Exile Sasha (to the NBDL)
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lakers0505
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject:

I for one like sasha and dont mind him, hes a nice player for this team.
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CrimsonLaker
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject:

Tony Montana wrote:
LakerGreatNumber8 wrote:
...are you kidding? Zero, I repeat ZERO of Billups' shots were him beating Sasha. CB just rose above Sasha and hit 3-pointers. If Sasha was any closer, Billups would have just hit Vujacic going up and would have gotten three free throws. It's hard to stop a guy who is on fire from 3-point land, just getting great height on his jumpers. We've seen Kobe do this to defenders quite often.


I haven't seen Kobe airball very many wide open three-pointers...


yeah, right...i see him do it every other night..

He also airballs 2 pointers on occasion...also remember the playoffs his rookie year...that's what I thought..
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Just_Looking wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
Just_Looking wrote:
Oh ... and TM. I hope your kid has a good coach ... he clearly is not learning any basketball knowledge from you.


Oooh, nice personal attack involving someone's kid. You are clearly intellectually heads and shoulders above the rest...

Just to answer your attack...
I AM my kids coach. My kid is eight, and is the starting point guard in league against 10-11 year olds.
So, he's not learning anything from me....
None other than Kobe Bryant thought differently when he watched my kid run the point a few months back (but that's another {long} story). I'll take his compliment over a bitter stranger's personal jibe any day


If you don't want your kid part of the discussion then don't be idiotic enough to bring him into it.

As to coaching ... don't flatter yourself. As a former college player (albeit not at div 1) who has coached from youth leagues through High School, I've watched far too many promising young players ruined by having their father coach them at an early age. I've had to bench players for following their father's poor advice.

And please ... stories about Kobe praising your son does not give you any more credibility even IF true.

As to your own personal basketball knowledge ... statements such as "Sasha is garbage" betrays your ignorance. Sasha's mistakes have all been those of youth and over enthusiasm. Claiming he has no ability or doesn't belong in the NBA further proves your ignorance. None other than your own BS claim to fame, Kobe sees the talent in Sasha. As does Phil Jackson. Although in your own mind I am certain you think yourself a better "coach". As a real coach, I'll take someone with Sasha's work ethic and desire to improve anyday over the prima donna who thinks they already know it all.


You're "college" experience and "coaching" experience (even if true) don't necessarily give you insight into my situation; of course father's often push their son's too hard; that's why I have started weaning my kid off of myself, and got him a former pro to do personal coaching for him. It's always his decision, and if he doesn't want to do it anymore, I won't force him.

Back to Sasha; I can appreciate work ethic and it's value; that said, I don't think Sasha is a long-term bet for the big show. I don't think he will be there five years from now. You may see different, so we'll agree to disagree. I've seen plenty of guys who look great in practice, but just never learn how to translate their skill set and enthusiasm into game situations. I fear Sasha is one of those guys.

By the way, if you feel so strongly that you are a great, experienced basketball mind, and I am a moron(and I am not claiming to be John Wooden here, btw, I am just expressing an opinion), then why must every post you make contain name calling or a personal attack?


Last edited by Tony Montana on Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:10 pm    Post subject:

CrimsonLaker wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
LakerGreatNumber8 wrote:
...are you kidding? Zero, I repeat ZERO of Billups' shots were him beating Sasha. CB just rose above Sasha and hit 3-pointers. If Sasha was any closer, Billups would have just hit Vujacic going up and would have gotten three free throws. It's hard to stop a guy who is on fire from 3-point land, just getting great height on his jumpers. We've seen Kobe do this to defenders quite often.


I haven't seen Kobe airball very many wide open three-pointers...


yeah, right...i see him do it every other night..

He also airballs 2 pointers on occasion...also remember the playoffs his rookie year...that's what I thought..


