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loyola66
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Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 521
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 Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| remember earlier this season when we always would build up 10 pt leads and have trouble keeping them and lost a few games that way? id rather have that then these recent disgusting results |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| loyola66 wrote: | kwame=10 pts inconsistently (very)
butler and jurmaine= 30 pts consistently
I'd rather we run and gun and win games this way as we bring in our rookies and add different peices, and develop our defense as we go.
Anybody can play D, it's just a mindset, you'd think most players in the league can sink an open shot, well apparently most of the players on this team cant, and thats why i said what i said |
Butler and Jumaine averaged a combined 23 ppg, so saying that they gave a consistent 30ppg is dead wrong.
Add to that that neither one could defend a big and it makes it worse.
Kwame is far from consistent himself, but I do know that with both of those guys along with Chucky still on the team, Shaq would have killed this team, as would JO and any other big.
Run and gun doesn't do squat. It gets a team into the playoffs and then it gets them bounced just as fast.
Personally, I want this team to contend for rings. That doesn't happen with run and gun. |
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lakeshow03
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Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 3078
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| loyola66 wrote: | | remember earlier this season when we always would build up 10 pt leads and have trouble keeping them and lost a few games that way? id rather have that then these recent disgusting results |
an L is an L |
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magic_bryant
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Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | loyola66 wrote: | kwame=10 pts inconsistently (very)
butler and jurmaine= 30 pts consistently
I'd rather we run and gun and win games this way as we bring in our rookies and add different peices, and develop our defense as we go.
Anybody can play D, it's just a mindset, you'd think most players in the league can sink an open shot, well apparently most of the players on this team cant, and thats why i said what i said |
Butler and Jumaine averaged a combined 23 ppg, so saying that they gave a consistent 30ppg is dead wrong.
Add to that that neither one could defend a big and it makes it worse.
Kwame is far from consistent himself, but I do know that with both of those guys along with Chucky still on the team, Shaq would have killed this team, as would JO and any other big.
Run and gun doesn't do squat. It gets a team into the playoffs and then it gets them bounced just as fast.
Personally, I want this team to contend for rings. That doesn't happen with run and gun. |
Exactly.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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kobe_somebody_odom
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 1661
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:05 am Post subject: |
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Mangement could have created a much better roster even with the draft picks. They just made bad trades and horrible signings.
I think Phil could make a line-up of the following work
MLE Gaurd(mckie's contract)/Chucky/Sasha
Kobe/Smush/Wafer
Butler/George/JJ/
Odom/ MLE big (Vlade contract)/ Turiaf
Mihm/Bynum/Cook
I would still let Odom be facilitator and initiator on Offense and play 4 on defense. I think this 15 man roster could do well this season and cause some buzz in the WCF. Let Butler go at the end of the year or trade him before the deadline. I personally think the Kwame trade was worse than the Shaq trade. |
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LakersSpirit
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Losing, both, Caron Butler, and Jumaine Jones, was like paying $20.00, for a $2.00 hamburger... I cringed when we lost Caron, but I could almost understand, because we were in dire need of a decent bigman...
When we also lost Jumaine, I knew we were going to really regret it, later on... You just can't lose that much of your basic foundation. Jumaine proved that he could be more consistent, than some of our current players.
I don't know what kind of "halo" Devean George has around him, but he seemed like the most likely to be traded. We let Fish go, after he proved his "clutch", and 3 point shooting...   We couldn't afford to pay Fish a little more, but we went out and purchased Vlade's contract, and we got almost zilch in return... How much is left from the Shaq trade?? Yeah, there would seem to be something wrong with tis picture...
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LakersSpirit
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | loyola66 wrote: | kwame=10 pts inconsistently (very)
butler and jurmaine= 30 pts consistently
I'd rather we run and gun and win games this way as we bring in our rookies and add different peices, and develop our defense as we go.
Anybody can play D, it's just a mindset, you'd think most players in the league can sink an open shot, well apparently most of the players on this team cant, and thats why i said what i said |
Butler and Jumaine averaged a combined 23 ppg, so saying that they gave a consistent 30ppg is dead wrong.
