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| How do you feel about Sasha? |
| Love him! |
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31% |
[ 32 ] |
| Hate that piece of trash! |
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19% |
[ 20 ] |
| Mixed... |
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49% |
[ 50 ] |
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| Total Votes : 102 |
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Message |
daniel80111
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 281
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 Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| People that hate Sasha have much more valid arguments than the people that say they love him...thats the bottom line. We call it like we see it. And what we see is not exactly what we want. |
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_#1_
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 4752
Location: Next door to 24
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I hated the Sasha pick then and now. Wanted badly to trade out that year.
I don't like Sasha's game. I too think he can't defend well. His shotting is spotty. Passing poor.
Biggest beef is no ability to take it to the hole. No fouls. Little to aid the spot ups in the Tri.
But I do take some issue with Sky's stat remark. Sasha does have a better than avg. defensive PER. His offensive PER is about like Kwame. Sasha a defender not a scorer? Goes against logic but the numbers are there.
What SKY argues is the assist factor of his man (the pg opp) makes up by letting the entire team score instead. IF that was the case then the Defense: per 100 poss. which reflects total team scoring while on/off would go up. In fact Sasha has a -4.7. So that assist arguement doesn't jive with that. That stat can be grossly throw off by a player like Kobe who plays most of the minutes except scrub to scrub time. Or it can be thrown off by the opposite, a bench warmer who goes in only at garbage time. Sasha is neither. His minutes mix over the whole game so those on/off stats for once should be at least somewhat accurate.
If Sasha developed a steady 3 pointer than I would keep him as a fourth guard. Otherwise it's adios. |
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lakersdynasty999
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 1893
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| kobe_somebody_odom wrote: | Third member of the Sahsa V club 
How could you not like somebody that looks up to Kobe, and plays hard. Those are the two most important qualities in putting a ROLE player next to Kobe. All the other things will fall into place by just being Kobe's teammate. Kobe can make anyone a solid starter, or atleast a decent player. Look at Smush, he is putting up 12/3/3 for 750K. I hate Smush, but how can you argue that the gey is not a great bargain. |
 good post!
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daniel80111
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersdynasty999 wrote: | | kobe_somebody_odom wrote: | Third member of the Sahsa V club
How could you not like somebody that looks up to Kobe, and plays hard. Those are the two most important qualities in putting a ROLE player next to Kobe. All the other things will fall into place by just being Kobe's teammate. Kobe can make anyone a solid starter, or atleast a decent player. Look at Smush, he is putting up 12/3/3 for 750K. I hate Smush, but how can you argue that the gey is not a great bargain. |
good post! |
If this is why you like sasha I can find 100 guys off the street that can do the same thing. |
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Michlake
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 3696
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| daniel80111 wrote: | | lakersdynasty999 wrote: | | kobe_somebody_odom wrote: | Third member of the Sahsa V club
How could you not like somebody that looks up to Kobe, and plays hard. Those are the two most important qualities in putting a ROLE player next to Kobe. All the other things will fall into place by just being Kobe's teammate. Kobe can make anyone a solid starter, or atleast a decent player. Look at Smush, he is putting up 12/3/3 for 750K. I hate Smush, but how can you argue that the gey is not a great bargain. |
good post! |
If this is why you like sasha I can find 100 guys off the street that can do the same thing. |
people just dont understand that playing hard is meaningless if you have no basketabll ability.
who cares if he looks up to Kobe? Who cares if he plays hard?
all I care about is production |
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elroy65
Sixth Man
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject: Like His Potential |
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Sasha is still young. I think he'll be a player when he gains his confidence. Right now he hesitates w/ taking his shots.
Rarely penetrates, although I think he actually has some moves, speed, and hops. It seems he drives into the paint, goes up, and passes away. He needs to start taking that penetration shot and eventually it will start falling.
Lakers didn't really want to draft him as soon as they did, but they didn't want someone else to come along and grab him.
So ... maybe he needed another year or two in Europe, but I personally think he will be a solid starter by next year, and maybe grow into an exceptional player.
