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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32754
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 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Marbury, Francis...they're everything what's wrong with the PG position nowadays but could they work in the triangle offense? |
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| 62 wrote: | Think about it. I think Orlando and New York want to get rid of Francis and Marbury like nobodys bussines.
While they're obviously very talented, they're undersized as SG's and they don't have a pass first mentality that a PG should have...
However, triangle is different.
If we ever want to get rid of our "initiator" who ain't really initiating anything, how about Francis or Marbury?
Do you think those two are disaster waiting to happen in the triangle offense or you think it could work?
The thing about those two is that both can be a legit 2nd option which is something that Odom can't be.
BUT...could they be succesful initiators on a team with Kobe Bryant....or are both of them a lost cause? |
Reality check: After exhaustively dissecting the Lamar's game, you're trying to tell us that Francis and Marbury have flaws so insignificant that they can be solutions??? |
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Showtime_Returns
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 1730
Location: Somewhere looking for a magic wand
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Francis would definately work with Kobe. Like someone said game recognize game. He could easily put up 20,6,6. Marbury umm. not so sure. His defence is poor and he has one of the worst on court demeanors about him. Marbury would work on a team with Kobe AND Lamar if he could get away with scoring and not playing defence. |
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Ank
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| What does Francis contract look like? I think that losing Odom for him would be disastrous. We need the rebounding. If Francis' trade value is really that low, could we get him for George + Smush + pick or something like that? Would we still have enough in 2007 for one max contract? |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| For those of you who cringe at Lamar's deficiencies as a point forward, you'll be on suicide watch if Stevie Franchise ever ran the point for the Lakers. I can't think of a less court-aware PG, armed with a very low basketball IQ. Marbury should know better, but doesn't. Stevie on the other hand just doesn't have it... |
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And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | vicman wrote: | | i think if coached and controlled that francis would be perfect for this team. i think if anyone could do it that phil would be able to. this kid is super talented and could be a great defender. he has all the tools to be. i have seen that guy play since his days at Maryland and he is just a freak of an athlete. I would not want to give odom up for him but if we could get him without giving up odom i would do it. |
Interesting.
I think myself and Jam had the same thought.
Imagine Francis as the 2nd option and with the green light to be a scorer off the ball?
That with Odom running the point. We would have to stop worrying about Odom's scoring and just allow Francis and Bryant to do their thing.
The problem is that Francis' K is pretty long. Kills any chance at 2007 capspace. |
Though I will try not to make the same mistake as before (attributing something to you that might not be the case), I will still try to make the same arguement:
Simply put, YOU DON'T WANT TO TRADE LAMAR ODOM FOR ANYBODY (almost)
Here are a couple of things that you've said in this thread:
| Quote: | | Francis can not be relied upon as the team's point guard. |
Why not? What are you basing this on? Is it just because he's a legit 20 ppg player? It can't be because of the # of shots he takes in a game. For his career, he averages less than 16 shots per. Most on this board would love it if LO were that aggressive. I mean, I will agree with you that I envision him (Francis) as more of a SG, but I had the same thoughts about Ron Harper. Do you forget that when Harp was with the Cavs and Clips, he had several seasons where he almost averaged 20 ppg? Phil Jackson can develop him as a facilitator, but no chance with Francis?
| Quote: | Imagine Francis as the 2nd option and with the green light to be a scorer off the ball?
That with Odom running the point. |
Why do you still envision Lamar running the point? Have you not seen enough to determine that he's not cut out to run this offense? Didn't you advocate moving Odom to PF yesterday? And though you say that Francis is more suited to play SG, he carries a career average of over 6 apg with a career high (7 apg) that was set just last season. Lamar? He's never even averaged 6 assists in any year. This is despite being in an offense that was thought by many to be tailored-made for him to distribute.
| Quote: | | We would have to stop worrying about Odom's scoring and just allow Francis and Bryant to do their thing. |
Well, if you're not counting on Lamar to score, Why is he even needed on the team
Defense (be it at SF or PF)? 
Rebounding? OK. Cool.
For his career, Lamar Odom averages 8.3 rebounds a game. Francis gives you 6.1. I'll gladly give up the two boards if it results in:
A) More points;
B) A player that defenses will have to respect;
C) A better defender at the point than the incumbent;
D) A better 3-pt shooter;
E) Someone who gets to the FT line more (Francis 6.3 FTA/gm, Lamar only 4.9); and,
F) A smarter player.
And finally, let me go back to this:
| Quote: | | We would have to stop worrying about Odom's scoring and just allow Francis and Bryant to do their thing. |
If Lamar is not to be counted upon to score. And he can't defend SF's. Why not just resign Devean George to a reasonable contract. He's a better defender than Lamar and is more versatile offensively?
I know, I know.
You love Lamar. |
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BigEvil
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1755
Location: Whittier
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think Francis' position (I'm not even gonna' touch on Marbury) with the Lakers would be a moot point because there is no PG in the triangle really. In the end it would be Odom and Francis (assuming Lakers were able to keep Odom) and occasionally Kobe splitting up the facilitation.
I agree that he could perhaps be made into a more team friendly player. Defense would be the key for me. If he was willing to just get after it, just put the effort into it like Sasha's been doing, he could be pretty good.
But to keep Odom (which is something I would insist on despite all teh hate thrown his way), what could L.A. possibly give up that Orlando would bite on?
Just to get the salary to match it would have to be something like George, Slava, McKie, and Cook for Francis. That's a lot of crap to throw around for one player. |
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