say.


Problem #1.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject:

Hollinger is the one in panic mode. He bet the farm on Miami this year.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject:

Tick wrote:
Hollinger is the one in panic mode. He bet the farm on Miami this year.


True, but I'll be damned if he didn't have the Lakers number... I've already sent him an e-mail apology for slamming his (bleep)...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject:

Tick wrote:
Hollinger is the one in panic mode. He bet the farm on Miami this year.


Exactly. If you read that snippet, he's drawing a parallel between Miami and the Lakers.

I don't think that Miami should be in panic mode, but comparing their circumstances to the Lakers is incredibly specious. The Lakers have won back-to-back titles with their current core. There's precedent for this with this team. Miami? Not so much.

He's been noticeably quiet about Miami over the last couple of weeks, but now he has his angle, so he writes about them under the guise of a Laker article. He's the worst kind of statistician or scientist...someone who's so married to their preconceived notions that they find the evidence that supports their hypothesis instead of letting it determine their conclusion.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:49 am    Post subject:

Here you go, Bobby J.

Quote:
I guess we better hit the panic button. A preseason championship contender has lost three straight and five of its past 10 games, including a loss at the buzzer in Memphis, a home loss to Indiana, and a big blown lead against Utah.

Sound familiar?

Only this isn't Miami we're talking about -- it's the Los Angeles Lakers. And you'll forgive them if they're not exactly flustered by the recent mini-slide, even though they've betrayed some bad habits in the process. Suffice it to say nobody is wondering whether Mitch Kupchak will replace Phil Jackson.

With good reason. Unlike the Heat, the Lakers have been in all 18 games they've played this year, with their greatest defeat coming by a meager six points. Even on Tuesday night, with as many mistakes as they made, they had a chance to win at the buzzer, and lost largely because the Grizzlies were an unsustainable 8-of-12 on 3-pointers.

Throw in injuries to Andrew Bynum and Theo Ratliff and the inevitable grind of the far-flung Western Conference schedule (this trip, for instance, is basically a cross-country jaunt just for a Memphis-Houston back-to-back before returning to Cali on Thursday), and one can understand how L.A. has struggled to maintain the momentum from its 8-0 start.

[He goes on to list and describe what he perceives to be problems for three losses]

Kobe doing (too much) work

Forgetting the 7-footer

They can't check quick guards

Wearing out the big guy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Kobe doing (too much) work

Forgetting the 7-footer

They can't check quick guards

Wearing out the big guy


Solid - but did he come to these points via his stats or by actually watching the games?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject:

slippy wrote:
Quote:
Kobe doing (too much) work

Forgetting the 7-footer

They can't check quick guards

Wearing out the big guy


Solid - but did he come to these points via his stats or by actually watching the games?


He was at the game. Not a mention of PER or his rankings in the article. He mentions some stats, quotes Phil, and wrote about Pau not getting the ball enough when he was matched up against Thabeet during the fourth quarter. Pretty basic stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
Tick wrote:
Hollinger is the one in panic mode. He bet the farm on Miami this year.


True, but I'll be damned if he didn't have the Lakers number... I've already sent him an e-mail apology for slamming his (bleep)...



you emailed hollinger and apologized to him? wow.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Hollinger: Is it panic time for the Lakers?

BobbyJ wrote:
Hollinger has a new article out today on ESPN Insider. I am curious what he has to say. If anybody subscribes to ESPN insider could you please post what he says in this thread. Thanks!

Quote:
MEMPHIS -- I guess we better hit the panic button. A preseason championship contender has lost three straight and five of its past 10 games, including a loss at the buzzer in Memphis, a home loss to Indiana, and a big blown lead against Utah.




Bobby-

the problem with posting the first paragraph of an article you are unable to access is that it can be completely misleading (unintentionally so, but misleading none the less).


Hollinger for once is the voice of reason, perhaps not coincidentally b/c he was at the game watching it instead of reading his computer printouts.