Add to that that neither one could defend a big and it makes it worse.
Kwame is far from consistent himself, but I do know that with both of those guys along with Chucky still on the team, Shaq would have killed this team, as would JO and any other big.
Run and gun doesn't do squat. It gets a team into the playoffs and then it gets them bounced just as fast.
Personally, I want this team to contend for rings. That doesn't happen with run and gun. |
Just to play "devil's advocate": Jumaine sure wasn't beating us, with "run-and-gun", the last time we played him... JJ was killing us with his long range stroke. Look at his stats... JJ also racks up quite a few steals, which is what Smush gives us, as a form of defense.
These remarks are coming from a Kwame Man...  I confess, I was lobbying for Kwame... I really thought Kwame was one of those "diamond's in the rough". I could almost agree with the pup... Kwame does, occasionally, display something, with those put-backs, and occasional drive and dunks... Like Odom, however, the mind just seems to fog up...
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12668
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:53 am Post subject: |
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If your judging by the talent, then we got raped. But there's more to it than that.
In the case of JJ and Kareem... Did we get face value? Probably. We did get Turiaf with that second round pick, who may prove useful. With JJ, it's going to be an early 2nd round pick, so we'll have to just wait and see. What gets lost in that scenario is that Kareem didn't fit in at all under Rudy T. He wasn't getting any play time and when he played, he played poorly. Phil didn't like JJ, he was going to get cut and we weren't going to get anything for him.
Chucky needed to go, and Caron was going to leave after this season. They were going to be traded, and he took a gamble on Kwame. Right now it looks like it was a bad move, but only time will tell in the longrun. Caron and Chucky would have been traded this season, regardless.
In all cases the question is not if we should have traded them, given the situations we should have traded them all. Could we have gotten more? I don't know. |
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angel
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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The Lakers needed to get rid of two SFs. They needed to add a C/F. Those don't come cheap. The relative production is generally lower in terms of numbers. The rarer comodity is the power player. Every team needs them. According to Tex Winter, you can't have too many good ones. Teams take years developing them. Chris Webber was a great PF. After being drafted, Webber was traded for Penny, who was a great SG plus 3 first round draft picks. The power players are rarer, so the value is much higher. People laugh at Penny now, but he was All-NBA first team twice in a row and an All-Star four consecutive times, before he was injured. The great big player is more valuable. Even good big players are not easy to obtain. The Nuggets were offerred 3 first round draft picks for Nene Hilario 10.7/6.2, but turned down the offer. Bigs that put up any numbers at all are at a premium. There is no substitute for size. Try putting Caron Butler on Tim Duncan. Duncan would eat him alive. Kwame does a decent job on Duncan. Mihm does a good job on Duncan. Size matters.
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12668
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| LakersSpirit wrote: | | I don't know what kind of "halo" Devean George has around him, but he seemed like the most likely to be traded. We let Fish go, after he proved his "clutch", and 3 point shooting... We couldn't afford to pay Fish a little more, but we went out and purchased Vlade's contract, and we got almost zilch in return... How much is left from the Shaq trade?? Yeah, there would seem to be something wrong with tis picture... |
I have to admit when we re-signed Devean it seemed like a good move. Fox had been our guy but he was aging quickly, Devean was a better player at that point and he was young and athletic. He proved to be too inconsistent and injury prone, but I liked the move.
Fisher got a nice conract, but he didn't leave because we weren't offering to match. He left because he wanted to be a starter and at the time he could be in Golden State (before they acquired Baron Davis). The Lakers at that time had Gary Payton, who had just exercised his second year option. He thought he would be on the bench again and he left very quickly. Rudy T called him and tried to talk him into staying but Fish didn't want to be a bench player again.
