How did Kobe learn too be a "closer".

lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

I was watching PTI today and they brought up and interesting topic, the main story they were talking about was , how the caviliers are sliding exactly like a year ago, last year they won a game after the break and dropped 6. This year they won a game after the break and have dropped 5. But that story turned into, when is lebron james going too learn to close games and is he ever. The argument is that, alot of these player like K.G,T-Mac,Lebron, struggle too close out games and is it because they never learned that through the NCCA tournament in college in that environment , mainly because in high school they could usually WILL their team to a victory by the individual level of talent.

It seems like a valid point too me, because it is was it is, so how did kobe learn too close out games, because he obviously had failures and struggled mightly early on, 3 airballs ring a bell?

venturalakersfan · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject:

Kobe learned by failing. There is a good chance Lebron will as well.
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lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

^True but lebron james is in his 3rd year , in a weak eastern conference, and has a good bit of talent , really these last two years. I mean compare the garbage we have had these last two years and look at him in a week conference, and i dont think u can factor in age becase every other part of his game is incredibly advanced so shouldnt this be their or show signs of being their even alittle. I myself dont know if he will get their because their are alot of greats who dont have that closer mentality and its not as common as u could think IMO.

CorkyTomjanovich · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 3486

Lebron has been made out to be something he is not.

Big difference between Kobe shooting those jumpers against the Jazz as an 18 year old experiencing the NBA playoffs for the first time and a 21 year old who is athletically superior to the rest of the league and is in his third season of putting up monster numbers.

Lebron has already shown what he has in the 4th quarter when games are decided. He can improve but he is not going to be able to flip a switch and just become a "closer"

Kobe is a killer who has made more big plays and big buckets in the 4th quarter than any other player in the last 10 years.

Lebron's luck won't change until his approach the game does.
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venturalakersfan · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:

Kobe wasn't a closer in his 3rd season, either. He had to learn that it was alright to fail, then he became confident in taking that last shot. Maybe Lebron will, maybe he won't. But it would be premature to guess either way.
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lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

i agree with corky, u want one telling sign? Would kobe pass up and final shot too , some scrub? And i dont buy the arguement that was koba a closer in his third year because was kobe avergaing 30/6/7, his thrid year?

Freakout · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject:

I love Lebron but I see him as a physically bigger, prime, Grant Hill. Hell of a player but I just don't see that will to take over.

Truth is Kobe was born the way his. Sure he failed like everyone else but he didn't let it affect him. Very rare type of person can fail HUGELY like Kobe did against Utah and come back to conquer it.

Kobe's different because when he misses a game winning shot he thrives off the feeling of wanting to be put in the exact same situation again and erasing the failure. Most guys hope to avoid it.

Nick Anderson is a great example of not everyone conquering their fears of failing.

Agar5 · Starting Rotation Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 146

I don't think LBJ will be a great closer like Kobe, but it is only his 3rd year. I don't know how you can become a great "closer" like Kobe has established himself other than failing like venturalakersfan has stated. Keep in mind that in Kobe's 4th year he was a great closer winning a title. I don't think the CAVS are good enough to win it next year.

lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

^how many player have the guts too take 3 straight Jumpers dont the streach in a playoff game on the road , while not being the 1 option on a team? And it fueled him even more, according to kobe after that, he turned his training up too new levels, so he wouldnt get tired like that again. Turned a failure into a postive.

JUST-MING · Retired Number Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 43983

No. LeBron doesn't want to be in that situation. Kobe relishes the chance to be in those situations. He's an assassin.

superboy · Star Player Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 3011

You know, in the 90's, I never believed that Kobe would be a clutch player, let alone one of the most amazing clutch players in history. Especially when we had a living example of clutch with Nick Van Exel on the team at the time, I thought you either have it or you don't. I didn't think you could "learn" to be clutch.

Not until that shot against Phoenix in 2000 did I really believe, even though there was a game earlier in Orlando where Kobe brought the team back in an amazing 2nd half. (Anyone remember that game, I swear I've seen someone mention that game inone of his signatures?)

