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MrLaker83
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 Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| good read eric! |
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Kwame54Brown
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| thxx |
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LakerLove
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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you jinxed them!  |
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RedSnapper
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:18 am Post subject: Thanks |
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That was a nice read, Eric, but  wow, quite an ironic title after the following the dismantling of the Knicks with a complete disintigration at the hands of Indiana's second and third teamers.
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And 1
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | thx guys for the feedback.
1) My sense is that he thinks Odom still has a well of untapped potential that is just being cultivated.
2) Same
3) Not obviously - but the information as it hits me is not necessarily either party's innermost thoughts - but how they want to spin things true or false.
4) KG, TMac, LeBron - not sure on Bosh - of course unavailable guys like Amare, etc.
5) Actually yes I do buy that they're RELATIVELY happy with Lamar's play - certainly a LOT more than the fans are. |
I get what you're saying.
But, OTOH, it's very difficult for me to believe that they (Kupchak / Buss') don't see the problems Odom is experiencing (not just this season, but prior as well). They are the kind of problems that aren't easily "fixed" with patience. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | emplay wrote: | thx guys for the feedback.
1) My sense is that he thinks Odom still has a well of untapped potential that is just being cultivated.
2) Same
3) Not obviously - but the information as it hits me is not necessarily either party's innermost thoughts - but how they want to spin things true or false.
4) KG, TMac, LeBron - not sure on Bosh - of course unavailable guys like Amare, etc.
5) Actually yes I do buy that they're RELATIVELY happy with Lamar's play - certainly a LOT more than the fans are. |
I get what you're saying.
But, OTOH, it's very difficult for me to believe that they (Kupchak / Buss') don't see the problems Odom is experiencing (not just this season, but prior as well). They are the kind of problems that aren't easily "fixed" with patience. |
Lakers are trying to shop LO now. Its all under the radar. Why else do you think he has gone further into a shell. He went from getting quality back to being a salary dump. For what its worth. We will get a high priced last year or 2nd to last year guy back. Let me add this "IMO"
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RG73
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | thx guys for the feedback.
1) My sense is that he thinks Odom still has a well of untapped potential that is just being cultivated.
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7 year vets rarely have a well of untapped potential.
The old man has lost his mind.
| Quote: | | 3) Not obviously - but the information as it hits me is not necessarily either party's innermost thoughts - but how they want to spin things true or false. |
They've both been smoking the same stuff as Lamar.
| Quote: | | 4) KG, TMac, LeBron - not sure on Bosh - of course unavailable guys like Amare, etc. |
And then they dropped the acid with Bill and Luke.
| Quote: | | 5) Actually yes I do buy that they're RELATIVELY happy with Lamar's play - certainly a LOT more than the fans are. |
And then they never came off their trip and have fully lost their minds to permanent hallucinatory delusions wherein they somehow imagine Lamar has transformed into Magic.
Sad. |
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And 1
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | emplay wrote: | thx guys for the feedback.
1) My sense is that he thinks Odom still has a well of untapped potential that is just being cultivated.
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7 year vets rarely have a well of untapped potential.
The old man has lost his mind.
| Quote: | | 3) Not obviously - but the information as it hits me is not necessarily either party's innermost thoughts - but how they want to spin things true or false. |
They've both been smoking the same stuff as Lamar.
| Quote: | | 4) KG, TMac, LeBron - not sure on Bosh - of course unavailable guys like Amare, etc. |
And then they dropped the acid with Bill and Luke.
| Quote: | | 5) Actually yes I do buy that they're RELATIVELY happy with Lamar's play - certainly a LOT more than the fans are. |
And then they never came off their trip and have fully lost their minds to permanent hallucinatory delusions wherein they somehow imagine Lamar has transformed into Magic.
Sad. |
This is why I don't buy the "Lakers aren't shopping Lamar" talk that's being reported by emplay.
They (Kupchak / Buss') can't be blind to what's going on. They just don't want anything to leak out which might send LO over the cliff and looking for his "hook-up." Just keep it together for a little while longer, Lamar. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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They like Lamar because he's unselfish and thinks team first.
They don't worry about points, because they know sooner than later, they will have money and a wide open max slot to aquire a very good 2nd option.
Finally, the target is 44 wins. That's what Phil said he thinks this team should win this season.
Nothing that's happenned so far, has changed that. They are on course for that kind of win total.
Lamar may not be "shopped" but he is very tradable. There's a big difference in being untradable and not being shopped. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | They like Lamar because he's unselfish and thinks team first.
They don't worry about points, because they know sooner than later, they will have money and a wide open max slot to aquire a very good 2nd option.
Finally, the target is 44 wins. That's what Phil said he thinks this team should win this season.
Nothing that's happenned so far, has changed that. They are on course for that kind of win total.