What do we have left of the Shaq trade? Well aside from B-Grants bloated contract lol... we have Odom, the biggest piece, a 1st round pick and Kwame Brown. Face value? Depends on how you look at it. Shaq is going downhill quickly but he's still probably more valuable than Odom + Kwame at this point. By next year though I bet hes a 15 and 8 center, he's a 19 and 9 on now. The most important aspect of the Shaq deal though was that we had to make a move quickly to ensure we kept Kobe and Shaq refused to sign with certain teams. Noone would trade for him if he was going to just walk away.
So it's easy to look back and say we made some bad moves. But you have to look at the context. It's easy to forget that many teams were hot for Kwame Brown, including the Pacers and the Grizzlies (Jerry West). It's too early to call him a flop just yet, but teams see his potential. We took a gamble. |
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angel
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Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: |
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If you ask Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, he will tell you Kwame is extremely talented. It's a matter of using his physical gifts effectively. Kwame has to learn the game and stay focused. This would be his first year out of college. He came out of H.S., because of financial need. In terms of his game, he would have been better served to develop his game in college, but he didn't have that luxury. Kareem, who knows what it is to be a Championship center in the NBA, says Kwame is making progress.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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Darkndeep
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2070
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Tony Montana wrote: | | Darkndeep wrote: | | Who would you trade, Tony, and what do you think the rest of the league would give up for them? None of this Smush for Ben Wallace stuff (although you seem more reasonable than that). |
First of all, I would be willing to trade anyone not named Kobe Bryant or Andrew Bynum (unless Bynum could help get me KG, then I would have to consider it; I think Bynum's upside potential is just scary; unfortunately he won't be a true help for awhile, but he's worth the wait).
I respect Odom's rebounding, and role in initiating the triangle offense, and all-around game. He is not a second option, however, so he is not untouchable, but I want some damn good value for him at the same time, so he is not going easily.
I would have dealt Luke before JJ. I would not have signed Aaron McKie; I knew he would be a physical liability, and have been proven right. Raja Bell would have been a much better choice. I would have traded for Diaw. Oh, wait, don't want to get into a Mitch bashing session of how we could ALREADY have been better and had some answers to this question. Yes, what can be done with this current mess?
-There are some expiring contracts the Lakers have, so there is some value for guys like Slava, George, etc; more value then they actually bring to the court....
-I wouldn't mind picking up a guy like Tony Delk. Probably can be had somewhat cheaply;
-Deng + Henrich for Lamar/filler?
-Sasha for a happy meal and a pack of Slim Jims, and a case of Diet Pepsi.
-Expiring contracts + Kwame Brown for Al Harrington (have no idea if this would be enough for Atlanta, or if salary matches; I don't go on realgm and do that sort of thing);
-George for Delfino?
-any deal that ditches Slava's expiring contract, sends Luke, Cook, and Sasha away (I know people argue for Cook, but I really hate the guy, but's that's another thread).
I'm sure there are plenty of people who can chime in with some ideas as well. I'll probably have some more tomorrow as well, but my brain is fried today... |
If you would have traded Luke over Jones at the time, you were in the minority. As it panned out, Luke's played much better this past year, but most posts I saw favored keeping Luke and his perceived potential over Jones (who is just a scorer) when the trade was made. Maybe I'm wrong: maybe you are an NBA scout and saw something the rest of us didn't.
McKie was a desperation signing, the third or fourth choice on the Lakers list. They weren't happy to have to sign him but took a shot on getting lightning (i.e., a return to his McKie's glory days) in a bottle. Raja Bell signed a five year deal for about $5 million per. He didn't fit into the 2007 plan. He's a shooting guard, anyway, not a PG--he wasn't an alternative to McKie. Why invest that much into a backup who wrecks the chance of getting a premier free agent at a position we really need down the road?
Lamar for Heinrich and Deng? It doesn't work under the cap, whether or not it's a good trade for us (and if it is, why would Chicago do it?)
Sasha for a Happy Meal? And you complain Mitch gives players away.
George for Delfino? I don't see the Pistons doing that.
