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Fan0Bynum17
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 15436
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 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| prisma8slg wrote: | | Lamar didn't need to score big last night...we had *balanced* scoring. isn't that what we want? for everyone to be in a rhythm and for kobe to be able to take over if necessary? |
if you think that is going to last with these losers around kobe you're insane. |
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Laker Lurker
Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 7652
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Socks wrote: | | Laker Lurker wrote: |
This would stop if Odom wasn't playing really badly and wasn't the second scoring option on the team. He's not doing his job which is not the job of simply being a role player.
Odom's performance (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored.As for Kobe & B.Scott, his comments were simply stupid because the Lakers would be in the lottery without Kobe ballhoging -so even if Kobe was ballhogging so what- it was simply because everyone else was worthless, including Odom,who is expected to be not worthless. Odom jockers start pro Odom threads that, unfortunately, are rare because Odom rarely does anything positive. It would be nice to see a lot of pro Odom threads because it would mean that Odom is actually paying good enough to get these posts. |
One thing that constantly confuses me is where people seem to be getting the impression that it's LO's JOB to be the second scoring option on this team. Remember when LO came out and said he was shooting to score 20 PPG earlier this season and PJ basically said no, that's not what he wanted from LO. So if the coach is saying that's not what he wants from his player, and the coach is the boss, why do people still believe this is what LO should be doing?
We all know Odom has some deficiencies, and yeah, he probably could be scoring a little more. That said, it's not that LO is not doing his job, it's your expectation of what his job actually is that is messed up. |
I strongly doubt that Phil wants Odom to score less than 10 points per game. Also as a facilitator, Odom is 21st in the league. |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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The coaching staff wants Odom to be a facilitator and look for his shot as a second resort? Yes, that's true. Problem is it's also true that Jackson has had to tell Odom to "Wake up!" (direct quote) when he loses concentration (which happens frequently, for example in Sactown). Winters has said that Odom is far too content with his single digit scoring games and that he absolutely must stay focused. Winters also said very early on in the season that a non-Kobe guard take over the facilitating role over Odom. As the season has progressed it's clear that Odom cannot be a facilitator in the triangle, and if you haven't realized that by now you're either a homer or you just don't understand what a facilitator is supposed to do (I'm guessing it's both homerism and a fundamental lack of understanding).
Secondly, Odom "leading" the Lakers to victories in a couple games against horrible teams (GS was dreadful last season, for example) doesn't mean anything. When Kobe has been injured and suspended the last two seasons, Odom has not been able to average 19 ppg as a 1st option green light scorer. So it's beyond moronic to claim Odom can score points but decides not to because he'd rather pass. No kiddies, it's not because he wants to pass, it's because he has to pass because he simply is not that talented of a scorer. The fact that he has averaged under 19 ppg in 16 games without Kobe the last two seasons is all the evidence you need to know he is not capable of scoring that many points. He's not that talented of a passer either, as his complete inability to read defenses this entire season as facilitator has proven. I'd rather have Livingston quite frankly. Better defender, much better passer and ball handler, and has shown none of Odom's lack of focus and inconsistency. More injury prone and can't rebound as well, but I'd just trade for Reggie Evans and hope Livingston adds more bulk.
Finally, Odom is being paid superstar dollars yet has role player impact. That's just fact. Kobe's having one of the greatest seasons of any perimeter player since Michael Jordan, and the Lakers are being coached by arguably the greatest of all time. And yet, the Lakers are one game above .500. What does this indicate about the supporting cast? It's simple really; they aren't that good, mostly because Odom is unable to step it up to the next level. And those are just the facts.
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Last edited by KA_2 on Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mostwanted
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 495
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Socks wrote: | | Laker Lurker wrote: |
This would stop if Odom wasn't playing really badly and wasn't the second scoring option on the team. He's not doing his job which is not the job of simply being a role player.
Odom's performance (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored.As for Kobe & B.Scott, his comments were simply stupid because the Lakers would be in the lottery without Kobe ballhoging -so even if Kobe was ballhogging so what- it was simply because everyone else was worthless, including Odom,who is expected to be not worthless. Odom jockers start pro Odom threads that, unfortunately, are rare because Odom rarely does anything positive. It would be nice to see a lot of pro Odom threads because it would mean that Odom is actually paying good enough to get these posts. |
One thing that constantly confuses me is where people seem to be getting the impression that it's LO's JOB to be the second scoring option on this team. Remember when LO came out and said he was shooting to score 20 PPG earlier this season and PJ basically said no, that's not what he wanted from LO. So if the coach is saying that's not what he wants from his player, and the coach is the boss, why do people still believe this is what LO should be doing?
We all know Odom has some deficiencies, and yeah, he probably could be scoring a little more. That said, it's not that LO is not doing his job, it's your expectation of what his job actually is that is messed up. |
Exactly.
Well said Socks.
People are ignoring that Jackson wants the offense running like last night over a guy dropping 20 points with 2 assists. He wants Odom having 5-6 assist per game and facilitating other players so that they grow in confidence and that everyone's a threat.
Basketball is a 5 man game. Especially the Triangle. |
NO, it's not well said Socks.
Let me get this straight. The only 2 legit starters on the team are Kobe and Lamar. The only 2 career 10+ point scorer are Kobe and Lamar.
With the above being taken into considertation: Odom is NOT supposed to be the second scoring option? 
Come on guys. We aren't being realistic with ourselves.
