| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote: | Nash or Kobe.
This has nothing to do with the MVP argument...but how many wins would the Lakers have if we had Nash instead of Kobe? Just curious. |
A what if question. Can't be answered.
We just know the facts. Nash, without his best interior player, an elite PF in the West, is winning a crapload of ball games. Period.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
KwamesMyGuy
Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 3630
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | ^That's his fault he can't maximize it.
Big hint. Nash ran basically a pick and roll offense on a VERY talented offensive unit in Dallas. What's the difference... |
Suns offense is close but not quite the same. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KwamesMyGuy
Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 3630
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | SHAQ/KOBE=#1 wrote: | Nash or Kobe.
This has nothing to do with the MVP argument...but how many wins would the Lakers have if we had Nash instead of Kobe? Just curious. |
A what if question. Can't be answered.
We just know the facts. Nash, without his best interior player, an elite PF in the West, is winning a crapload of ball games. Period. |
I guess u forgot about that other allstar who you said yourself was better than Odom. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| THE_BUTLER_DID_IT wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | ^That's his fault he can't maximize it.
Big hint. Nash ran basically a pick and roll offense on a VERY talented offensive unit in Dallas. What's the difference... |
Suns offense is close but not quite the same. |
Unreal. It's pointless to argue with a stubborn head. 60% of both of them ran on pick and rolls.
The difference? Nash has more footspeed on the floor. Guards are playing PF and C. That's it.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KwamesMyGuy
Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 3630
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | THE_BUTLER_DID_IT wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | ^That's his fault he can't maximize it.
Big hint. Nash ran basically a pick and roll offense on a VERY talented offensive unit in Dallas. What's the difference... |
Suns offense is close but not quite the same. |
Unreal. It's pointless to argue with a stubborn head. 60% of both of them ran on pick and rolls.
The difference? Nash has more footspeed on the floor. Guards are playing PF and C. That's it. |
dallas off was more one on one. Phx relies more on ball movement & getting open shots |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KwamesMyGuy
Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 3630
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | Unreal. It's pointless to argue with a stubborn head. 60% of both of them ran on pick and rolls.
The difference? Nash has more footspeed on the floor. Guards are playing PF and C. That's it. |
why the insult mike? I thought we was past that. were having a nice lil debate. even though i disagree with you im not calling you stubborn. you have your reasons for why you believe what you believe & i have mine. does that make you stubborn because you disagree with me? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tgf5
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 11581
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| THE_BUTLER_DID_IT wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | THE_BUTLER_DID_IT wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | ^That's his fault he can't maximize it.
Big hint. Nash ran basically a pick and roll offense on a VERY talented offensive unit in Dallas. What's the difference... |
Suns offense is close but not quite the same. |
Unreal. It's pointless to argue with a stubborn head. 60% of both of them ran on pick and rolls.
The difference? Nash has more footspeed on the floor. Guards are playing PF and C. That's it. |
dallas off was more one on one. Phx relies more on ball movement & getting open shots |
Phoenix relies on Nash's penetration and either dishing or taking the close shot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If you're going to say that Kobe is more valuable than Nash, it is unwise to base your argument on what they do on the offensive end because Nash is the most dominant offensive player in the game. His ability to maximize the potential of almost every single possession is unparalleled. He's not even close to Kobe defensively, though. That's what you should be arguing. I think that after a somewhat slow start to the year, Kobe has been awesome defensively over the last 6 weeks or so. All in all, I agree with Mike, I'd pick Nash by a small margin over Kobe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tgf5
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 11581
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheQuestForSeventeen wrote: | | If you're going to say that Kobe is more valuable than Nash, it is unwise to base your argument on what they do on the offensive end because Nash is the most dominant offensive player in the game. His ability to maximize the potential of almost every single possession is unparalleled. He's not even close to Kobe defensively, though. That's what you should be arguing. I think that after a somewhat slow start to the year, Kobe has been awesome defensively over the last 6 weeks or so. All in all, I agree with Mike, I'd pick Nash by a small margin over Kobe. |
In regards to steals defense? Yes. Man on Man defense? No. Kobe has not been putting in the effort in man2man defense but rather roaming and trying to disturb the oppositions offense. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| this should be locked, its starting too look , like a bunch of sour losers who are mad and want everyone too agree with them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KwamesMyGuy
Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 3630
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| My argument is about who team needs them more. Thats how you determine whos has more value to their team. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
^Poor basis. Like, the 80s Lakers didn't need Magic Johnson because he had Worthy, Scott, and AC Green around him?
