|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
re4ee
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 12237
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LTD wrote: | | Quote: | | Another thing, you say the triangle is better executed without Kobe.. a point to consider is that usually the bench consists of George, Luke and Cook, three players who have triangle experience. Our starters don't. |
But let's be honest here, even when 2 or 3 of those guys are in the game with him, the offense bogs down. It will consists of making the initial pass, reversing the ball, and then Kobe gets the ball having been isolated on the weakside (he's usually out past the 3 point line). |
In a properly run, and efficient triangle, those three passes take 8-10 seconds, leaving time on the shot clock to do more. With this team, by the time the ball gets BACK to Kobe, there are typically less than 10 seconds on the clock. Slow execution, indecision, bad spacing (allowing quick double and triple teams) dictate a LOT of what Kobe can do, after getting the ball back.
| Quote: | Then, to make matters worse, over the last month and a half, he's fallen in love with the 3 again. Over the last 16 games, he's had SEVEN games where he's had double digit 3 point attempts and another 4 games where he's attempted 7 or more. That's outrageous.
Basically, I am in no way attempting to bash Kobe, but instead just to say while the guy has an incredible hoops IQ, he just makes the game much more difficult than he has to. There's no doubt in my mind that if he played more efficiently, that he would be averaging 40 points and shooting over 50% from the field.
This isn't to absolve any of his teammates from their play, but just to say that with regards to the triangle offense, Kobe isn't using it in the manner that is best for him, and to be quite honest, he's so stubborn, I'm not sure if he EVER will. Shaw and crew have repeatedly told him that he makes the game far more difficult than it has to be (in reference to his shot selection) and he consistently replies that he feels like if he can rise over his guy and see the rim, that he thinks it's a good look. Stubbornness makes him great, but it also keeps him from being as great as he can be. |
You do realize that each team has 5 players on the floor at any particular time, correct? How a scorer's game becomes more "efficient" is when his teammates are doing everything they can to keep proper spacing, make good decisions, and move the ball crisply. It is nearly impossible to be "efficient" when triple teamed, with the shot clock in single digits, nearly every time the ball comes back to you.
It's funny, actually, that the same fans who profess to want Kobe to involve his teammates more, judge Kobe as if he's playing all by himself, in a bubble. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Socks
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 10761
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LTD wrote: | psydesho, where did I say that kobe doesn't pass the ball?
| Quote: | | so it all comes down to do you want Kobe taking bad shots fully knowing they are bad shots, or do you want him passing the ball to bad shooters fully knowing they are bad shooters? It's like giving you the choice between hooking up with star jones or rosanne bar - you lose no matter what. |
Socks, what about adding in the option of just taking better shots? Personally, I have no problem with the number of shots that kobe takes. In fact, since LO has been out, I'm actually a bit perturbed that his number of shots has actually went down instead of going up. I guess my point is that sometimes he just takes shots that he simply doesn't have to take. The 3 pointer a good two steps behind the line? No need to take that. The long fallaway jumper after pumpfaking 3 times and the defender doesn't bite? No need to take that.
IMO, and again, this is just my opinion, he/we should allow the offense to set him up better, instead of basically the clearout play (where he's going to be doubled as soon as he catches the ball anyway). I think the day we run some form of a curl with Kobe (like Detroit does with Rip), I'll probably keel over from shock.
Again, I'm not saying that he isn't playing well. Like I stated earlier, we're talking about trying to improve an A- into an A+. |
I hear you LTD, and agree there are a lot of crazy shots he takes for no reason. While they drive me nuts also, I tend to try to rationalize these a bit. Kobe has to work so hard for his shots with 2 or 3 guys trying to guard him, that he'll take some plays off and just shoot that long 3 pointer instead of trying to work his way inside. A long fallaway instead of pushing to split the double team. It doesn't make it right, but as much as he looks like a god sometimes, it proves he's only human and prone to laziness. Like you, I'm a big fan and tend to give him a pass on these just because I feel for the guy having to carry such a heavy load and still putting in as much effort as he is. I agree...the team could do more to work to get him better shots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kobe is great playing the triangle, but there are several Lakers still learning. It would also be unrealistic to expect the Lakers to beat a good Hornets club on the road without Mihm or Odom.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
re4ee
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 12237
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LTD wrote: | | Quote: | | LTD, is it outrageous that kobe tries to win the games from threepoints line when we need a threepointer?... and when you know that every opponent is waiting for you -and only for you- in the paint, is it outrageous to shhot from outside?... by the way, in the recent games kobe scored 55 threes on 136, more than 40%... it makes 165 points on 136 attempts... is it so bad?... even tex winter says that kobe is stubborn, but he also says that kobe perfectly understands his system... |
It's outrageous because the SECOND we are down by 6 points or more, Kobe will go to launching the 3 pointers. It's like clockwork. It's like he's trying to get it all back on one possession.
