View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
jmac78 wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | jmac78 wrote: | Name one PG "stopper" in the league who can stop Tony Parker from penetrating into the paint. He's elite. That's why he leads the league in points in the paint.
Stopping TP is a team effort. Ask Gary "The Glove" Payton. |
You don't need top "stop" him necessarily, just buy some time for the defense to react.
Anyone notice when Odom switched on Parker, Parker was a little less effective because he was bothered by the height and length?
He still blew by Odom. However, he widened his drive, bought time for Kwame to rotate, and took a poor shot.
That example is why I've been so adamant about lateral quickness, wingspan, athleticism at the PG slot. It's exactly what Billups does for Detroit.
Part of the reason why it doesn't work for Phoenix is because they switch EVERY time it's necessary. Mike D'Antoni is smart in that, he compensates with lack of size for quickness and footspeed. Rotations are quick. Energy is high. Phoenix wins most of their games without Stoudemire. |
On th surface, Smush would seem to be the PG you've wanted. He is quick, athletic, good wingspan, the only thing is he lacks consistent effort. I didn't watch the game last night (not televised here), so I couldn't see his play against Parker. |
Parker has been inconsistent defensively this year. However, it took Sasha basically 1 off-season to play better position defense and take it more seriously.
Imagine Parker with that kind of training. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kups Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 1716
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kobester wrote: | It's not all about offense or all about defense. It's about finding a winning balance between these two. You can play supreme offense but mediocre defense and win games (like the suns), or you can play average offense but extraordinary defense and win games (like the pistons of last year) |
I'm with you on this. The way the rules have been changed in favor of the guards (you can't even touch them), I can't see any effective way of stopping these speedy penetrators, except maybe send them down as Odom did to send a message. Having a 2-way PG, esp. 1 with penetrating /post-up ability would put pressure on the opposing guard to exert more effort on the defensive end, burning him out or limiting his effectiveness. Duhon anyone? _________________ #2 Lonzo
#28 Derrick White, Jordan Bell, Deonte Burton |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Voice Of Reason Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Posts: 600
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kups: yeah.
For Tony Parker in particular, I think it would be great to have a guy who can go right back at him. Physical, punishing, strong as a bull in the post. Chauncey Billups, Gary Payton in his prime, are there any other guards like that today really? _________________ David Thorpe: If Lamar Odom was 6'5", he'd be a shoe salesman. If Kevin Garnett was 6'2", he'd be Rajon Rondo.
Henry Abbott: Coach Thorpe, what makes you think Lamar Odom has what it takes to succeed in the competitive world of shoe sales? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
C-BUS LAKERFAN Star Player
Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 1441
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gr8testEver wrote: | Banks
Duhon
Barbosa
All of these were in the Lakers grasp but circumstances and incompetence stood in the way. |
Hopefully Banks is signed in the off-season with part of our MLE. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tlim Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2002 Posts: 6648
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: |
Imagine Parker with that kind of training. |
Yeah, the problem is that it will only be just in our imagination.
It's like asking Shaq to come into the season, physically fit. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mjr. Pwnage Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 472 Location: La Tierra De Los Gauchos
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gr8testEver wrote: | Banks
Duhon
Barbosa
All of these were in the Lakers grasp but circumstances and incompetence stood in the way. |
My PG wish list for the future is (in order):
Mo Williams
Chris Duhon
Jason Terry
Terry should require more $$$ than the others. _________________ You tryin' to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tlim wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: |
Imagine Parker with that kind of training. |
Yeah, the problem is that it will only be just in our imagination.
It's like asking Shaq to come into the season, physically fit. |
What makes you think that?
Did you forget how hard he had to work overseas just to come back to the NBA? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Muad'Dib Star Player
Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 3903
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | jmac78 wrote: | Name one PG "stopper" in the league who can stop Tony Parker from penetrating into the paint. He's elite. That's why he leads the league in points in the paint.