Expiring contracts plus Kwame for Harrington? I can't see Atlanta doing that and if Kwame is as bad as you think he is, why do you think Atlanta would? Harrington is a hot commodity right now. I wouldn't do it, anyway, because I think Kwame will be worth more in the long run: he's a young big with potential, which is a rare commodity. I may be proven absolutely wrong on this, but I've seen improvement in Kwame's game this year and am willing to give him another year or two (which is the earliest we'll be challenging for a title, anyway)--unless we've got another sure-fire big lined up, and I don't see your trading plans bringing us one back.
I'd have no problem with the other trades you mention, but they aren't going to get us much. |
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Tony Montana
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Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 2962
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| I hate Sasha. I would take a pick in return for him; in other words, willing to take nothing. Addition by subtraction. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58334
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Vlade wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | twoface723 wrote: | | Yup, those were horrible trades. No doubt we have a worse roster than last year. |
That is flat out wrong. Last year the team had SFs filling too many positions. This year, we have Smush, who is much better defensively than Chucky and Kwame, who is much better defensively than anyone at the PF position last season. The team has been slumping defensively, but overall, they are giving a much better defensive effort. This roster is better balanced than last year's was. |
Can't argue with this post. |
Really? Honestly now, who wouldn't rather have Caron Butler than Kwame Brown? Who wouldn't rather have Jumaine Jones than a future 2nd rounder? Sure Smush is something of an upgrade over Chucky, but all in all, I think our actual roster had more talent last year.
This suggests that despite all of the demands for a trade (my own included) we might be better off not trading, considering we seem to always get the short end of the stick! |
Vlade, I was one of the biggest anti-Brown trade guys on here. I was bashed and called a Caron jocker who had no idea about basketball. Kwame was going to breakout here according to some
So I definitely know where you are coming from. But the fact is, Caron was expecting an extension. The Lakers were not going to give him an extension like that with the team just coming off a lottery season. Noway you invest so much in core players that have yet to shown that they can play at an elite level.
They also need a big body. The bigman Phil wanted was Kwame and he was the best body on the FA market. While in terms of player skill we got raped - we also have to take into account that we got 2 (potentially 3) year player for last years.
This team has to grow under Phil. Phil says guys need 2 years in the Tri. Caron would not have been able to be part of that 2 year process because of the impending FA status.
Again, we got raped in player skill. But we filled the need for a big body and at the same signed a player for longer than the players going out.
Edit note -
On Jumaine, it came down to Jones vs George. The Lakers didn't want to have a roster that was filled with SF's again. It wasn't JJ against any of our guards. It was JJ against George. Two last year players that would basically play the same role.
Phillip wanted George. Mitch was there when they drafted him, and considering that George has always been valued by the Lakers - they chose him.
And again, I was pro JJ over George in the debates on who's better. I said JJ was consistent and brought in every night. George was a very inconsistent scorer but a good defender.
BUT, DG has been good this season. He's still very inconsistent as a scorer, but he does step it up bigtime in big games. If the Lakers are in the playoffs, you better believe George's experience and ability to step it up will be valuable. |
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AirKobe8
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8586
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Butler > Odom
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wolfpaclaker
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Posts: 58334
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| AirKobe8 wrote: | | Butler > Odom |
Disagree.
Butler's a better scorer than Odom in the sense that he can put up points without really needing sets being called out for him. He also has very good hands that enable him to get steals.
But in terms of rebounding, playmaking, weakside shotblocking and even post up ability - Odom is better.
I rather have the extra 5 boards and 3 assists than the 3-4 more PPG Butler would've brought. |
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Freakout
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 11796
Location: WV
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | twoface723 wrote: | | Yup, those were horrible trades. No doubt we have a worse roster than last year. |
That is flat out wrong. Last year the team had SFs filling too many positions. This year, we have Smush, who is much better defensively than Chucky and Kwame, who is much better defensively than anyone at the PF position last season. The team has been slumping defensively, but overall, they are giving a much better defensive effort. This roster is better balanced than last year's was. |
Kwame's defense is good but nothing amazing. He's good at denying position and recovering but then again most NBA bigmen can do that. We've just got so many crappy players that one average defender stands out.
