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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject:

^
Jerry wanted to draft Sidney and Buss forced them to draft Magic.

Jerry also drafted Drew Gooden over Amare and then traded him that season for Mike Miller.

So essentially he passed on the best power player since Shaq for a guy he later traded for MM.

Not exactly perfect either

And what great FA has West signed in Memphis?

Without LA and Buss' vision - West isn't nearly as effective as he used to be.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject:

insidepresence wrote:
KA_2 wrote:
Artest: 18.9ppg/5.0rpg/2.7apg/2.64spg/0.64bpg.
Lamar: 13.9ppg/9.3rpg/5.4apg/0.94spg/0.90bpg.

Yup, we shouldn't have traded LO for this bum, with his shorter and smaller contract and his lockdown defense. Duh people!

:roll:


Roll your eyes all you wan't, Artest would not have resigned with us...so you would rather rent Artest for two years (and during those two years have no chance at a championship) than let LO, Kobe and Bynum grow together as a team. It's not about right now...btw Artest has never been on a team with a personality like Kobe, who knows how they would mesh


Aren't Artest and Kobe friends? Didn't Artest have Kobe's back on the Colorado episode?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject:

Jerry wasn't the GM when Magic was drafted, I am 99.999999% sure
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insidepresence
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:14 pm    Post subject:

Laker Lurker wrote:
insidepresence wrote:
KA_2 wrote:
Artest: 18.9ppg/5.0rpg/2.7apg/2.64spg/0.64bpg.
Lamar: 13.9ppg/9.3rpg/5.4apg/0.94spg/0.90bpg.

Yup, we shouldn't have traded LO for this bum, with his shorter and smaller contract and his lockdown defense. Duh people!

:roll:


Roll your eyes all you wan't, Artest would not have resigned with us...so you would rather rent Artest for two years (and during those two years have no chance at a championship) than let LO, Kobe and Bynum grow together as a team. It's not about right now...btw Artest has never been on a team with a personality like Kobe, who knows how they would mesh


Aren't Artest and Kobe friends? Didn't Artest have Kobe's back on the Colorado episode?


Did Shaq call Kobe his brother and the greatest player on the planet? Big difference once they get on the court together
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject:

I think he was an assistant at the time. I know for a fact that I read a few pieces on that story. How West didn't want to draft Magic.

Some LG'ers will know that story and tell you more about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:16 pm    Post subject:

He was scouting director...and everyone knew he was in line to be the next GM, so they asked his opinion
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject:

I am thinking that you do not know what the term "bar none" means.
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KA_2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:18 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Kid?

What does age have to do it?

So I'm in my 20's and you're an old man ready to die. Big whoop.

You're still insane to think that you know more than Buss.


What do I "know" more than Buss? That this Lakers team isn't very good? Their record of 26-25 already tells me that. As did their 34 win season last year. So what are you referring to?

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So? And you think you're a realist?

Please. You're a guy that has no loyalty and the type of person that ditches people when the chips are down.

I know your types.

Go ahead and piss on the Lakers right now and then come back when there's parades.


What, exactly, am I ditching? What is not true about anything I've said?

I know you like to deflect topics when you clearly have no chance of winning them with anything but homeristic bull****, but get real son.

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That is if you're still alive at that point considering your age and all.


Stick to the homer BS, you're not good at the jokes.

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Rings?


Say what? What rings did the Lakers win when Jerry West wasn't around to build the teams? Come on kid, think.

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One question.

Who did Jerry West want to pick in the Magic draft and who FORCED him to pick Magic?

West would have screwed up 5 rings right there if it weren't for Buss.


Then again West also picked up Shaq, Kobe, Worthy for litterally nothing from the Cavs, and built dynasties in general.

Additionally, I included Sharman, not just West. What has Buss done without either GM to build teams for them? Nothing.

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Yet, neither won after they left here.


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West passed on Amare and has won nothing in Memphis.


West has the Grizzlies doing better than the Lakers, even though the Lakers have the best player and coach in the league. West had them in the playoffs last year and 50 wins the year before. West has had more success than Buss the last couple seasons. Yeah, whoops.

