Kwame done already in LA?(my opinion, not trade rumor)
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Sage_10
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject:

Agreed. The Lakers are stuck with him for at least one more year. They have keep encouraging him and hope that he can develop some consistency.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject:

Charles wrote:
If Kwame's third year isn't guaranteed, it makes things a lot easier. He'd be an 8-million expiring contract


Good point, it is VERY critical it is not picked up, as he can be combined with Odom to provide cap relief to the team taking on Lamar

What other expiring k's do we have AFTER next year?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject:

Kwame will get until at least the middle of next season. Unless a trade is proposed where his salary is needed. Kwame's people need to reach him and tell him that he is playing for his next contract.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Kwame done already in LA?(my opinion, not trade rumor)

Aussiesuede wrote:

Nope...The Lakers knew they were taking on a project and are going to continue to be much more patient than fans. I don't think they'll even consider jumping ship on Kwame before next December. If Kwame doesn't show much more promise between now and then, well then he's probably trade bait. But I highly doubt the Laker organization will jump ship at this early stage. That's just never been their MO.


I don't think the Lakers thought of Kwame as a project, otherwise they wouldn't have given one of their most tradable/expendable assets in Caron Butler for him. I think they were taking a gamble that the change in scenery/team would turn Kwame into the player that A LOT of people were expecting him to be. It was a VERY risky gamble, but one they felt was worth taking (probably Kupchak...lol). When he came here, they were expecting at least 10 and 8 from him. He's at 6 and 6 and not getting much better.

If there is interest in Kwame (which there won't be) during the summer, the Lakers get rid of him in a heartbeat (as long as the return is semi-decent). The ONLY reasons I see the Lakers not jumping ship from the Kwame "potential" is because they've already have vested money into him and they don't want to look like they don't have faith in their decision (even though they realistically know it was a BAD move). But, given the right situation, I would go on a limb to guarantee the Lakers dump him in a trade. BIG problem is that nobody would take him at this point (especially with the $$$ she...sorry...he makes).
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Kwame will get until at least the middle of next season. Unless a trade is proposed where his salary is needed. Kwame's people need to reach him and tell him that he is playing for his next contract.


This is what concerned me the most about the possibility of his option being picked up so early.

It would have effectively removed any financial incentive for Kwame to bust his tail in the off-season to refine his game.

Without that carrot in front of him, we'd have to rely upon him to improve his game for the sake of improving his game - fat chance.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:55 am    Post subject:

Darko is already outplaying Kwame in Orlando. If I were the Lakers I couldn't get rid of Kwame fast enough. He doesn't have the mental make up or the work ethic. For all the talk of his beast of a body he can't even catch the ball to use that body. Stick a fork in him and move him this summer as fast as you can.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Kwame done already in LA?(my opinion, not trade rumor)

Aussiesuede wrote:
WIZ/LAKE FAN wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
Purplereign34 wrote:
As everyone knows, it is mental with kwame. now ppl are saying how kwame is yelling at phil. and maybe kobe too? you know phil and kobe probably ride kwame in practice(as they should). and kwame has gotten worse as the year as gone by. maybe phil and kobe have broken kwame? hes so fragile. now the crowd is booing him too.

what do you guys think?


It's more than just mental -- Kwame simply has not learned how to play basketball -- he has no touch around the basket.

Kwame for Butler et.al. has to rate as MK's all time trade blunders.


Please go to CBS sportsline.com and check out Kwame's 03-04 stats for the season. This was the only year the Wizards gave him the ball. And guess what, he produced. The Lakers will continue to get nothing from him if they don't give him touches. Iv'e seen every Wizards game Kwame played in, and even his biggest critics will admit he played better when he got touches. The Lakers should of known this when they traded for him. If you don't get him involved early, he loses focus. If you get him involved he is a different player.


I think you are spot on re: Kwame and touches. I feel pretty certain that Phil decided back in January to just let the remainder of this season be a defensive focus for Kwame. I think he correctly recognised that Kwame was at risk of getting down on himself and wanted to take a bit of pressure off. It's about the time Phil started emphasizing that he'd be satisfied with Kwame concentrating on being a strong low post defensive presense and in that regard Kwames found a fair bit of success. I'd bet that Phil won't run any plays through Kwame for the remainder of this season and doing so could have a good chance on helping Kwame next season. If you look at Kwames reactions when he screws up in the offense now, vs the beginning of the season you can see that he's not being as hard on himself and that likely comes from Phil having taken the pressure off of him on the offensive end. It primes Kwame to excel from a pshchological standpoint when he starts getting touches next season. He'll know where he's supposed to be on the court, will have a developed role as a defensive presense and will not be as likely to try to rush his shots whenn he gets opportunities on the offensive end. I think Phil will run two to four set plays through Kwame at the start of next season and gradually increase his role on the offnsive end as he experiences some success.

