LO is the most versatile player in the game
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JaySK2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:59 pm    Post subject:

shnjb wrote:
JaySK2 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
EJtheDJ wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
EJ..that's a bold statement...

Odom is okay...2-13 isn't the best shooting percentage..I think we can agree on that...

But to say that he's the most versatile? over..say KG..who can bang in the post and step out and even shoot three's.. Sheed even comes to mind as being a better shooter and post ability..

Lamar needs to reach his potential..which I agree..is sky high...but as of now...he's not there... he's not allstar caliber yet..when he drops 18, 8, and 6 consistently... which he is so capable of...then he'll be an allstar...

I agree its a bold statement, but to ignore what he is capable of is very hard. I also think its foolish for some to harp on his bad shooting so much. He still got 9 boards and 7 dimes with 2 steals. He is going to feel up a stat sheet every night.

To me that says that he will always have an effect on the game. The kid has got one very slick game! And if you look at the numbers he has put up over his career his scoring will come around. As he gets more proficient running the show, I think Phil will start to work him in the post more. His best is yet to come, but I feel its coming.

No 2-13 is not ideal. LOL. But we can also agree that it wont be like that night in and night out.


What he seems incapable of is playing defense. He gets abused inside, and got abused on the perimeter by Carmelo last night.


Carmelo didn't abuse anyone last night, what game were you watching? He only had to play on 1 end, Phil refuses to let Odom abuse guys in the post like Carmelo and Marion. Make them both play D, and I garauntee you they wont have very good nights.


Carmelo didn't abuse us last night only because George was guarding him.
If Odom was guarding him, then it would've been a repeat of the preseason game against Denver, where Carmelo absolutely torched Odom like a Christmas tree.


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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:03 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
shnjb wrote:
JaySK2 wrote:
yea against the warriors too. you just got owned shnjb


Oh yeah. You got me. Ouch.
:roll:

Owned because someone thinks he had a few clutch performances?
As if there are objective criteria for such subjective things?

Please...
Also, considering the guy has been in the league for 5? 6? years, I'd say he's had a few clutch performances.
Obviously the point was that he just isn't clutch, not that he had NO clutch shot, or clutch sequence in his career.

I was owned. :roll:
Let me guess; you're a high school student.


What your argument here, he missed shots. Only 1 of the shots he took, IMO was when the Lakers still had a shot to win. That 3, but Kobe missed a 3 right after that when the Lakers were still in the game. The other shots Lamar took, the Suns had already basically won it IMO. Odom has had plenty of clutch performances, just shut up you know nothing about playing ball obviously. Just accept your OWNING like a man...


You're not too bright, are you?
It's okay; half of the population is SUPPOSED to have IQ under 100, but let the intellectually superior people do the discussing.

What was my argument?
No, it wasn't what you think it was;

My argument was that Odom just isn't very clutch, based on what I've seen from him when he was a Clipper, a Heat, a Laker, and tonight's fourth quarter.

Odom's fourth quarter offensive stats tonight:
1. Misses shot
2. Turnover
3. Makes shot
4. Makes only 1 out of 2 on crucial free throws
5. Makes shot
6. Misses shot
7. Misses shot
8. Misses shot

That's 2-6 FG, 1-2 FT, and a TO.

You say only one of them had a chance to help the Lakers win?
Idiot. Actually all of them count.
In case you haven't noticed, every single point counts toward the total, not just the one you remember.
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:05 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
shnjb wrote:
JaySK2 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
EJtheDJ wrote:
Thugnomoe wrote:
EJ..that's a bold statement...

Odom is okay...2-13 isn't the best shooting percentage..I think we can agree on that...

But to say that he's the most versatile? over..say KG..who can bang in the post and step out and even shoot three's.. Sheed even comes to mind as being a better shooter and post ability..

Lamar needs to reach his potential..which I agree..is sky high...but as of now...he's not there... he's not allstar caliber yet..when he drops 18, 8, and 6 consistently... which he is so capable of...then he'll be an allstar...

I agree its a bold statement, but to ignore what he is capable of is very hard. I also think its foolish for some to harp on his bad shooting so much. He still got 9 boards and 7 dimes with 2 steals. He is going to feel up a stat sheet every night.

To me that says that he will always have an effect on the game. The kid has got one very slick game! And if you look at the numbers he has put up over his career his scoring will come around. As he gets more proficient running the show, I think Phil will start to work him in the post more. His best is yet to come, but I feel its coming.