As for the paint, who said anything about going all the way to the paint? That's the problem, the minutes someone brings up the amount of 3's, people chime in saying well he can't take it all the way to the rim. Did the midrange game become illegal in the NBA? That's when he's the dealiest IMO. He's killer from there, and then he'd actually get a few more handcheck calls.
Also, just because I'm a math guy, I have to point out that it's actually 142 attempts, which makes his average 38%. Still good no doubt, though.
But again for the record, I am IN NO WAY blaming the losses on Kobe. I'm simply talking about the triangle offense, his role in it, and how he personally could be more effective in it. It's like in school. Just because you make an A-minus doesn't mean you can't examine your test, and see what you could have done in order to make an A-plus. |
Either of which, you obviously have very limited understanding. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The last three games has more to do with the absense and injuries of Mihm and Odom than anything else.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LTD
Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 463
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Either of which, you obviously have very limited understanding. |
Care to elaborate old wise one? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ravelo wrote: | | Quote: | Near the end of the 2nd quarter, he drove the left lane, was shut off and passed around Smushes man to Smush in the corner for 3.
But, Kobe's passing skills are average. They get picked off a lot (teams play the passing lanes), and tend to be a little off the mark when he's being harrassed.
Kobe is best as a scorer not a passer. |
Your right! That 0.01% is when he absolutely cannot get a shot off!! But...would you agree with me that Kobe is not a good fit for the triangle?? |
Crack kills bro. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LTD
Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 463
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I hear you LTD, and agree there are a lot of crazy shots he takes for no reason. While they drive me nuts also, I tend to try to rationalize these a bit. Kobe has to work so hard for his shots with 2 or 3 guys trying to guard him, that he'll take some plays off and just shoot that long 3 pointer instead of trying to work his way inside. A long fallaway instead of pushing to split the double team. It doesn't make it right, but as much as he looks like a god sometimes, it proves he's only human and prone to laziness. Like you, I'm a big fan and tend to give him a pass on these just because I feel for the guy having to carry such a heavy load and still putting in as much effort as he is. I agree...the team could do more to work to get him better shots. |
I can definitely agree with that socks. Good points. Too bad that if you can understand what I'm saying then that must mean that you have little to no understanding of the triangle offense. LMAO |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cr8zy0
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 820
Location: Los Angeles & Philadelphia
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| B-Scott wrote: | actually sasha and George have had multipe oppurtunities from the 3 point line. Everytime the Lakers get in position to come back. They will be down by 6 or 7 points,Kobe will get double teamed,kick out to WIDE OPEN Sasha or George,and they Brick.
Had they made those big shots,Lakers would be within 3 points,and back in the game. Instead they CLANK,NO gets the rebound,Lakers down by 9 again.
The Chicago Bulls had guys who could shoot Bj armsrong John paxon Steve kerr,Toni Kukok. So if you doubled MJ,they would make you pay.Results- MJ had more 1 on 1 chances |
we shouldn't be shooting so many 3's anyways. the thing is kobe should set ppl up for better shots. its not all his fault though. ppl can drive when they receive it and once they penetrate create a better shot for themselves or a big man.
_________________
SMUSH FOR MVP |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OscarWang
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 4129
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe and the triangle offense |
|
|
| ravelo wrote: | | I don't think Kobe is a good fit for the triangle offense! Everyone always claims that the rest of the Lakers just stand around and watch Kobe when he gets the ball but what are they supposed to do? How many times does Kobe actually look for an open man when he gets the ball? HE DOESN'T! He tries to dribble through 2-3 defenders....he is always looking for HIS shot! The triangle is supposed to be effective when guys are cutting and whenever Kobe posts up he never hits the cutters! How many times have we seen the ball stop moving once Kobe gets it? 99.9% of the time!!!!! Don't get me wrong, I think Kobe is the best one on one player in the game but there are always 10 guys on the floor during game time!!! Four of which are Kobe's "teammates" but Kobe doesn't seem to care too much about them nor anyone else on the floor for that matter....When Kobe is on the floor it's all about KOBE BRYANT! It has sickened me to see what Kobe Bryant has done to the Laker organization!!!! I'm done! |
oh crap it's a mav fan lets run |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