From what I've seen, Kobe's the only person I've ever seen in the NBA to learn how to be clutch...and he learned it really well at that! Everyone else today who is clutch seems to always have had it, and the people that don't have it (ie Duncan) just don't seem to ever get it (thanks Derek!). I think the difference in Kobe is this loner, killer-instinct he has that is just unmatched in the league. Maybe it's because he lived in France for a while away from the typical American "and 1" attitude or something, but the guy is totally obsessed with basketball and being great at it. Lebrom doesn't have. As far as I'm concerned, Lebron seems to be a really good player who thinks he's even greater than everyone else thinks he is. The difference with Kobe is that Kobe actually tries to be greater than even HE thinks he is. Kobe pushes himself beyond his own limits. Lebron still isn't even half as great as other people think he is.

That's why I never criticize Kobe, ever. Even if he seems to screw up like that foul against Pierce, I hesitate. How can you criticize a guy who obsessively works his butt off to be the best? I don't care how arrogant or cocky he may seem...I just can't, with a good conscience, look at him and expect him to do more than he already makes himself do.

Socks · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject:

You probably need to be born with the desire, but develop it as a skill. One guy that comes to mind is Van Exel. In that Utah game, when Kobe chucked up those airballs, it probably shoulda been Van Exel, but he just didn't know how to make himself a factor. He has always had the swagger and the confidence, he just didn't know how to go about doing it. A few years later he was considered one of the top shooters in the last few seconds of the game. Granted, closing is a lot more than just those last few seconds, but if you watched him in tight games, he always seemed to get himself into the right place to make a big difference.

lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

YEa bron, bron come to l.a , we wont boo, and u wont have too close games

kobester · Star Player Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 1247

lebron's problem is his fear to fail. Just watched the halftime interview of cavs bulls game on TNT, when asked about being shut down by artest in the second half of the kings game, lebron said he's glad artest is in the west now so he won't face artest more than twice per year. Any mentally touch player wouldn't say things like this about his opponents. But he's young he might change. no one knows.
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effalllakerhaters · Starting Rotation Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 498

you can't learn to be a closer. you either got it in you or you don't.

lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

Asw we speak , lebron is stinking up another 4Q, and his cavs have blown a 20 something point half time lead too the offensive inept bulls.

lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

and he gave it up too a teamate with 21 seconds left, down by 1...

Socks · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject:

And he almost turned the ball over - if nocioni had hung on, the bulls might have one. And of course, it was Flip who hit the winning shot. Anyone notice how Reggie kept harping on Lebron that he had to be the man?

Lebron may get there, he's just not yet.

kells1220 · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject:

IMO he doesn't have that instinct. In the last two minutes of the game he didn't even shoot. Luckily Filip bailed them out.

lakers0505 · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701

(bleep) , we could have had , flip, he's would be a great spark and push smush for the starting pg role. But yea bron bron, doesnt like takin the last shot, that quiet evident, ala, k.g webber, etc, its been proven time and time over this year, its fact as off right now.

BygDaddy · Starting Rotation Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 556

It's not something you learn, it's innate. You're born with that. Sure you can start taking the big shot more but it won't make you a closer. You have to have it naturally to want to have the ball at the end and be willing to take the credit or blame for it.

lakers2626 · Star Player Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1948

I don't think Lebron is a closer and I think you either have it or not. Kobe when he was a rookie air balled a shot to win a play-off game. We didn't win but for a rookie taking a last shot in a play-off game shows me one thing from Kobe. Killer instints, and not being afraid. Yes Lebron is an amazing athlete, I made the comparison last year he was a more explosive Grant Hill, in his prime. I just think if you have you have it. Can't teach it can't learn it, which is just like Heart.

cr8zy0 · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:

keep in mind kobe used to let his team fall behind in college so he could come from behind and win. so he knew what it was like under pressure. sure it was against less talent but he still had the mentality of taking final shots. closing out games. he wanted to be the one in the spotlight win or lose its just his personality.
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Ziggy · Franchise Player Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712

LakersSpirit · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject:

I sometimes think about how Kobe developed his style... There's no way, for me, to know for sure, but... I imagine him visiting the professionals, when Kobe's Father was with the Euro-Leagues. I can also visualize Kobe visiting with NBA Players, and learning from them...

On the negative side[depending on how you see things], I can see NBA Players telling Kobe, about how the NBA is just a business, and just entertainment... They may have taught Kobe how to be a "showman", first, and a fundamental basketball player, second. Professionals may have told Kobe that the crowds will love him, more, if he shoots the game winning shot...?? If you're a decent shooter, the statistics should turn up just right, for you to be classified as a clutch 3 point shooter... In high school, especially, the game winning shot rules, and the star player usually takes that... Kobe may have just got used to being in that position, and he made it an integral part of his game.
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