No 2-13 is not ideal. LOL. But we can also agree that it wont be like that night in and night out.


What he seems incapable of is playing defense. He gets abused inside, and got abused on the perimeter by Carmelo last night.


Carmelo didn't abuse anyone last night, what game were you watching? He only had to play on 1 end, Phil refuses to let Odom abuse guys in the post like Carmelo and Marion. Make them both play D, and I garauntee you they wont have very good nights.


Carmelo didn't abuse us last night only because George was guarding him.
If Odom was guarding him, then it would've been a repeat of the preseason game against Denver, where Carmelo absolutely torched Odom like a Christmas tree.


NUFF SAID


So instead of actually having a point with coherent language, you reply with statements like OWNED or NUFF SAID.

Before you post, please try to think about what you're going to say... even if it takes 2 hours for you.
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:06 pm    Post subject:

The only thing Odom does at an elite or all star level is rebound.

And that is a very important thing.

Every other aspect of his game is average at best.
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JaySK2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject:

you were OWNED boy, just accept it.
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:14 pm    Post subject:

JaySK2 wrote:
lol, let me school you real quick. George was benched because Marion was abusing him. What game were you watching? Odom did well on Marion head up, but its called help defense on pick n rolls. Its not just about 1 guy, its about help team. You wouldnt know anything about that. George was getting abused by Marion, he is to small. you may want to rewatch the game, ill get the tape for u if you like. and marion didnt "drive" by odom not once to my knowledge. not and finish he didnt, now i know u didnt watch the game. watch all the highlites, its not hard. marion goin off wasnt odoms fault at all. odom did a good job on him


Before I attempt to read your "post", allow me give you a little lesson on English language.

1. Do try to explore the keyboard freely; there are keys such as apostrophes or shift that help you demonstrate your point more precisely.

2. Rewatch is not a word.

3. Highlites is not a word.

4. When you are trying to denote someone's posession of something, you use the apostrophe and then the 's.' Odoms would imply that there are more than 1 Odom, which would be a frightening thing for our basketball team.

5. I have bold-faced the butchering you have done in your post; learn from it and never post again.
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject:

You just don't get it, do you?

Do pass your junior high school exit exam, and then perhaps we can discuss things in a more sophisticated manner.... boy.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject:

cKPayasoLoco wrote:
shnjb wrote:
Odom shoots the last 3 or 2 shots and misses all of them.

Has this guy ever had a clutch performance?
EVER?


Last year against Minny


game-winner against Golden State...

but he's got to stick with Pip and stop listening to Craig Hodges.
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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Waterboy wrote:
Yeah, he added another dimension to his game last night. INCONSISTENCY. :roll: Oh wait..that's been there his whole career.


Consistency has always been Lamar's achilles heel. He'll look like the best player on the court one night, and the next night he'll make you forget he's even on the floor. After a poor performance last night, he very well may put up a triple-double @ home tonight against Phoenix. You just never know what you're going to get from Lamar on any given night. If he weren't making franchise player money, it wouldn't even be an issue. The inconsistency is what bothers me the most though.


Just as I predicted Yeah it wasn't an official triple-double, but he was a triple-double threat.

I'd like to see a little more aggression to the basket, and of course, some CONSISTENCY.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:58 am    Post subject:

Finally some people have come to see what I've known since preseason of last year. Odom is passive and has no jumpshot. He frequently loses focus on defense. He really has no role on this team whatsoever. He is NOT the primary ballhandler on this team and he does NOT initiate the offense. He can NOT be depended on to shoot, post up, or drive the basket. He does NOT play defense anywhere near an acceptable level, either.

I mean, look at how he pretty much screwed us over at the end of the game tonight. How many 3s did he jack up? He's probably the worst shooter next to Mihm and Kwame yet he seems to think he's Ray Allen or Peja? The only time he should EVER shoot a 3 is if the shot clock is at 1. Phil Jackson needs to smack his pothead ass around until he finds something else to do.

I don't want to hear about his 23 points tonight, either. With as many opportunities as he got he should score 23 points. And don't quote his high FG% to me, either. It was only high because he got bailed out so often and then did zilch when got to the FT line.

I will dance and sing the day trade Odom. Seriously.
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shnjb
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:11 am    Post subject:

^^As will I.