That's the difference between a guy like Kobe, and a guy like Sasha (and, let's face it, most of the guys in the league)...
Kobe put up those airballs (what seems like a lifetime ago); he didn't lose confidence, he didn't have fear; instead he improved his game, and built an even thicker skin, and desire to get those shots again. I don't expect everyone to have Kobe's killer instinct and confidence, but I would hope just a little of it would rub off. I don't see it in Sasha, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO BE PROVEN WRONG ON THIS
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject:

Screw NBA politics. I bet there are 20+ guards better than Sasha in the D-league yet he's wasting a spot on this roster...

He was in a pro league before he was drafted so there's no excuses. Face it, the kid CAN'T PLAY...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject:

Kobe2Lamar wrote:
Screw NBA politics. I bet there are 20+ guards better than Sasha in the D-league yet he's wasting a spot on this roster...

He was in a pro league before he was drafted so there's no excuses. Face it, the kid CAN'T PLAY...


The one better than average thing about Sasha is he moves after the ball is shot and thereby gets a fair share of rebounds. Other Lakers should take note.

But he is (at best) an average passer.

He's NOT good at handling the ball with pressure.

He doesn't have the speed and moves of most of the guards in the league.

Defense? Well, he is so scared of getting taken off the dribble that he plays well off his man--leaving the jumper available all night long.

But the killer is he just can't shoot in game situations. He is probably one of the worst shooting guards in the League. I honestly don't know why. I think maybe he shoots outside his range. For a while he was launching the ball too flat with too much velocity--hitting the back of the rim a lot.

Our scouts really got burned on this guy.

I doubt he could even hold a D-League starting position.

Jax--lock the kid in a gym 4 hours a day and make him shoot jumpers over and over and over again.
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angel
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject:

Sasha is getting there. He's playing good enough defense to get minutes. the shooting will come later.
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Sidious
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject:

Did you guys see Sasha try and dribble the ball up the court behind his back and the ball went right off his foot. How is this guy supposed to be a point guard when he can't even dribble or push the ball up the court. The guy is skilless
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject:

Smush starts over Sasha for good (if marginal) reason.

But on defense, Sasha has the edge.

Not drastically, but he does, IMO.

Sasha's defense tonight, as someone else has already pointed out I see,
wasn't that bad on Rip.

Rip was elevating over him for shots, and Sasha most times had a hand
in his face. It's hard to guard that fadeaway against a player like Rip
when you're in Sasha's body

Again, not saying the guy is all-world or something, but he's not as
terrible as some make him out.

If you wanna chastise him for something, call him out for not being able
to finish around the rim.

That's something he needs to seriously work on.
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uberzev
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject:

Sasha did the best he could out there. Its not like there are any backup point guards available that are better than him.
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CBaller8
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:43 pm    Post subject:

sodapoppenski wrote:
Smush starts over Sasha for good (if marginal) reason.

But on defense, Sasha has the edge.

Not drastically, but he does, IMO.

Sasha's defense tonight, as someone else has already pointed out I see,
wasn't that bad on Rip.

Rip was elevating over him for shots, and Sasha most times had a hand
in his face. It's hard to guard that fadeaway against a player like Rip
when you're in Sasha's body

Again, not saying the guy is all-world or something, but he's not as
terrible as some make him out.

If you wanna chastise him for something, call him out for not being able
to finish around the rim.

That's something he needs to seriously work on.
\
He'll never be able to finish strong at the rim...NO athleticism. Smush on the other hand...me likey.
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Sidious
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject:

Sasha is like the 5th or 6th best ball handler on the team. How is a back up point guard gonna be a liabilty handling the ball? It's ridiculous. How this guy was picked in the first round is beyond me.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject:

CBaller8 wrote:
sodapoppenski wrote:
Smush starts over Sasha for good (if marginal) reason.

But on defense, Sasha has the edge.

Not drastically, but he does, IMO.

Sasha's defense tonight, as someone else has already pointed out I see,
wasn't that bad on Rip.

Rip was elevating over him for shots, and Sasha most times had a hand
in his face. It's hard to guard that fadeaway against a player like Rip
when you're in Sasha's body

Again, not saying the guy is all-world or something, but he's not as
terrible as some make him out.

If you wanna chastise him for something, call him out for not being able
to finish around the rim.