Lamar may not be "shopped" but he is very tradable. There's a big difference in being untradable and not being shopped. |
Buss is about one thing PAYING players to win rings. He is paying LO how much? For what? hes gone. If hes not it is not because lack of trying. Just remember where you heard it first.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | They like Lamar because he's unselfish and thinks team first.
They don't worry about points, because they know sooner than later, they will have money and a wide open max slot to aquire a very good 2nd option.
Finally, the target is 44 wins. That's what Phil said he thinks this team should win this season.
Nothing that's happenned so far, has changed that. They are on course for that kind of win total.
Lamar may not be "shopped" but he is very tradable. There's a big difference in being untradable and not being shopped. |
Buss is about one thing PAYING players to win rings. He is paying LO how much? For what? hes gone. If hes not it is not because lack of trying. Just remember where you heard it first. |
So I guess he isn't paying Kobe anything either?
He pays everyone on his roster. The one's he doesn't want to pay get traded. |
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emplay
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Except the Lakers ARE winning - at a rate of 60+% since November. They lose about 4 out of every ten - that's a 50-win rate.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Except the Lakers ARE winning - at a rate of 60+% since November. They lose about 4 out of every ten - that's a 50-win rate. |
More importantly - the target is 44 wins.
At half way mark the Lakers were 22-19. It would be a dissapointment if they didn't improve on that considering Phil Jackson teams get better as the season progresses.
So one would think, they could realistically win 1-2 more games than expected (44)
If they are on pace to be where they expect to be - It makes very little sense to break up the team's core unless it's for a marquee player.
And I'm certain that if a marquee player becomes avaliable, LO will be offered in a package immediately. |
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emplay
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Wolf - you've hit the nail on the head in the above post. The Lakers aren't looking to move Odom because it would be a major change to the structure of how this team is built - a team that is on pace to hit the team's win-target and likely make it to the playoffs.
It doesn't mean the Lakers wouldn't move Odom - but it'd have to be for a stellar piece.
Now beyond this season - that's a different story - if the Lakers can find the right combination of players in - an initator and a scorer, etc.
This season - very unlikely.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | It doesn't mean the Lakers wouldn't move Odom - but it'd have to be for a stellar piece.
Now beyond this season - that's a different story - if the Lakers can find the right combination of players in - an initator and a scorer, etc.
This season - very unlikely. |
This is exactly my thinking.
I would LOVE if Odom got dealt now. It would mean we got an impact player.
But the reality is, Phil Jackson made a commitment to this team and re-building. And when he signed on, he knew the likelihood was that he'd be coaching Lamar Odom for a good period of time. He has never been one to just dump a player mid-season or mid-way through something he's decided to accomplish.
When I hear Phil talk, I really think he believes he can turn this team into a contender within 1-2 years.
But it's a step by step process.
Year 1 is 44 wins and the playoffs (maybe a suprise 2nd round appearance)
Year 2 could be 50 wins and 2nd round appearance target through improvement of the core players from year 1 (maybe 1-2 small yet important aquisitions)
Year 3 - Well that's the magic season IMO. That's the one they all hope they can position the Lakers into contendership and Phil can maybe go out with that elusive 10th ring. |
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RG73
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | They like Lamar because he's unselfish and thinks team first. |
Lamar has yet to prove that he thinks. Literally. I'm not exaggerating.
| Quote: | | They don't worry about points |
They ought to because games are won by points.
| Quote: | | because they know sooner than later, they will have money and a wide open max slot to aquire a very good 2nd option. |
Right. We've been over this. Never in history has an all-star player turned down more money. We cannot offer more money except in some unusual case where a team doesn't want to max out a player (Lewis, for instance, might be available because Seattle might not max him, especially given the team might be sold). So, no, second option in free agency isn't an option in 2007. 2008, the pickings are better. Kobe's knees won't be.
| Quote: | | Finally, the target is 44 wins. That's what Phil said he thinks this team should win this season. |
I think Phil said that his first season here. You know damn well that Phil says a lot of things without meaning the actual thing he's saying. He's a sly one like that.
| Quote: | | Nothing that's happenned so far, has changed that. They are on course for that kind of win total. |
They were on course for that last season too. Then they had injuries. Since they did nothing to address the depth or talent issue, injuries will have the same effect. The team is totally dependent on Kobe being healthy 75+ games this year. They don't have a Caron to step in and score 20 if Kobe goes down, or Lamar goes down. Nor a Chucky even. In that sense, the team is worse than last year (while recently being barely better defensively--using the last 15 games or so as a measure). |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Lamar has yet to prove that he thinks. Literally. I'm not exaggerating |
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Oh he thinks, RG. He may confuse himself and make bad decisions but he does think team first.
Just like Luke Walton - who messes up a lot too.
| Quote: | | They ought to because games are won by points |
Well I meant not JUST points.
More important is how those points are scored.
| Quote: | | Right. We've been over this. Never in history has an all-star player turned down more money. We cannot offer more money except in some unusual case where a team doesn't want to max out a player (Lewis, for instance, might be available because Seattle might not max him, especially given the team might be sold). So, no, second option in free agency isn't an option in 2007. 2008, the pickings are better. Kobe's knees won't be. |
Ummm, that's incorrect.