We need a better sidekick next to Kobe than Odom.
A smarter, more consistent, and more intense player who can defend.
Less talent is fine, as potential doesn't mean anything if it stays untapped for 5-6 years.

I'll take guys like Iguodala or Shawn Marion (they won't take Odom, obviously) over Odom ANYTIME, and I'm sure Kupchak would as well.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:44 am    Post subject:

Odom for someone like Granger or Luol Deng. I too am starting to think Odom must be traded. He's just not very bright on the floor.
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:10 am    Post subject:

shnjb wrote:
^^As will I.

We need a better sidekick next to Kobe than Odom.
A smarter, more consistent, and more intense player who can defend.
Less talent is fine, as potential doesn't mean anything if it stays untapped for 5-6 years.

I'll take guys like Iguodala or Shawn Marion (they won't take Odom, obviously) over Odom ANYTIME, and I'm sure Kupchak would as well.


I'd take Sean Marion over him... But let's not forget that Marion folded in the Western Conference finals last season, he absolutely dissapeared. I like his game though. But how do you propose we go about getting him or any other player who would be a significant upgrade? It's not that easy to pry a star player away from a team, unless they are just doing a fire sale ala Baron Davis last season.

I mentioned this in another thread, but you can go back to that first Rockets championship team... They had Hakeem who was the best player in the game at the time... The other people on their team were a young Horry, a rookie Sam Cassell (who was an old Kenny Smith's backup), Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell. That was the supporting cast. For that matter Odom > the old versiosn of David Robinson and Sean Elliot that stood beside Tim Duncan for the Spurs' first championship.

How many teams have a second threat who is a better player than Lamar Odom? Scoring isn't everything, I'm talking all around. Let's take a look at the 29 teams in this league:

Atlanta: #1 Joe Johnson, #2 Al Harrington... Odom is better than either of these two.

Boston: #1 Paul Pierce, #2 Ricky Davis... The only thign worse than Davis' attitude is his +/-

Charlotte: #1 Emeka Okafor, #2 Raymond Felton... You could argue that Odom is better than either of these two, but certainly he's more proven at this point.

Chicago: (Unsorted) Tyson Chandler, Ben Gordon... Odom's looking pretty strong so far.

Cleveland: #1 Lebron James #2 Larry Hughes or Zydrunas Ilgauskus - Odom is pretty solid next to either of these two also. Zydrunas is an all-star center, mainly from a lack of good centers in the league. Larry Hughes had an incredible season last season, but I tend to believe he won't match that in Cleveland.

Dallas: #1 Dirk Nowitzki #2 Josh Howard or Jason Terry

Denver: #1 Carmelo Anthony, #2 - K-Mart or Andre Miller... I like both Martin and Miller. Odom is a much better rebounder than Martin believe it or not, and they score at a similar mark.

Detroit: (Unsorted) Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Chauncy Billups, Rip Hamilton - Detroit has a ton of depth and a lot of multi-facted players. I didn't want to sort them because they don't have any great players, just a lot of really good ones.

Golden State: #1 Baron Davis #2 Jason Richardson or Troy Murphy. Runing short of time now, goign to start just listing names and let you make your own decisions.

Houston: #1 Tracy McGrady #2 Yao Ming

Idiana: #1 Jermaine o'Neal #2 Ron Artest

LA Clippers: #1 Elton Brand #2 Sam Cassel or Cuttino Mobley

Memphis: #1 - Pao Gasol #2 Eddie Jones

Miami: #1 Dwayne Wade #2 Shaq... Okay they got us on that one. =P

Milwaukee: #1 Michael Redd #2 Magloire/Bogut

Minnesota: #1 KG #2 Wally Szerbiak

New Jersey: #1 Jason Kidd #2 Vince Carter/Richard Jefferson

Oklahoma: #1 Chris Paul #2 Desmond Mason

New York: #1 Stephon Marbury #2 Eddie Curry

Orlando: #1 Grant Hill (always injured unfortunately) #2 Steve Francis/Dwight Howard

Philadelphia: #1 Allen Iverson #2 Chris Webber

Phoenix: #1 Amare Stoudemire #2 Steve Nash/Sean Marion. Hard to argue with that threesome.

Portland: #1 Zach Randolph #2 Darius Miles

Sacramento: Unsorted: Mike Bibby, Peja Stojakovic, Sherif Abdur-Rahim, Brad Miller... Similar to detroit not really any superstars, lot of solid players.