The Lakers knew they were taking on a project in Kwame and it looks as if they are willing to intelligently nurture that project. The promise is just too much to throw away and give up upon without a diligent effort to get Kwame to realise his potential. Fans give up on a player when they don't get to see him score a lot, but rebuilding organisations generally will have more patience and realistic expectations. Kwame won't have any real offensive expectations for the remainder of this year, but I think people will start to see you point of his need for touches next year as he starts producing more when those touches go up. It's pretty much the same story for most young bigs under the age of 26.


Finally, someone who is willing to look at the reasons behind Kwame's failures, and not just give up on him. Excellent post. I think your dead on it as well. Of course I totaly agree with your point reguarding Phil's lowered expectations for him in order to succeed. And since I'm here in DC, you know more about his coaching style than I do. But here, Kwame was made to feel like he couldn't make a mistake. That's where the reaction comes from. He would get pulled instantly for one missed assignment and never really get a chance to redeem himself. And as you point out, young bigs just develop at a different pace. Listen, I'll admit I've been in Kwame's corner from day one. I never wanted the Wizards to draft a high school kid, but I felt like since they did draft him, they would treat him as such, especially when they realized he probably needed a pat on the back instead of being contantly beat down. I know it's old news, but as someone being the same age as MJ; I felt he was way to hard on the kid. Look I love MJ, especially when he came to the low down Wizards. But MJ, Oakley, Ewing, and Collins just took their turns with him. (This is probably why he doesn't seek out Kareem like he should). And you know he really caught it from everyone including the media when he spoke up for himself. The word was, who does this high school kid think he is talking about MJ, the greatest player to ever play the game? He needs to just shut his mouth and do what he's told. And of course, that's when the booing from our fans started. No one in the Wizards organization said, you know what, maybe Kwame has a point. Kwame's rookie year Richard Hamilton was on our team and he spoke up for him, well MJ quickly got rid of Richard. (Whom I might add has a ring now). Jerry Stackhouse came here in return and he told MJ straight to his face, he was to hard on Kwame. That's when Jerry and MJ's relationship went sour, and soon Jerry was gone. I think Kwame was doomed from the start for so many reasons. I was very excited for him getting traded to the Lakers because he was never going to succeed here in DC. I hope he does make it. Look, I've seen him do it on a consistant basis his 3rd year. Everyone in the Wizards organization thought he was on his way to becoming and All Star. But he broke his foot that summer, they got Antoine Jamison, and by the time Kwame made it back it was small ball. That's why Caron has fit in so well. The Wizards went away from giving the ball to their bigs.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Kwame done already in LA?(my opinion, not trade rumor)

Laker_Dynasty wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:

Nope...The Lakers knew they were taking on a project and are going to continue to be much more patient than fans. I don't think they'll even consider jumping ship on Kwame before next December. If Kwame doesn't show much more promise between now and then, well then he's probably trade bait. But I highly doubt the Laker organization will jump ship at this early stage. That's just never been their MO.


I don't think the Lakers thought of Kwame as a project, otherwise they wouldn't have given one of their most tradable/expendable assets in Caron Butler for him. I think they were taking a gamble that the change in scenery/team would turn Kwame into the player that A LOT of people were expecting him to be. It was a VERY risky gamble, but one they felt was worth taking (probably Kupchak...lol). When he came here, they were expecting at least 10 and 8 from him. He's at 6 and 6 and not getting much better.

If there is interest in Kwame (which there won't be) during the summer, the Lakers get rid of him in a heartbeat (as long as the return is semi-decent). The ONLY reasons I see the Lakers not jumping ship from the Kwame "potential" is because they've already have vested money into him and they don't want to look like they don't have faith in their decision (even though they realistically know it was a BAD move). But, given the right situation, I would go on a limb to guarantee the Lakers dump him in a trade. BIG problem is that nobody would take him at this point (especially with the $$$ she...sorry...he makes).