Stopping TP is a team effort. Ask Gary "The Glove" Payton. |
You don't need top "stop" him necessarily, just buy some time for the defense to react.
|
Exactly.
The PG needs to at least be able to level off the penetration--make the opposition change direction once or even twice on a consistent basis, that is usually the most you can ask for.
Sasha gets blown by on the first step, as does Smush when he isn't on his toes or is caught reaching. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hydro21 Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 2392 Location: NYC
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TG711 wrote: | Gr8testEver wrote: | Banks
Duhon
Barbosa
All of these were in the Lakers grasp but circumstances and incompetence stood in the way. |
My PG wish list for the future is (in order):
Mo Williams
Chris Duhon
Jason Terry
Terry should require more $$$ than the others. |
Terry definetly would be nice not great defensivly but can steal and he would be the 1stpg we ever had that could lite bibby up |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Addicus Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 9642 Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Like aforementioned, it is nearly impossible to stop T. Parker in today's NBA. This is why I hate the no hand check rule. You could put one hand on the guys hip, which allowed the defender an opportunity to change a guy's direction. Any good guard could still get to the hoop, but it meant less fouls, better game flow and an opportunity for better defensive rotation.
T. Parker is the ultimate PG in today's game due to the no touch rule. Nash is not far behind. Both can get into the paint at will and allow 3 point shooters to spot up and drop em like we say last night in the 2nd half of the Lakers game and every game the Suns have played.
Ron Harper, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper and others have said they would not be nearly as effective in today's game due to this. They use to body up guards and you can't do that anymore. I really think the rule is making the game an ugly FT shooting contest.
For anyone wondering, Smush would be dangerous with the mid 90's defensive rules. For real. Sasha would be okay, but would need to gain weight.
The other rule that sucks is this legal Zone crap. Scrap it and go back to man on man and doubling only the man with the ball. With the age limit changing I think in 2 or 3 years we will see some rules reverting. _________________ Stop crying and start doing.
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/addicusbrown |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Ron Harper, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper and others have said they would not be nearly as effective in today's game due to this. They use to body up guards and you can't do that anymore. I really think the rule is making the game an ugly FT shooting contest. |
While I agree they may not be as effective as they were before, they still would be among the best defenders out of sheer length and the ability to space a PG to beat him to positions on the floor. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thumpinghead Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 5657
|
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mihm has learned to not attack drivers to the paint bc he NEVER gets the call
Smush should stay in front of his man more, but hes all we have,
and thats Mitch's fault! _________________ Kevin Love. 2015. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | Quote: | Could be... However, as long as redemption exist the olive leaf still has a function... |
It is. This must be the 2nd or 3rd time you've done this, he comes back. You both quarrel. He leaves. You don't change. |
If Sky comes back, this I promise you Mike. I will not do that again. We have a lot of people in here now who just like to aggrivate, and start (bleep). I had no idea how much an intelligent poster meant to this board. We need Sky back here, and I promise even in disagreements I'll be respectful... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Who is this sky, u talk off and y is he in hiding? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
sodapoppenski wrote: | GameCock-MD wrote: | I can't wait for my SHOES Apology thread... |
Not sure he even owes me one for anything but I'll take one anyways! |
Alright, soda I like you man.. I thought we were cool, but just in case.
Here ya go...
To my main man soda with my aplogies _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mike is right.
I saw the switch where Odom was on Parker. Parker struggled to get free and while eventually he did get by him it also allowed Odom the oppurtunity to come from behind and swat a shot attempt inside the paint.
It's funny. I have been wondering why Phil hasn't used any zone consistently. We could really use some of that in certain games.
The question is - who is this PG with 7' wingspan like Lamar but with better footwork and quickness?