Smush CAN be a better defender but even he has given Chucky a run for his money over the last few weeks.
Then again isn't scoring part of balance as well? Defensively I can agree but offensively we are way worse. Kobe's went from 21 shots per to 27 because the team is so unbalanced compared to last season.
There is not a single guy on the team that could average 22ppg like Caron did the last couple of months of the season. Even as bad as Chucky was defensively he at least could create his own shot taking pressure off Kobe. |
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Freakout
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 11796
Location: WV
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | loyola66 wrote: | kwame=10 pts inconsistently (very)
butler and jurmaine= 30 pts consistently
I'd rather we run and gun and win games this way as we bring in our rookies and add different peices, and develop our defense as we go.
Anybody can play D, it's just a mindset, you'd think most players in the league can sink an open shot, well apparently most of the players on this team cant, and thats why i said what i said |
Butler and Jumaine averaged a combined 23 ppg, so saying that they gave a consistent 30ppg is dead wrong.
Add to that that neither one could defend a big and it makes it worse.
Kwame is far from consistent himself, but I do know that with both of those guys along with Chucky still on the team, Shaq would have killed this team, as would JO and any other big.
Run and gun doesn't do squat. It gets a team into the playoffs and then it gets them bounced just as fast.
Personally, I want this team to contend for rings. That doesn't happen with run and gun. |
That's why you spend the MLE on a average big instead of wasting it on a worn down Mckie. |
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thumpinghead
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Trades of the last year: did we give up too much talent? |
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| Endure 12 wrote: | Roughly over the last year since Kareem was traded was too much talent given up?
Essentially it's been;
Kareem Rush, Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Jumaine Jones
for
Kwame Brown, Laron Profit, Ronny Turiaf and 2 2nd round picks.
Now I'm not saying we should have kept these guys around (Maybe JJ) but we could have used them for trades better than the ones we used them in. Hindsight is 20-20 but these were some horrible trades. |
We miss Rush, he could hit a shot. Profit got hurt, what could anyone do? Playing with Atkins is like playing with a midget with a jumpshot. CB doesn't fit in the triangle and we needed a big body like Brown when Mihm gets hurt or into foul trouble and hes done well with D and rebouding so far, minus the Hornets game of course. We miss JJ too. Ronny Turiaf is going to be a winner though so, i don't know it might be a toss up. Nah, we could use JJ and Rush right now. |
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thumpinghead
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Tony Montana wrote: | | I hate Sasha. I would take a pick in return for him; in other words, willing to take nothing. Addition by subtraction. |
Tony stop the hate Mr. Montana. Sasha's got game. What is he 21? Imagine if he was playing as a Junior in College? Sasha has already gotten better, wait till next year when he's got senior status. |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Trades of the last year: did we give up too much talent? |
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| thumpinghead wrote: | | Endure 12 wrote: | Roughly over the last year since Kareem was traded was too much talent given up?
Essentially it's been;
Kareem Rush, Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Jumaine Jones
for
Kwame Brown, Laron Profit, Ronny Turiaf and 2 2nd round picks.
Now I'm not saying we should have kept these guys around (Maybe JJ) but we could have used them for trades better than the ones we used them in. Hindsight is 20-20 but these were some horrible trades. |
We miss Rush, he could hit a shot. Profit got hurt, what could anyone do? Playing with Atkins is like playing with a midget with a jumpshot. CB doesn't fit in the triangle and we needed a big body like Brown when Mihm gets hurt or into foul trouble and hes done well with D and rebouding so far, minus the Hornets game of course. We miss JJ too. Ronny Turiaf is going to be a winner though so, i don't know it might be a toss up. Nah, we could use JJ and Rush right now. |
I miss the Rush that shot 44% and played 72 games in his second season. I miss the player Rush was. I do not miss the chronically injured player the Lakers traded to Charlotte. Rush played 48 games last season. He shot 38.7% from the field last season. Rush has only played 27 games this season. He's only shooting 37.3% from the field this season. Yes, he gets 11.8ppg, but that is on 11.9fga. That is poor efficiency. Chronic injuries have taken their toll. Rush wasn't going to be the same player he was prior to his injuries. Rush was a good player when he was drafted, but he isn't the same player today.