San Antonio: #1 Tim Duncan Unsorted After; Manu/Parker/Finley... Okay they got us. =P

Seattle: #1 Ray Allen #2 Rashard Lewis

Toronto: #1 Jalen Rose #2 Chris Bosh

Utah: #1 Andrei Kirilenko #2 Mehmet Okur/Deron Williams

Washington: (Unsorted) Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison.

First off, Kobe is a better #1 player than most of the other teams (arguably all) have as an option. He's one of the top five players in the league today, which goes a long way. Basketball isn't won by any two options alone, it helps. But you need role players at other positions to play defense and knock down open shots. That having been said, and going through this list, there are very few teams that have a better second option than Lamar Odom. A lot of that is subjective but in my opionion the only teams that do are: Houston, Indiana, Miami, San Antonio, Phoenix, maybe Philadelphia/Detriot.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject:

Incredible.

Odom has 23 points, 16 boards and 8 assists tonight - yet people still won't admit that he's a rare talent in the league.

Odom isn't this team's problem. Especially now now that he's making plays and is the team's point.

The problem with the Lakers was obvious in September and is still obvious now. They have pisspoor C/PF rotation and they lack the interior defense.

Right now what's killing the Lakers chances at being a very good team is Kwame and Mihm.

They both have been poor. They must step up. Significantly.
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Odom for someone like Granger or Luol Deng. I too am starting to think Odom must be traded. He's just not very bright on the floor.


Career stats: (With Disclaimer that stats don't mean everything)

Lamar Odom: 16 points, 8.3 rebounds, 4.3 asssits 0.96 steals, 1.1 blocks, 2.52 turnovers, 44.4% from teh field, 30.8% from 3point, 71.5% from free throw line.

Loul Deng:

11.6 points, 5.3 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.77 steals, 0.4 blocks, 1.92 turnovers, 43.3% field goals, 26.3% 3point, 74.7% free throw.

Danny Granger is a rookie who has shown nothing at this point. In two games thoughhe's averaging:

4.5 points, 3.5 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 2 turnovers

No further comments are necessary.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject:

Waterboy wrote:
Yeah, he added another dimension to his game last night. INCONSISTENCY. :roll: Oh wait..that's been there his whole career.


Told ya so. :roll:

Lamar Odom for MVP (Most Valuable Pothead).
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject:

For shoes. I love going way back. LO has been exactley who is 4/ever. Sure we could find "You see LO is the man" threads. yet they are always followed by these. that is a horrible trait for a player
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
For shoes. I love going way back. LO has been exactley who is 4/ever. Sure we could find "You see LO is the man" threads. yet they are always followed by these. that is a horrible trait for a player


Exactly, if he hasn't lived up to his potential now, he never will. Its that simple.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject:

If you think about it LO is very versatile. I mean very few people in the league can miss layups, miss free throws, committ stupid fouls, committ stupid turnovers, and look confused on the court on a consistent basis.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject:

LA4Life wrote:
If you think about it LO is very versatile. I mean very few people in the league can miss layups, miss free throws, committ stupid fouls, committ stupid turnovers, and look confused on the court on a consistent basis.


You know what, you're right. I take it all back. He CAN be consistent!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: LO is the most versatile player in the game

EJtheDJ wrote:
People talk down on LO but truth be told he is one one of the most if not the most uniquely gifted player in basketball. Think about it 6-10 230 plays the point on offense and guard 3s 4s and when LA goes small 5s. He boards blocks shots and runs the point. Who else does that in the league?

His offense will come around he is a 16 to 17 ppg player for his career. No one not KG, TD, LeBron, TMac, or Kobe are a versatile as LO. He will get it together and when he does alot of people are going to eat crow. He also is a better than he has shown, its a matter of him finding his spots in the tri.


Better than he has shown??? If you can't show it, maybe it doesn't exist.......maybe on NBA LIVE 2006, but in the real world....Odom is a coward, and an ineffective player
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject:

Maybe it's just me, but I think there are enough Lamar Odom threads without bumping threads that have been dead for months.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject:

bump
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject:

He's the most versatile player.. he can do things like NOT SHOW UP, make bonhead moves in the crunch, lose his heart at key times, lose his brain even more often, and did I mention NOT SHOW UP?
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