These are the next few paragraphs after the snippet you posted, and they are completely different in tone and intent from his "hook 'em early by being ironic and clever" intro:


Only this isn't Miami we're talking about -- it's the Los Angeles Lakers. And you'll forgive them if they're not exactly flustered by the recent mini-slide, even though they've betrayed some bad habits in the process. Suffice it to say nobody is wondering whether Mitch Kupchak will replace Phil Jackson.

With good reason. Unlike the Heat, the Lakers have been in all 18 games they've played this year, with their greatest defeat coming by a meager six points. Even on Tuesday night, with as many mistakes as they made, they had a chance to win at the buzzer, and lost largely because the Grizzlies were an unsustainable 8-of-12 on 3-pointers.

Throw in injuries to Andrew Bynum and Theo Ratliff and the inevitable grind of the far-flung Western Conference schedule (this trip, for instance, is basically a cross-country jaunt just for a Memphis-Houston back-to-back before returning to Cali on Thursday), and one can understand how L.A. has struggled to maintain the momentum from its 8-0 start.




Like I said, he's being the voice of reason here, especially compared to some of the people on LG. (You know there's a lot of people in panic mode when Simmons and Hollinger are the voices of reason on LG.)



Hollinger goes on to list what is wrong with LA at the moment, and nails it (for once) accurately and concisely:


Kobe shooting too much (and even there Hollinger acknowledges the chicken vs egg aspect of Kobe's take-over instincts vs the team's lack of energy)


Pau not getting enough touches


Quick PGs tearing up Lakers D


Pau getting worn down by the minutes




I am no fan of Hollinger, but he was right on today, although the article was completely different than the tone of the lead-in paragraph. All you do by posting a paragraph like that is get a bunch of people riled up for no reason since it's not reflective at all of the article. I would say that next time you want to read an insider article just ask if anyone can post it without including their lead-in.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Hollinger: Is it panic time for the Lakers?

babyskyhook wrote:
BobbyJ wrote:
Hollinger has a new article out today on ESPN Insider. I am curious what he has to say. If anybody subscribes to ESPN insider could you please post what he says in this thread. Thanks!

Quote:
MEMPHIS -- I guess we better hit the panic button. A preseason championship contender has lost three straight and five of its past 10 games, including a loss at the buzzer in Memphis, a home loss to Indiana, and a big blown lead against Utah.




Bobby-

the problem with posting the first paragraph of an article you are unable to access is that it can be completely misleading (unintentionally so, but misleading none the less).


Hollinger for once is the voice of reason, perhaps not coincidentally b/c he was at the game watching it instead of reading his computer printouts.


These are the next few paragraphs after the snippet you posted, and they are completely different in tone and intent from his "hook 'em early by being ironic and clever" intro:


Only this isn't Miami we're talking about -- it's the Los Angeles Lakers. And you'll forgive them if they're not exactly flustered by the recent mini-slide, even though they've betrayed some bad habits in the process. Suffice it to say nobody is wondering whether Mitch Kupchak will replace Phil Jackson.

With good reason. Unlike the Heat, the Lakers have been in all 18 games they've played this year, with their greatest defeat coming by a meager six points. Even on Tuesday night, with as many mistakes as they made, they had a chance to win at the buzzer, and lost largely because the Grizzlies were an unsustainable 8-of-12 on 3-pointers.

Throw in injuries to Andrew Bynum and Theo Ratliff and the inevitable grind of the far-flung Western Conference schedule (this trip, for instance, is basically a cross-country jaunt just for a Memphis-Houston back-to-back before returning to Cali on Thursday), and one can understand how L.A. has struggled to maintain the momentum from its 8-0 start.




Like I said, he's being the voice of reason here, especially compared to some of the people on LG. (You know there's a lot of people in panic mode when Simmons and Hollinger are the voices of reason on LG.)