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I get it now. Grampa is crampy because his kids forced him into a retirement home?


Nah, because the kids pretend to know their history when they didn't watch it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I think he was an assistant at the time. I know for a fact that I read a few pieces on that story. How West didn't want to draft Magic.

Some LG'ers will know that story and tell you more about it.


Reportedly West wanted Moncrief. Not a bad pick. For all we know it isn't true, unless West admitted as much in an interview that I don't know about.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:22 pm    Post subject:

KA_2 I know my history, but you overvalue what West did here and in Memphis. He walked into a cap-friendly situation in Memphis, and IIRC his first year there they had a top-5 pick. And when here he basically did nothing from 90-97...the team needed no tinkering until 2004 well after he was gone, its been 2 years...he did nothing for seven, and mitch does nothing for two, but somehow its Buss's fault?...Let me ask you something, you are in Buss's shoes, who do you choose Shaq or Kobe?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject:

insidepresence wrote:
Ya I have no way of knowing except for the fact that he said he was going to sign with New York when his contract was up.


He also said he'd come off the bench behind LeBron James. Is he going to come off the bench for LeBron James when his contract is up?

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LO and Kobe mesh well, its just people like you expect too much from LO.


34 wins last season. 26-25 this season. Think.

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There was a mistake made, LO was given a superstars contract, and he is merely a star. He would be a perfect 3rd option with Kobe...but Artest is not the answer.


You still haven't explained why Artest wasn't the answer.

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By the way, you toute Jerry West as the God of this team but...Jerry West was a Laker for so long that people tend to forget the details of his reign as GM. Jerry West did not draft Magic Johnson. He did not acquire Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He did not draft James Worthy.


No, West in fact stole a first rounder from the Cavs and drafted James Worthy with it in 82. Get it right.

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Yup, West was the Lakers coach from 1976-77 through 1978-79. He then spent the next three years as a Laker scout before replacing Bill Sharman as GM before the 1982-83 season. So West was GM from 1982 until 2000. So basically the Lakers did nothing from 90-97...give Mitch some time...old men these days


Kids.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:24 pm    Post subject:

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Then again West also picked up Shaq, Kobe, Worthy for litterally nothing from the Cavs, and built dynasties in general.


WTF are you talking about? Worthy? Cavs? What is litterally anyway?

I have seen my first allegedly older man with a bbs sig that reads, "Westside". Are you OG? I am willing to bet you are more OC.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject:

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What do I "know" more than Buss? That this Lakers team isn't very good? Their record of 26-25 already tells me that. As did their 34 win season last year. So what are you referring to?

Yet they had similar records in the 90's

Forget that they went lottery and had weak playoff records 1-2 times?

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What, exactly, am I ditching? What is not true about anything I've said?

I know you like to deflect topics when you clearly have no chance of winning them with anything but homeristic bull****, but get real son.


Pretty much everything. You would trade Bynum for Artest and that's complete (bleep).

Basically everything that you suggest is (bleep)

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Stick to the homer BS, you're not good at the jokes

Truth hurts eh?

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Say what? What rings did the Lakers win when Jerry West wasn't around to build the teams? Come on kid, think

Grampa - How many years has it been?

Then again West also picked up Shaq, Kobe, Worthy for litterally nothing from the Cavs, and built dynasties in general.

Quote:
Additionally, I included Sharman, not just West. What has Buss done without either GM to build teams for them? Nothing

One common factor for both ....

Buss. LA Laker brand.

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West has the Grizzlies doing better than the Lakers, even though the Lakers have the best player and coach in the league. West had them in the playoffs last year and 50 wins the year before. West has had more success than Buss the last couple seasons. Yeah, whoops.

Did they win a ring?

NOOOO. So Why do I care? You want some cookies for that record?

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Nah, because the kids pretend to know their history when they didn't watch it.

I'm sorry I wasn't around in the 50's like you gramps, but that still doesn't mean you know a damn thing you are taking about.

Buss <--- Millionaire that built himself and the Lakers to 8 rings
KA_2 <---- Internet fan that thinks he knows more

Hmmm ... Wonder who would know more ....