Ronny Turiaf plus Charlotte's #2 pick in 2008 was a good deal. Kurt Rambis made comments after Ronny Turiaf was compared to him during the Summer. Some of you may not remember the hard working player Rambis used to be. He played hard every day. The fans loved him. He was energetic and inspirational. Rambis said Ronny Turiaf is a much better player than he was. Some mock drafts had Turiaf going anywhere from 20-30 in the first round. He's a PF who can score, but also plays defense. He plays very hard. The second round pick from the Bobcats figures to be a good one. They currently have the worst record in the NBA.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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AutoShackMotorSports
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 3008
Location: LakersGround.net
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you ask Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, he will tell you Kwame is extremely talented. It's a matter of using his physical gifts effectively. Kwame has to learn the game and stay focused. This would be his first year out of college. He came out of H.S., because of financial need. In terms of his game, he would have been better served to develop his game in college, but he didn't have that luxury. Kareem, who knows what it is to be a Championship center in the NBA, says Kwame is making progress. |
Yes that's true, he needs to get the jitters out of his system and learn some patience. He can get in scoring position most of the time down the court, just needs to back his man up and play aggressive in the offense, put the opposing bigs in foul trouble. Hey maybe they should switch Kwame to C and Mihm to PF? |
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angrypuppy
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Posts: 32752
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| What amazes me is the naiveté many posters have in terms of engineering a trade. You think you're going to package Caron Butler (at the end of his rookie contract no less) for a young big, who can immediately produce comparable scoring AND play defense? |
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raffi
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 9987
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | What amazes me is the naiveté many posters have in terms of engineering a trade. You think you're going to package Caron Butler (at the end of his rookie contract no less) for a young big, who can immediately produce comparable scoring AND play defense? |
So why trade for him in the first place if you had no intention of keeping him? Further, why trade for Grant if you had a high likelihood that he wouldn't play many minutes (as opposed to Eddie Jones - we had our choice of either one). Getting a big who can't/won't play doesn't justify moving more talented smalls. Trust me, Caron could have netted us Artest.
The reason why, of course, is because the organization is rudderless - they acquired players and contracts that didn't meet near/long term roster balance, needs, ability, cap space, etc.
Almost every move over the last 2 years has been reactionary, as opposed to being thoughtful and well-planned. At this point, they don't have a choice but to sit and wait - and hopefully land in the lottery. Only a miracle will correct this mess. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| raffi wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | What amazes me is the naiveté many posters have in terms of engineering a trade. You think you're going to package Caron Butler (at the end of his rookie contract no less) for a young big, who can immediately produce comparable scoring AND play defense? |
So why trade for him in the first place if you had no intention of keeping him? Further, why trade for Grant if you had a high likelihood that he wouldn't play many minutes (as opposed to Eddie Jones - we had our choice of either one). Getting a big who can't/won't play doesn't justify moving more talented smalls. Trust me, Caron could have netted us Artest.
The reason why, of course, is because the organization is rudderless - they acquired players and contracts that didn't meet near/long term roster balance, needs, ability, cap space, etc.
Almost every move over the last 2 years has been reactionary, as opposed to being thoughtful and well-planned. At this point, they don't have a choice but to sit and wait - and hopefully land in the lottery. Only a miracle will correct this mess. |
We will never know the "true" answer, but it looks like it was either ship Snaq or lose Kobe to the Clips. Reportedly, he was that close to signing.
I hated the trade, but understood the reasoning. What burned me most was that everyone was laughing at Riles signing (or trading for) bloated contracts, and we were the ones inheriting his mistakes.
But what was the alternative? Though we don't know what else was offered, it appears that threatening Snaq by not trading him would have led to Kobe wearing a Kool-aid colored uniform. |
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