The iniator role doesn't say that a player gets '5-6 assists and facilatate' and that's it.
Phil dating back to the BUlls years had said that Iniator posistion is the hardest because it carries the most tasks and responsibility (much like PG's do in other offenses). He has to score, iniate, guide, and control the offense. He has to react and set the tone of the game. Make sure everyone is in the right place and if they aren't get them there.There is alot of responsibility.
And Odom really doesn't do all of them consistently on a game to game basis.
He'll show you a spurt of games where you say 'He is really starting to get it' and then average it out with the same amount of games where you like 'what the heck happend it was all good just a week ago.'
As the iniator he HAS to score. He HAS to pass. He HAS to create for himslef and others. This is implied. Phil JAckson doesn't need to come out and say such.
Odom doesn't need to come out and score 20 points a game. THat's not his game nor is it his mind set. Phil likes allowing players to perform to what there capable of. Odom isn't capable of 20 points a game if his life was at risk. That is why when he made his 'I will average 20 over the next 4 .......' Phil said no, 'We need you to play within yourself and you scoring to isn't playing within yourself'.
The 'Odom needs to score more crew' isn't asking for Odom to turn into Kobe and average 25-26 a night like Kobe did when he was the iniator. They aren't even asking him to score 18-20 a night like Pippen did. All they are asking is for him to consistently score 15-16 points a night.
No more 6 point games. No more 8 point games. No more 4 point games. No more 11 point games. No more score 25 one game and then score 6 the next games.
No more mental laps on the court that make Phil Jackson have to yell 'Wake Up'. No more failing to understand game situations. Kobe should not be having to split time at iniator (as he has been doing all season and a bunch lately) with you as he has enough on his plate. Man up and take responsibility for you and for your team.
Consistent 15-16 point efforts from you (among other things) is what the team needs from you. Develop your jump shot (you've had 7 years), especially your mid range jump shot. Develop your right hand MORE (you've had 7 years).
He works on those 2 areas he will be fine. After 7 years will he? I doubt it. To mentally weak and I don't think he strives to improve his game. I don't think he strives to be the best player that he can be. I think he is content on being what he is. A very good player as opposed to a great one.
It's just now that he has apparently learned the strengths of 'watching game film to learn from his mistakes'. But if he ever wants to break out of the Mr. Unreliable/Inconsistency label that he has had ever since he used to play at CKH he needs to work harder.
This guy has to much natural abiltity to not be one of the best players in this generation. If he had Kobe's work ethic he would be the best player in the leauge or atleast top 5-10. Yep. No doubt about it.
Last edited by Mostwanted on Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mostwanted wrote: | NO, it's not well said Socks.
Let me get this straight. The only 2 legit starters on the team are Kobe and Lamar. The only 2 career 10+ point scorer are Kobe and Lamar.
With the above being taken into considertation: Odom is NOT supposed to be the second scoring option?
Come on guys. We aren't being realistic with ourselves.
The iniator role doesn't say that a player gets '5-6 assists and facilatate' and that's it.
Phil dating back to the BUlls years had said that Iniator posistion is the hardest because it carries the most tasks and responsibility (much like PG's do in other offenses). He has to score, iniate, guide, and control the offense. He has to react and set the tone of the game. Make sure everyone is in the right place and if they aren't get them there.There is alot of responsibility.
And Odom really doesn't do all of them consistently on a game to game basis.
He'll show you a spurt of games where you say 'He is really starting to get it' and then average it out with the same amount of games where you like 'what the heck happend it was all good just a week ago.'
As the iniator he HAS to score. He HAS to pass. He HAS to create for himslef and others. This is implied. Phil JAckson doesn't need to come out and say such.
Odom doesn't need to come out and score 20 points a game. THat's not his game nor is it his mind set. Phil likes allowing players to perform to what there capable of. Odom isn't capable of 20 points a game if his life was at risk.
The 'Odom needs to score more crew' isn't asking for Odom to turn into Kobe and average 25-26 a night like Kobe did when he was the iniator. They aren't even asking him to score 18-20 a night like Pippen did. All they are asking is for him to consistently score 15-16 points a night.
No more 6 point games. No more 8 point games. No more 4 point games. No more 11 point games. No more score 25 one game and then score 6 the next games.
No more mental laps on the court that make Phil Jackson have to yell 'Wake Up'. Kobe should not be having to split time at iniator with you as he has enough on his plate. Man up and take responsibility for your and for your team.
Consistent 15-16 point efforts from you (among other things) is what the team needs from you. Develop your jump shot (you've had 7 years) and develop your right hand MORE (you've had 7 years).
He works on those 2 areas he will be fine. After 7 years will he? I doubt it. To mentally weak and I don't think he strives to improve his game. I don't think he strives to be the best player that he can be. I think he is content on being what he is. A very good player as opposed to a great one.
It's just now that he has apparently learned the strengths of 'watching game film to learn from his mistakes'. But if he ever wants to break out of the Mr. Unreliable/Inconsistency label that he has had ever since he used to play at CKH he needs to work harder.
This guy has to much natural abiltity to not be one of the best players in this generation. If he had Kobe's work ethic he would be the best player in the leauge or atleast top 5-10. Yep. No doubt about it. |
Extremely well said.
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Guess who got outscored by 10 players last night |
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| 40ptmachine wrote: | | For god's sake are going to keep with a second option that can't score ? |
Is that English?  |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:41 am Post subject: |
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bump
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