T-Mac got a max offer from the Raptors but FORCED a deal to Orlando. The Raps offered T-Mac the same amount the Magic did. However since he wanted out of TO and VC's shadow so bad, he forced their hand.
FA's have more power than you are giving them credit for.
| Quote: | | I think Phil said that his first season here. You know damn well that Phil says a lot of things without meaning the actual thing he's saying. He's a sly one like that |
No, he said a championship was unrealistic the first season because the Tri takes two. Had it not been for a Portland choke job in game 7, he was probably right. He never put a limit on games.
Here, he said the Lakers should win 10 more games than last season.
The primary goal is playoffs. Next year they will think about contending if they accomplish the primary goal this season.
| Quote: | | They were on course for that last season too. Then they had injuries. Since they did nothing to address the depth or talent issue, injuries will have the same effect. The team is totally dependent on Kobe being healthy 75+ games this year. They don't have a Caron to step in and score 20 if Kobe goes down, or Lamar goes down. Nor a Chucky even. In that sense, the team is worse than last year (while recently being barely better defensively--using the last 15 games or so as a measure). |
First - The schedule is much more favourable this year than last.
Second - Kobe didn't go out last season when they faltered. It was LO that got injured along with Chris Mihm.
The most important reason they faltered last season was no head coach (meaning no leader)
It's a step by step thing. First you look to make the playoffs then you think about contending.
Right now, they are on course for Goal#1. Which is why they aren't panicing. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Emplay and WolfPacker
Glad to hear an informative discourse on the current course of the Lakers. This edition of the team are displaying the signs of a very young team - extreme highs and lows.
This year is seemingly more of an analysis on LO's drive/will/mental capacity. If LO is the initiator/2nd option (cough cough cough), it is his job to get the ball to the other players to score - whether it is layups or clean looks. If that is not happening and Kobe is having one of his rare slightly off days, will LO's Basketball IQ take over and make him recognize that he will have to get even more aggressive?!?!
Hence the question:
Have we seen LO's Magic Johnson-described "High Basketball IQ" seen in
** Getting the ball at the right time and place for the other players to actually score
** Recognizing where the mismatches are at and getting the ball to these players
** Knowing when to get aggressive and SCORE
** Knowing how to defend other players by knowing their tendencies and forcing the offensive players into the Lakers' traps
** Recognizing that within the triangle, there are still situations where 2 man games, pick & rolls/pops, etc. can work between himself and Kobe/Mihm/KBrown/etc. - especially since it has been seen with Smush and Mihm |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Getting the ball at the right time and place for the other players to actually score |
Well it depends.
When he's actually in the game and mentally in it - He does a good job of setting up teammates. I saw some very good plays with him passing to Mihm, Kwame, Kobe and Parker/Vujacic.
The problem with LO in this regard has been his mind (again). He takes himself out of games by getting frustrated and then totally forgets about what his role is and what's going on in the game.
At that point, he's useless.
It's all mental with LO. What's seperating him from being a 17/10/6 player consistently is his mentality. His inability to be a very good scorer is a skill problem though. He doesn't have a good jumper and in the Triangle you need a good jumper if you are a perimeter player. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
The problem with LO in this regard has been his mind (again). He takes himself out of games by getting frustrated and then totally forgets about what his role is and what's going on in the game.
At that point, he's useless.
It's all mental with LO. What's seperating him from being a 17/10/6 player consistently is his mentality. His inability to be a very good scorer is a skill problem though. He doesn't have a good jumper and in the Triangle you need a good jumper if you are a perimeter player. |
I agree
Many times I see him at the top of the key just watching the action while doing nothing.
I was hoping that he was playing the role of defending when the opposing team gets the ball. Alas, this was (most of the time) not true.
Maybe he was the "release person" just in case the offense gets bogged down - but when he gets the ball, he's not ready to shoot, drive or anything else.
Could one of the reasons why he's not driving towards the paint more often is that he is injuried and/or hesitant to have any kind of hard contact? Doesn't he know that 3-point shots is not the strong point of his game? It is not like there is a "Shaq" taking up all the space in the paint.
Shouldn't the initiator (lO) be held more responsible for getting players involved? |
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Mailman04
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: Emplay in no way is this directed at you |
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| I am just so sick of hearing and reading the Lakers won't make a trade this year. They will be lucky to make the playoffs with this roster and this is the Lakers, not the Clippers. To hell with the 2007 plan and get creative and make a trade. Others find a way to make a trade without many pieces to trade. If Buss is the nut who came up with this 2007 plan he needs to turn it back over to daddy. If it was Kupchak, then don't let the door hit him on the way out. Like I said, this isn't directed at Emplay because I agree with him, they won't make a trade. That just makes me sick. |
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