That's something he needs to seriously work on.
\
He'll never be able to finish strong at the rim...NO athleticism. Smush on the other hand...me likey.


Yup on both counts. Although that's not to say Sasha can't work on it and
go from tragic to some semblance of decency finishing around the rim

As for Smush... it's kind of funny how that works.

Sasha has the better handle on a drive, but doesn't drive because he
knows he's a terrible finisher.

Smush finishes AWESOME most of the time, yet loses his handle in traffic
too much.

The good thing is Smush can work on that alot easier than Sasha can work
on finishing...

If you were to knock Smush it's his gambles and overpursuits on D more
than anything else, IMO.

Either way, given their prices - they're both bargains for their talent right
now.

It's not Smush's or Sasha's fault that we don't have a starting NBA-calibur
PG or backu SG on the roster and that they have to play the minutes they
play.
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject:

sodapoppenski wrote:
CBaller8 wrote:
sodapoppenski wrote:
Smush starts over Sasha for good (if marginal) reason.

But on defense, Sasha has the edge.

Not drastically, but he does, IMO.

Sasha's defense tonight, as someone else has already pointed out I see,
wasn't that bad on Rip.

Rip was elevating over him for shots, and Sasha most times had a hand
in his face. It's hard to guard that fadeaway against a player like Rip
when you're in Sasha's body

Again, not saying the guy is all-world or something, but he's not as
terrible as some make him out.

If you wanna chastise him for something, call him out for not being able
to finish around the rim.

That's something he needs to seriously work on.
\
He'll never be able to finish strong at the rim...NO athleticism. Smush on the other hand...me likey.


Yup on both counts. Although that's not to say Sasha can't work on it and
go from tragic to some semblance of decency finishing around the rim

As for Smush... it's kind of funny how that works.

Sasha has the better handle on a drive, but doesn't drive because he
knows he's a terrible finisher.

Smush finishes AWESOME most of the time, yet loses his handle in traffic
too much.

The good thing is Smush can work on that alot easier than Sasha can work
on finishing...

If you were to knock Smush it's his gambles and overpursuits on D more
than anything else, IMO.

Either way, given their prices - they're both bargains for their talent right
now.

It's not Smush's or Sasha's fault that we don't have a starting NBA-calibur
PG or backu SG on the roster and that they have to play the minutes they
play.


How can you even compare Sasha to Smush?

Do you watch the games? Smush has great ability, obviously needs better coaching.

Sasha is overmatched and I am following an 18 year old HS player named Chase Budinger who is far better than Sasha right now. Far far better.

Lakers reached and missed on Vujacic. Thinking Peja, instead got the first Euro who cannot shoot, handle the ball or do anything other than get used.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject:

Sidious wrote:
Sasha is like the 5th or 6th best ball handler on the team. How is a back up point guard gonna be a liabilty handling the ball? It's ridiculous. How this guy was picked in the first round is beyond me.


Going back to the GS game, in the first quarter, did you see how many times Fisher just breaks him down off the dribble and get into the lane? This is Fisher, not Chris Paul or Steve Nash.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
sodapoppenski wrote:
CBaller8 wrote:
sodapoppenski wrote:
Smush starts over Sasha for good (if marginal) reason.

But on defense, Sasha has the edge.

Not drastically, but he does, IMO.

Sasha's defense tonight, as someone else has already pointed out I see,
wasn't that bad on Rip.

Rip was elevating over him for shots, and Sasha most times had a hand
in his face. It's hard to guard that fadeaway against a player like Rip
when you're in Sasha's body

Again, not saying the guy is all-world or something, but he's not as
terrible as some make him out.

If you wanna chastise him for something, call him out for not being able
to finish around the rim.

That's something he needs to seriously work on.
\
He'll never be able to finish strong at the rim...NO athleticism. Smush on the other hand...me likey.


Yup on both counts. Although that's not to say Sasha can't work on it and
go from tragic to some semblance of decency finishing around the rim

As for Smush... it's kind of funny how that works.