I guess Magic didn't deserve it in '91.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nash is the MVP at this point, guys.
Nothing we can do about it.
In the NBA, they value the MVP for the player that takes his team from the lottery to the highest spot in the playoffs.
Kobe takes his team from the lottery to the low playoff seed. Nash takes his team from the lottery to the top 2 spot.
Nash will win it again. Kobe has too much hate to win it like Jordan did that one year in the 80's despite having a low playoff seed.
Unless somehow, The Lakers can get on a run and finish with 46-48 wins (Atleast 10 games over). But in all likelihood the Lakers finish with 42-44 wins and the Suns with 55-57 wins.
Look at all the MVP's in recent seasons. All of them have one thing in common. They are on an elite team.
2000 - Shaq Lakers 67 wins
2001 - Iverson Philly 56 wins
2002 - Duncan Spurs 58 wins
2003 - Duncan Spurs 58 wins
2004 - Garnett Wolves 61 wins
2005 - Nash Suns 62 wins
This season expect that trend to continue. Only teams with 55-60+ wins will get consideration for the MVP. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 1309
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
I do not quite ready to accept Nash making Diaw better yet. This is Diaw's breakout season. Before the draft, people had said that Diaw could do what he is doing. With or without Hash, Diaw was due to have a good year.
I only watch the Suns a few times but I noticed that many time it was Diaw that was getting other people (including Nash) in place to score ..
Diaw is one of the very few guys that can play all five positions ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kobe2Clark
Star Player
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 6047
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think it's a joke that the MVP award is pretty much based on how good the players around you are. Seems like only baseball gets it right with their voting...
Also, why should Nash get it over Dirk or even Parker?
_________________
"My thirst for domination is fed only by the game. I refuse to get distracted by outside forces." - Kobe Bryant |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
re4ee
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 12237
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe the thinking should fo something like this...
The Suns w/o Nash are closer to the same competitiveness than the Lakers w/o Kobe.
Kobe's been legit MVP material for many seasons w/o recieving the award. (I know it's supposed to be based on the current season, but so is the best director Oscar, but it doesn't work that way in real life).
As much as it could be argued that Kobe should have won the MVP before this, he IS having an absolutely stellar season this year.
Nash's productivity is more attributable to the Suns' offensive system than is Kobe's.
Any sane GM on the planet would choose to build a team around Kobe Bryant than Steve Nash.
Kobe's skill set is wider, deeper, and more valuable than Nash's.
Kobe contributes in more ways to the Lakers' success than any of those other player do for their teams.
Care to add anything? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kobe2Lamar wrote: | I think it's a joke that the MVP award is pretty much based on how good the players around you are. Seems like only baseball gets it right with their voting...
Also, why should Nash get it over Dirk or even Parker? |
I agree.
But this won't be the first season.
I recall KG having a better year than Duncan in 2003, but TD winning it because his team was on top of the standings and KG's wasn't. And KG's Wolves finished higher than the Lakers will this season.
So while it's probably not fair, it's not the first season that this whole process has been going on. The MVP has been picked only from the elite teams for a long time now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
re4ee
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 12237
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Wynns Pick for MVP |
|
|
| Don't know what these are based on, but Brand with better odds than Iverson and James? Nowitzki a better bet than Duncan? I think I'd put my money on AI... 20:1? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 1309
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think AI is playing better ball than the year he won MVP. His scoring is comparable but his assist number is much better.
Diaw played a game without Nash. His stats are 16/9/9. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