Hollinger goes on to list what is wrong with LA at the moment, and nails it (for once) accurately and concisely:


Kobe shooting too much (and even there Hollinger acknowledges the chicken vs egg aspect of Kobe's take-over instincts vs the team's lack of energy)


Pau not getting enough touches


Quick PGs tearing up Lakers D


Pau getting worn down by the minutes




I am no fan of Hollinger, but he was right on today, although the article was completely different than the tone of the lead-in paragraph. All you do by posting a paragraph like that is get a bunch of people riled up for no reason since it's not reflective at all of the article. I would say that next time you want to read an insider article just ask if anyone can post it without including their lead-in.


Right on. Thanks for the clarification, man.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Hollinger: Is it panic time for the Lakers?

GoldenThroat wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
BobbyJ wrote:
Hollinger has a new article out today on ESPN Insider. I am curious what he has to say. If anybody subscribes to ESPN insider could you please post what he says in this thread. Thanks!

Quote:
MEMPHIS -- I guess we better hit the panic button. A preseason championship contender has lost three straight and five of its past 10 games, including a loss at the buzzer in Memphis, a home loss to Indiana, and a big blown lead against Utah.




Bobby-

the problem with posting the first paragraph of an article you are unable to access is that it can be completely misleading (unintentionally so, but misleading none the less).


Hollinger for once is the voice of reason, perhaps not coincidentally b/c he was at the game watching it instead of reading his computer printouts.


These are the next few paragraphs after the snippet you posted, and they are completely different in tone and intent from his "hook 'em early by being ironic and clever" intro:


Only this isn't Miami we're talking about -- it's the Los Angeles Lakers. And you'll forgive them if they're not exactly flustered by the recent mini-slide, even though they've betrayed some bad habits in the process. Suffice it to say nobody is wondering whether Mitch Kupchak will replace Phil Jackson.

With good reason. Unlike the Heat, the Lakers have been in all 18 games they've played this year, with their greatest defeat coming by a meager six points. Even on Tuesday night, with as many mistakes as they made, they had a chance to win at the buzzer, and lost largely because the Grizzlies were an unsustainable 8-of-12 on 3-pointers.

Throw in injuries to Andrew Bynum and Theo Ratliff and the inevitable grind of the far-flung Western Conference schedule (this trip, for instance, is basically a cross-country jaunt just for a Memphis-Houston back-to-back before returning to Cali on Thursday), and one can understand how L.A. has struggled to maintain the momentum from its 8-0 start.




Like I said, he's being the voice of reason here, especially compared to some of the people on LG. (You know there's a lot of people in panic mode when Simmons and Hollinger are the voices of reason on LG.)



Hollinger goes on to list what is wrong with LA at the moment, and nails it (for once) accurately and concisely:


Kobe shooting too much (and even there Hollinger acknowledges the chicken vs egg aspect of Kobe's take-over instincts vs the team's lack of energy)


Pau not getting enough touches


Quick PGs tearing up Lakers D


Pau getting worn down by the minutes




I am no fan of Hollinger, but he was right on today, although the article was completely different than the tone of the lead-in paragraph. All you do by posting a paragraph like that is get a bunch of people riled up for no reason since it's not reflective at all of the article. I would say that next time you want to read an insider article just ask if anyone can post it without including their lead-in.


Right on. Thanks for the clarification, man.



No worries GT.

I saw your reaction, and I would have reacted the same way based on that one snippet.

Since I am a frequent Hollinger-basher based on his analyzing things in a faulty way, I thought I should stick up for him since he was actually looking at things in a bigger, "stats are only part of the story" method that I always say he should be using.


I wonder if there's a full moon tonight ? Something's clearly in the air.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:03 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Tick wrote:
Hollinger is the one in panic mode. He bet the farm on Miami this year.


Exactly. If you read that snippet, he's drawing a parallel between Miami and the Lakers.

I don't think that Miami should be in panic mode, but comparing their circumstances to the Lakers is incredibly specious. The Lakers have won back-to-back titles with their current core. There's precedent for this with this team. Miami? Not so much.