I believe that you are spot on.

The Lakers will exercise "patience" with Kwame for as long as it takes to get a warm body for him.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:07 am    Post subject:

Socks wrote:
Darko is already outplaying Kwame in Orlando. If I were the Lakers I couldn't get rid of Kwame fast enough. He doesn't have the mental make up or the work ethic. For all the talk of his beast of a body he can't even catch the ball to use that body. Stick a fork in him and move him this summer as fast as you can.
I don't know how you can make that call. He's played a TOTAL of 45 minutes in 3 games, in ORL averaging 5.3ppg, and 2.7rpg, real hard to make a realistic comparison. Hopefully we can see them head-to-head, tonight, and get a more fair assesment.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject:

re4ee wrote:
Socks wrote:
Darko is already outplaying Kwame in Orlando. If I were the Lakers I couldn't get rid of Kwame fast enough. He doesn't have the mental make up or the work ethic. For all the talk of his beast of a body he can't even catch the ball to use that body. Stick a fork in him and move him this summer as fast as you can.
I don't know how you can make that call. He's played a TOTAL of 45 minutes in 3 games, in ORL averaging 5.3ppg, and 2.7rpg, real hard to make a realistic comparison. Hopefully we can see them head-to-head, tonight, and get a more fair assesment.


Sure, it's subjective, though I did watch Darko play in those games. The reason I say it is not necessarily from the averages, but more the confidence Darko is displaying. He hasn't dropped a pass that I've seen, which already gives him a huge leg up on Kwame. He made a sick no-look touch pass to Howard on a break that Kwame would have fumbled out of bounds.

If you want to look at his numbers, let's look at his per/40 minute averages, rather than game averages. Per/40 minutes, Darko is averaging 14.2 Pts, 7.1 rebounds, and 5.3 blocked shots. Yes, 5.3. I know this isn't a perfect formula to extrapolate how Darko will eventually play, but it's a good sign, particularly since he just got there and isn't really familiar with the players, system, and for that matter, hasn't even had much career playing time. Compare that with Kwame, and that's the reason for my assessment. Time will tell, but I'm predicting Darko blows up and Kwame continues to stink it up.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject:

Socks wrote:
re4ee wrote:
Socks wrote:
Darko is already outplaying Kwame in Orlando. If I were the Lakers I couldn't get rid of Kwame fast enough. He doesn't have the mental make up or the work ethic. For all the talk of his beast of a body he can't even catch the ball to use that body. Stick a fork in him and move him this summer as fast as you can.
I don't know how you can make that call. He's played a TOTAL of 45 minutes in 3 games, in ORL averaging 5.3ppg, and 2.7rpg, real hard to make a realistic comparison. Hopefully we can see them head-to-head, tonight, and get a more fair assesment.


He hasn't dropped a pass that I've seen, which already gives him a huge leg up on Kwame.


In this regard, a wall of adhesive is better than Kwame. And yes, Darko does look confident.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject:

And 1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Kwame will get until at least the middle of next season. Unless a trade is proposed where his salary is needed. Kwame's people need to reach him and tell him that he is playing for his next contract.


This is what concerned me the most about the possibility of his option being picked up so early.

It would have effectively removed any financial incentive for Kwame to bust his tail in the off-season to refine his game.

Without that carrot in front of him, we'd have to rely upon him to improve his game for the sake of improving his game - fat chance.


I've always been under the impression that players come out motivated in their contract years so they can try to get another contract. If anything, guaranteeing Kwame's 3rd year gives him LESS incentive to work hard. That's how it is in the NBA in general. Guaranteed contracts give players less incentive to play hard.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
And 1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Kwame will get until at least the middle of next season. Unless a trade is proposed where his salary is needed. Kwame's people need to reach him and tell him that he is playing for his next contract.


This is what concerned me the most about the possibility of his option being picked up so early.

It would have effectively removed any financial incentive for Kwame to bust his tail in the off-season to refine his game.

Without that carrot in front of him, we'd have to rely upon him to improve his game for the sake of improving his game - fat chance.


I've always been under the impression that players come out motivated in their contract years so they can try to get another contract. If anything, guaranteeing Kwame's 3rd year gives him LESS incentive to work hard. That's how it is in the NBA in general. Guaranteed contracts give players less incentive to play hard.


Isn't that what I said?
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