Sasha has the better handle on a drive, but doesn't drive because he
knows he's a terrible finisher.

Smush finishes AWESOME most of the time, yet loses his handle in traffic
too much.

The good thing is Smush can work on that alot easier than Sasha can work
on finishing...

If you were to knock Smush it's his gambles and overpursuits on D more
than anything else, IMO.

Either way, given their prices - they're both bargains for their talent right
now.

It's not Smush's or Sasha's fault that we don't have a starting NBA-calibur
PG or backu SG on the roster and that they have to play the minutes they
play.


How can you even compare Sasha to Smush?

Do you watch the games? Smush has great ability, obviously needs better coaching.

Sasha is overmatched and I am following an 18 year old HS player named Chase Budinger who is far better than Sasha right now. Far far better.

Lakers reached and missed on Vujacic. Thinking Peja, instead got the first Euro who cannot shoot, handle the ball or do anything other than get used.


Smush offensively and athletically > Sasha

Sasha defensively > Smush

Smush's edge in that first category earns him the starting role between
the two.

I'm not saying they're equal players.

Simply saying Sasha has an edge in one particular department.

That, and that we're still paying both of them roughly as little as you can
pay a player in the NBA.

With a starting PG, Smush would be our backup, take some backup SG
minutes too - and Sasha would see alot less time.

Again, not their fault we don't have that extra guy to start.

Apparently we thought that would be McKie.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:14 am    Post subject:

Kobe2Lamar wrote:
Screw NBA politics. I bet there are 20+ guards better than Sasha in the D-league yet he's wasting a spot on this roster...

He was in a pro league before he was drafted so there's no excuses. Face it, the kid CAN'T PLAY...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:43 am    Post subject:

Sasha will be a shooter in this league or be out of the league. He is basically a younger version of Dunleavy Jr. at this time.

Both guys have great form, are known for their range and ability to knock down everything in practice, but can't score a lick in a game.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject:

Tony Montana wrote:

You're "college" experience and "coaching" experience (even if true) don't necessarily give you insight into my situation; of course father's often push their son's too hard; that's why I have started weaning my kid off of myself, and got him a former pro to do personal coaching for him. It's always his decision, and if he doesn't want to do it anymore, I won't force him.

Back to Sasha; I can appreciate work ethic and it's value; that said, I don't think Sasha is a long-term bet for the big show. I don't think he will be there five years from now. You may see different, so we'll agree to disagree. I've seen plenty of guys who look great in practice, but just never learn how to translate their skill set and enthusiasm into game situations. I fear Sasha is one of those guys.

By the way, if you feel so strongly that you are a great, experienced basketball mind, and I am a moron(and I am not claiming to be John Wooden here, btw, I am just expressing an opinion), then why must every post you make contain name calling or a personal attack?



Let's address the last point first. I watched you sarcastically respond to anyone who posted an argument against your original post ... a post that contained not a single thread of logic ... and I decvided to reposnd in kind. Once again, if you don't want to be personally attacked, then don't start it. You come across as a typical bully. It's OK for you to try and push people around but when someone returns the favor ... you cry and whine.

Second, if you don't want someone like me getting in your face then simply use LOGIC when you criticize one of our Lakers. ANd make it CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Words like garbage and calling one of our own a ten dollar ho is not only counterproductive but a clear sign of a lack of basketball acumen. And if you think constant harping from their own fans doesn't affect prpo players ... you are sadly mistaken.

Finally, as far as whether or not my experience gives me insight into your situation. Yes it does. Despite your belief that you are unique and walking ground never before traversed ... A friend of mine was coaching a varisty middle school team and asked me to spend a little time with his team and give him some advice about a particular young man he had on his team. Since he would (hopefully) eventually play for me, I was glad to do so.