He's been noticeably quiet about Miami over the last couple of weeks, but now he has his angle, so he writes about them under the guise of a Laker article. He's the worst kind of statistician or scientist...someone who's so married to their preconceived notions that they find the evidence that supports their hypothesis instead of letting it determine their conclusion.


And if you read the article you'd see he quickly downplays the notion of panicking.

A rather salient point he makes is that the Lakers haven't scored over 100 points in the past three games. And two of those games were against the Pacers and Grizzlies--not exactly defensive juggernauts. I don't think it's a coincidence that our former #1 offensive TEAM in the NBA has devolved to the Kobe Bryant Show.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Tick wrote:
Hollinger is the one in panic mode. He bet the farm on Miami this year.


Exactly. If you read that snippet, he's drawing a parallel between Miami and the Lakers.

I don't think that Miami should be in panic mode, but comparing their circumstances to the Lakers is incredibly specious. The Lakers have won back-to-back titles with their current core. There's precedent for this with this team. Miami? Not so much.

He's been noticeably quiet about Miami over the last couple of weeks, but now he has his angle, so he writes about them under the guise of a Laker article. He's the worst kind of statistician or scientist...someone who's so married to their preconceived notions that they find the evidence that supports their hypothesis instead of letting it determine their conclusion.


And if you read the article you'd see he quickly downplays the notion of panicking.

A rather salient point he makes is that the Lakers haven't scored over 100 points in the past three games. And two of those games were against the Pacers and Grizzlies--not exactly defensive juggernauts. I don't think it's a coincidence that our former #1 offensive TEAM in the NBA has devolved to the Kobe Bryant Show.


I don't pay money for Insider, which is why I thanked babyskyhook for the clarification. I assumed that this article was similar to many others that he's written over the years, and I was incorrect. And I acknowledged it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject:

I still say we are losing because of bad defence
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject:

Hollinger doesn't like the Lakers, and he HATES Kobe. That's a fact. Any person with that kind of bias, can never be reasonable. He can't even FAKE reasonableness without revealing it. The difference between him and Simmons, is that Simmons doesn't really care if anyone knows he hates the Lakers because he has the perfect out....he's a Boston fan. "Oh you're Boston fan? Ah! That's explains it!" Simmons hides his hate like a coward behind the Boston justification.

Hollinger is little more insidious than Simmons. He hates the fact that Kobe is carrying the team to what will probably be a 4th consecutive final appearance. Any chance he gets to depreciate Kobe, he will do it...even in a backhanded kind of way. Let me straighten Hollinger out for you guys before you heap any "reasonable" praise on him.

1) Mr Stat guy failed to mention the BENCH! When the Killer B's match the output of our opponents bench we win nearly every game. When the Killer B's don't match our opponents bench we struggle. The first two games of this "slide" as he prefers to call it, our Bench was outplayed. Thank you for failing to mention the "obvious" Mr Hollinger.

2) Pau doesn't get enough touches. This proves to me that he's a pure Kobe hating nose picker. Because Pau gets plenty of touches, he just doesn't take the shot. Pau passes up on shots, to my consternation. Does all of pau touches show up as shot attempts? No. In fact, most of them don't, and the only way you notice it without bias is to watch the game. Hollinger might have been at that game, but was he watching it?

3) Pau's getting worn out. No kidding! He's logging a lot of minutes. But defense isn't about minutes, it's about hustle. This is where Hollinger isn't even clued into his own contradiction. Pau isn't getting enough touches, but yet he's worn out? Worn out from what? Not getting enough touches Mr Hollinger? Why would you want a worn out player getting a lot of touches Mr Hollinger? Kobe is posting up more so that Pau doesn't have to, but that doesn't excuse Pau of getting a beat down defensively.

4) Kobe takes too many shots. Who would he rather take the shot?

5) PG beat us. Yeah we know, it's been that way for 11 years now? Lakers do two things with PG's, turn them into outside shooters, or funnel them into the defense. When the interior defense isn't there we end up funneling them into a layup. They're blowing by not only Fisher, but our Center too..and who's playing center right now? That's right Pau.