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Reportedly West wanted Moncrief. Not a bad pick. For all we know it isn't true, unless West admitted as much in an interview that I don't know about.

Ignore, dismiss and belittle anything that goes against your agenda.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject:

insidepresence wrote:
KA_2 I know my history, but you overvalue what West did here and in Memphis. He walked into a cap-friendly situation in Memphis, and IIRC his first year there they had a top-5 pick. And when here he basically did nothing from 90-97...the team needed no tinkering until 2004 well after he was gone, its been 2 years...he did nothing for seven, and mitch does nothing for two, but somehow its Buss's fault?...Let me ask you something, you are in Buss's shoes, who do you choose Shaq or Kobe?


You don't know your history, obviously, as evidenced by your Worthy comments.

And no, the situation in Memphis was that they were annually lotto every season and then eventually become a 50 win playoff team, and are well on their way to another birth this season. Yet the Lakers can't seem to do anything with the best coach and player in the league to build around, and by this summer (barring a big deadline trade), the Lakers won't have improved at all in 2 seasons since beginning the rebuilding process.

These are all indisputable facts.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject:

You are correct about worthy, but you have many holes in your argument. You ask me to explain why Artest isn't the answer. I already said, he claims he wouldn't sign here and I believe chemistry. I said it once already. By the way, you accuse Wolf of avoiding question, you avoided mine, who would you side with Kobe or Shaq?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:33 pm    Post subject:

PrplReign wrote:
Quote:
Then again West also picked up Shaq, Kobe, Worthy for litterally nothing from the Cavs, and built dynasties in general.


WTF are you talking about? Worthy? Cavs? What is litterally anyway?

I have seen my first allegedly older man with a bbs sig that reads, "Westside". Are you OG? I am willing to bet you are more OC.


Damn, that is some serious ownage
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KA_2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yet they had similar records in the 90's


With Magic abruptly retiring and being left with broken down Worthy, the Lakers still managed better than 34 wins. Boy you suck at this arguing stuff.

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Forget that they went lottery and had weak playoff records 1-2 times?


The Lakers have yet to make the playoffs with a Kupchak-built team, and are currently hanging onto the 8th spot.

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Pretty much everything. You would trade Bynum for Artest and that's complete (bleep).


It wouldn't be my first choice, but if I had to, yes.

So far this season:

Artest: 18.9ppg/5.0rpg/2.7apg/2.64spg/0.64bpg.
Bynum: well, you get the picture

Quote:
Basically everything that you suggest is (bleep)


Yawn. Everything I suggest is reality. That Artest is better than LO. That the Lakers won 34 games last season and are barely above .500 this season. That Jerry Buss has not had any success since West/Sharman haven't been there to build teams for him. Fact.

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Truth hurts eh?


The truth being that I'm smarter, older, and more successful? OK.

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Grampa - How many years has it been?


Is this wolfpaclaker speak for "I give up?". Because even a half-wit like Kobe 2.0 knows that Jerry Buss has not won jack since West/Sharman stopping building teams for him.

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One common factor for both ....

Buss. LA Laker brand.


Deflect deflect. Facts are facts, Buss hasn't done crap since West (which I give more credit to than Sharman, seeing as how he was with him advising him since the Jabbar days when all their real success started).

Quote:
Did they win a ring?

NOOOO. So Why do I care? You want some cookies for that record?


Facts are West is STILL building better than the Lakers, despite not having the best coach and player in the league. You want to argue with that? Of course you do, you're a kid homer.

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I'm sorry I wasn't around in the 50's like you gramps, but that still doesn't mean you know a damn thing you are taking about.


No, I definitely know what I'm talking about. Sadly I can't say the same for a kid like you. Kid who probably hasn't popped his cherry.

Quote:
Buss <--- Millionaire that built himself and the Lakers to 8 rings
KA_2 <---- Internet fan that thinks he knows more


34 wins. 26-25. West building better teams than the Lakers with best coach/player in league. Facts. Get....over....it.

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Ignore, dismiss and belittle anything that goes against your agenda.