Say Barbosa and I'll have to shoot you |
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Poor leanardo was getting in trouble last year for of all things not being serious on defense as I remember. He may have picked it up though Wolfy because the Suns haven't considered moving him, and I think they had a chance last season even while they were blasting him... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
lakers0505 wrote: | Who is this sky, u talk off and y is he in hiding? |
Sky is a poster with an encylclepedic mind when it comes to basketball... This is also why he gets frustrated when he gets into disagreements with others. He is that sharp but, can be biased at times like anybody else... The guy is brilliant though. He, and I used to get into it because of his legendary hate of Derek Fishers game.
You know me by now right? When I like a player I hate it when people jump all over said player.
Anyway when Sky gets pissed he leaves to chill out. He left I believe early last season, and hasn't been back since... Normally after awhile he'll strole back in...
The board needs guys like Sky though just to balance some of the ignorance around here... I ain't going to call no names, but maaannn whoa! DDDDaaaammmnnn! _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RYZ Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1393
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | tlim wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: |
Imagine Parker with that kind of training. |
Yeah, the problem is that it will only be just in our imagination.
It's like asking Shaq to come into the season, physically fit. |
What makes you think that?
Did you forget how hard he had to work overseas just to come back to the NBA? |
I think if you look at his defensive tenacity pre-guaranteed contract vs. post-guarantee, it doesn't bode well for the future.
The key with Smush (as with most) seems to be incentive. When he was cut by Cleveland ostensibly for his attitude and unwillingness to do what was asked of him by the coaching staff, he did indeed go to Europe and come back twice the player he was, especially improving his jumper. But if you contrast his 'D' earlier in the year with now, he looks like a tenured vet with nothing to prove. He never liked to move his feet very much, but at least at the start of the season he looked like he gave a damn. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vvbandit Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 2413 Location: Newport Coast
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
This Sky you speak of seems like a good poster is it possible to trade Shoes for Sky b/c id definately be interestedin that move |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
RYZ wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | tlim wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: |
Imagine Parker with that kind of training. |
Yeah, the problem is that it will only be just in our imagination.
It's like asking Shaq to come into the season, physically fit. |
What makes you think that?
Did you forget how hard he had to work overseas just to come back to the NBA? |
I think if you look at his defensive tenacity pre-guaranteed contract vs. post-guarantee, it doesn't bode well for the future.
The key with Smush (as with most) seems to be incentive. When he was cut by Cleveland ostensibly for his attitude and unwillingness to do what was asked of him by the coaching staff, he did indeed go to Europe and come back twice the player he was, especially improving his jumper. But if you contrast his 'D' earlier in the year with now, he looks like a tenured vet with nothing to prove. He never liked to move his feet very much, but at least at the start of the season he looked like he gave a damn. |
I think you're selling him short. The D isn't the same compared to it was in the SPL because of level of competition. It's not like he has a long contract either and he's dirt cheap. The upside is there, unlike other Laker PGs with guaranteed contracts for more money. Think Sasha improved his D overnight? So why did it take 2-3 years? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RYZ Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1393
|
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | I think you're selling him short. The D isn't the same compared to it was in the SPL because of level of competition. It's not like he has a long contract either and he's dirt cheap. The upside is there, unlike other Laker PGs with guaranteed contracts for more money. Think Sasha improved his D overnight? So why did it take 2-3 years? |
I wasn't referring to what we saw in the SPL, I meant the first month of the season when he looked like he had something to prove. I understand his contract status which is why I'm astounded at how far his defensive activity level has fallen in 2½ months: Once his K became guaranteed he started playing 'D' like he was locked in for the next decade.
I agree with you, the upside is definitely there. He has the footspeed, the freak arms, and the quick hands to be nice defensively. He does a decent job taking charges and rebounds well for his size/position, and he anticipates well, but he's shown very little willingness to fight through screens and I'm not yet convinced of his lateral reactionary quickness.
I don't want to sell Smush short: He's a heck of a talent and better than any Laker PG in recent memory at getting to the rack. I'm just not encouraged about his defense after the last couple months of play. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|