Thank you Mr Hollinger. Do us all a favor, and stick to making excuses for Miami. That's where your REAL entertainment value resides on ESPN.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Tick wrote:
Hollinger is the one in panic mode. He bet the farm on Miami this year.


Exactly. If you read that snippet, he's drawing a parallel between Miami and the Lakers.

I don't think that Miami should be in panic mode, but comparing their circumstances to the Lakers is incredibly specious. The Lakers have won back-to-back titles with their current core. There's precedent for this with this team. Miami? Not so much.

He's been noticeably quiet about Miami over the last couple of weeks, but now he has his angle, so he writes about them under the guise of a Laker article. He's the worst kind of statistician or scientist...someone who's so married to their preconceived notions that they find the evidence that supports their hypothesis instead of letting it determine their conclusion.


And if you read the article you'd see he quickly downplays the notion of panicking.

I don't think it's a coincidence that our former #1 offensive TEAM in the NBA has devolved to the Kobe Bryant Show.

Yeah I'm sure Pau's struggles and Barnes,Brown, the bench coming back down to earth has nothing to do with the dip in offense. It's all Kobe's fault right? What a joke.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject:

LOL!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject:

Tick wrote:
Hollinger doesn't like the Lakers, and he HATES Kobe. That's a fact. Any person with that kind of bias, can never be reasonable. He can't even FAKE reasonableness without revealing it. The difference between him and Simmons, is that Simmons doesn't really care if anyone knows he hates the Lakers because he has the perfect out....he's a Boston fan. "Oh you're Boston fan? Ah! That's explains it!" Simmons hides his hate like a coward behind the Boston justification.

Hollinger is little more insidious than Simmons. He hates the fact that Kobe is carrying the team to what will probably be a 4th consecutive final appearance. Any chance he gets to depreciate Kobe, he will do it...even in a backhanded kind of way. Let me straighten Hollinger out for you guys before you heap any "reasonable" praise on him.

1) Mr Stat guy failed to mention the BENCH! When the Killer B's match the output of our opponents bench we win nearly every game. When the Killer B's don't match our opponents bench we struggle. The first two games of this "slide" as he prefers to call it, our Bench was outplayed. Thank you for failing to mention the "obvious" Mr Hollinger.

2) Pau doesn't get enough touches. This proves to me that he's a pure Kobe hating nose picker. Because Pau gets plenty of touches, he just doesn't take the shot. Pau passes up on shots, to my consternation. Does all of pau touches show up as shot attempts? No. In fact, most of them don't, and the only way you notice it without bias is to watch the game. Hollinger might have been at that game, but was he watching it?

3) Pau's getting worn out. No kidding! He's logging a lot of minutes. But defense isn't about minutes, it's about hustle. This is where Hollinger isn't even clued into his own contradiction. Pau isn't getting enough touches, but yet he's worn out? Worn out from what? Not getting enough touches Mr Hollinger? Why would you want a worn out player getting a lot of touches Mr Hollinger? Kobe is posting up more so that Pau doesn't have to, but that doesn't excuse Pau of getting a beat down defensively.

4) Kobe takes too many shots. Who would he rather take the shot?

5) PG beat us. Yeah we know, it's been that way for 11 years now? Lakers do two things with PG's, turn them into outside shooters, or funnel them into the defense. When the interior defense isn't there we end up funneling them into a layup. They're blowing by not only Fisher, but our Center too..and who's playing center right now? That's right Pau.

Thank you Mr Hollinger. Do us all a favor, and stick to making excuses for Miami. That's where your REAL entertainment value resides on ESPN.

Thank you for pointing this out! You are spot on about everything. People are so easily duped. Many in the media is looking for away to take the shine from Kobe and even using him as a scape goat for Lebron. I was watching NBATV the Beat last night and that clown Sagler made something up about Kobe to defend Lebron. This junk is outrageous!
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