Oh, so you can link me proof that West didn't want Magic? Good luck.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject:

Honestly if you wanna get to the heart of this discussion, who would you choose KA Shaq or Kobe? If you choose Shaq, were in cap hell with a guy who isn't doing much of anything and you let Kobe walk for nothing. If you choose kobe, you have what we have, you think you could have done better with an unhappy Shaq with veto power? Either way, these are creations of Jerry West and Buss together, they did this. It is what happens when you have two superstar max players. I still don't get why you avoided my question. I had to answer it myself.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject:

For someone with such age and wisdom over us mid to late twenty year olds, you have an odd way of showing it with that "poppin cherry" comment, you don't think that was a little bit over the top?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject:

By the way KA...I agree that Sharman was responsible for the Magic/Kareem tandem...that guy was good
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject:

insidepresence wrote:
You are correct about worthy, but you have many holes in your argument. You ask me to explain why Artest isn't the answer. I already said, he claims he wouldn't sign here and I believe chemistry. I said it once already.


He claims he would come off the bench behind LeBron James. He says a lot of stupid stuff he doesn't mean, like a lot of superstars (e.g. Shaq). Chemistry? Please.

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By the way, you accuse Wolf of avoiding question, you avoided mine, who would you side with Kobe or Shaq?


This has nothing to do with any argument here, I have no reason to answer a question that's not even on topic, but if you really want to know, I'd side with Kobe every time. Despite knowing how bad a GM Kupchak is.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject:

insidepresence wrote:
Honestly if you wanna get to the heart of this discussion, who would you choose KA Shaq or Kobe? If you choose Shaq, were in cap hell with a guy who isn't doing much of anything and you let Kobe walk for nothing. If you choose kobe, you have what we have, you think you could have done better with an unhappy Shaq with veto power? Either way, these are creations of Jerry West and Buss together, they did this. It is what happens when you have two superstar max players. I still don't get why you avoided my question. I had to answer it myself.


How is this at the heart of the discussion?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject:

KA_2 wrote:
insidepresence wrote:
Honestly if you wanna get to the heart of this discussion, who would you choose KA Shaq or Kobe? If you choose Shaq, were in cap hell with a guy who isn't doing much of anything and you let Kobe walk for nothing. If you choose kobe, you have what we have, you think you could have done better with an unhappy Shaq with veto power? Either way, these are creations of Jerry West and Buss together, they did this. It is what happens when you have two superstar max players. I still don't get why you avoided my question. I had to answer it myself.


How is this at the heart of the discussion?


Because, Kobe and Shaq were both West according to you. Therefore there contracts are West's fault. You fault Mitch (as do I most days not sure why I am playing devil's advocate today) for not doing anything, when we have nothing to offer because of what West brought to the team. The situation we have right now is unavoidable because of Kobe and Shaq's inability to get along, the fact that they are both max players, and the fact that West brought them in, and now we're dealing with it. And yes I agree, Kobe everytime and twice on sundays
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject:

I lost respect for the man when he retired jordans number in miami. He then had the nerve to suggest every team in the league should follow likewise. LAME.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject:

insidepresence wrote:
Because, Kobe and Shaq were both West according to you. Therefore there contracts are West's fault.


Jerry West did not trade Shaquille O'Neal, Mitch Kupchak did. It doesn't matter what contract he had because in this instance we have no idea how West would have handled that situation. Despite Shaq continually spewing BS, the dude had a good point about West; that things wouldn't have gotten as bad as they did if West was there to control things in LA. Shaq had no respect for Kupchak, but he had tons for West.

Quote:
You fault Mitch (as do I most days not sure why I am playing devil's advocate today) for not doing anything, when we have nothing to offer because of what West brought to the team. The situation we have right now is unavoidable because of Kobe and Shaq's inability to get along, the fact that they are both max players, and the fact that West brought them in, and now we're dealing with it. And yes I agree, Kobe everytime and twice on sundays


Except Kupchak wasn't able to put talent around the Shaq and Kobe when West left. West built those teams. Kupchak f'ed them up. He couldn't get Shaq and Kobe to get along, he couldn't put talent around them, he couldn't do anything. Things fell apart when West left.
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