This kid was a 7th grade, 12 years old, and already 6'3" with an incredible pedigree. His father had been a solid div 1 player as had his mother. His older brother had decided on football and played div 1. But his father had decided this kid was his last, great hope for a professional in the family. Like you, he coached him early and then hired personal trainers. Like you he pushed him to play against older, better competition. Unfortunately, you could already see what this was doing to this young man even at the age of 12. He was becoming uncoachable and a poor teammate. Yes ... he could dominate games as a 7th and 8th grader. Big deal. The world is full of players who mature earlier than others and can dominate at a young age. But I'll take the kid who matures late in life and has to learn to play the game properly. Give me the kid who struggles and works hard to learn to be a better player anyday. When THAT kid matures, HE is the one who becomes that special player. Think Michael Jordan ... who was actually cut from his HS JV team.

If your son is truly talented, I hope you haven't already ruined him. That great young player I mentioned above? He became a second string JVer and eventually quit playing altogether. Really a shame. He just couldn't handle it when others caught up with his size advantage. His father ruined him.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject:

Look, Looking, I'm not going to argue with you back and forth forever; one or both of us is going to end up in trouble with the mods, because you think I'm a bully and a moron; and I think you are a pompous jerk. It will get ugly sooner than later:

That said:
Don't call me a bully, when you have a history around LG of telling anyone you don't like to "go back to Texas" (whatever the hell that means).
-I love the MJ story; everyone loves to tell it; what everyone leaves out is that he grows six inches before he comes back to try out again. Sure, he worked hard on his game, but six inches made the difference. I've heard him admit as much...
-My son is considered by others to be very coachable. Like I said before, I'm pulling back and letting him be guided by others with more basketball experience, knowledge, and knowledge than you or I. I don't push him; it's always his decision, and I've made that clear to him. He has a love for the sport that only comes from within, so I don't have to push him. He plays in older leagues because, literally, he isn't allowed to play at his own age level; between league officials and parents of other kids, it is seen as unfair to the other kids his age; it isn't in his, or their best interest. He doesn't like playing his own age group anyways; again, playing up was "encouraged" by the league, and he likes it that way. He is no genetic freak. He is one of the smaller players in his own age group, and always, by far, the smallest in the higher grades. He practices hard, and doesn't fear bigger guys. That comes from within, and credit goes to him. Quit projecting your experience with nutty sports dads on me. My son's path, his continuation or cessation with the sport will always be up to him. I just make sure he has all the tools and options available so long as he decides he wants to make the committment of time and effort (and passion) to playing the game.

Oh, and I gave up on constructive criticism with Sasha months ago. Yes, my jibes in a vacuum look bad, but I have plenty of critical posts about him that detail exactly why I don't like him, his strengths vs. weaknesess, etc. I don't reinvent the wheel every time I post, and yes, sometimes I vent. It's a message board; venting is par for the course; get used to it.

Good day, sir.
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Muad'Dib
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject:

...and the Sasha defenders are still at it. Unbelievable.

"He tried," right? Pfft.

On the 3 Billups nailed in the corner, the shot clock was down to ~3, he had picked up his dribble and was cornered. What does Sasha do? Stay down in his crouch with his hands at chest level. What was he thinking? He needs to stand up, "get long," use the corner and trap him back there. Instead, Chauncey casually lifts and busts in Sasha's eye.

Sasha has trouble even advancing the ball vs the press. His shot, while looking pretty as always, was o-f-f. Though he did have a nice look on that pseudo-break when he scooped up the loose ball.

And don't even get me started on the 3 from Billups at the end of the half, Sasha could give Fisher a run for his money with that picture perfect Ole! stance.

I appreciate his zeal and enthusiasm, but it's about time to send him to the glue factory in Fort Worth.
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mike_dee23
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject:

It's funny, the Lakers win their biggest game in 2 seasons and people still find time to piss and moan about something. NO second year player plays well game in and game out. Sasha has good moments and he has bad... but he's improved and brings effort to every game. Last night was probably a bad moment and leave it at that.
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chazz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:47 am    Post subject:

No Mike it will not ne left at that.......what should be left is Sasha out of the rotation....He brings nothing to the table and that is why PJ finally gave him no minutes in the second half because he has no basketbal IQ....When I hear people saying effort and improvement....WHERE???? Sorry your fighter Cooney lost to Holmes..
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