I know not everyone will agree.
Time will tell. |
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lakersdynasty999
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 1893
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Michlake wrote: | | daniel80111 wrote: | | lakersdynasty999 wrote: | | kobe_somebody_odom wrote: | Third member of the Sahsa V club
How could you not like somebody that looks up to Kobe, and plays hard. Those are the two most important qualities in putting a ROLE player next to Kobe. All the other things will fall into place by just being Kobe's teammate. Kobe can make anyone a solid starter, or atleast a decent player. Look at Smush, he is putting up 12/3/3 for 750K. I hate Smush, but how can you argue that the gey is not a great bargain. |
good post! |
If this is why you like sasha I can find 100 guys off the street that can do the same thing. |
people just dont understand that playing hard is meaningless if you have no basketabll ability.
who cares if he looks up to Kobe? Who cares if he plays hard?
all I care about is production |
all i care about is winning...and the stats show that when sasha is in the game, lakers outscore their opponents by more than when smush is in te game...
think about it...sasha doesnt play the 3rd quarters...lakers SUCK in third quarters...maybe phil needs to switch things up a lil...we need more intensity and sasha brings it!
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Michlake
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 3696
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersdynasty999 wrote: | | Michlake wrote: | | daniel80111 wrote: | | lakersdynasty999 wrote: | | kobe_somebody_odom wrote: | Third member of the Sahsa V club
How could you not like somebody that looks up to Kobe, and plays hard. Those are the two most important qualities in putting a ROLE player next to Kobe. All the other things will fall into place by just being Kobe's teammate. Kobe can make anyone a solid starter, or atleast a decent player. Look at Smush, he is putting up 12/3/3 for 750K. I hate Smush, but how can you argue that the gey is not a great bargain. |
good post! |
If this is why you like sasha I can find 100 guys off the street that can do the same thing. |
people just dont understand that playing hard is meaningless if you have no basketabll ability.
who cares if he looks up to Kobe? Who cares if he plays hard?
all I care about is production |
all i care about is winning...and the stats show that when sasha is in the game, lakers outscore their opponents by more than when smush is in te game...
think about it...sasha doesnt play the 3rd quarters...lakers SUCK in third quarters...maybe phil needs to switch things up a lil...we need more intensity and sasha brings it! |
that is a good argument on paper, but in reality it doesn't hold up.
maybe Sasha always plays with Kobe, maybe he plays in blowouts and that is why stats show the team plays better with Sasha.
I am no Smush fan, but he is a better defender than Sasha(although he is still poor) and Smush is also a better shooter. If Sasha played more the Lakers defense would be even worse than it it. The lakers are inconsistant because of the poor PG play of both Smush and Sasha. |
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lakersdynasty999
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 1893
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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all im saying is the stats talk...sasha doesnt get lucky and play with kobe...infact, smush does...sasha plays when kobe sits 99% of the time
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kobenbynum
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersdynasty999 wrote: | Many interesting comments on here...the poll shows that fans love sasha more than hate...but most are mixed
but it seems in the responses...that most people still hate him...
so what i got from this thread i started...more people like him than hate him...but the people who do hate him, feel very strong hate and write more about their hate than the people that like him... |
Mainly because they expect him to play like a two year vet that spent 4 years in the NCAA and was hyped up as being the next Magic Johnson.
Of course none of those things are true (he really did not play in his first season) but of course you can't tell the Sasha haters that because they only expect every Laker to play like an allstar from day one.
No one cares that the Spurs drafted Ginobili (whom Sasha was compared to by most scouts before he was drafted) in 1999 and then left him to play in Europe for 4 years before finally deciding he was good enough to play in the NBA.
Never mind that Sasha was considered the best point guard in Europe at the time he was drafted.
Never mind that Sasha was 19 when the Lakers drafted him and hadn't played as much organized ball as Walton, Cook or Turiaf.
If Sky says he's no good then it must be true because Sky has league pass and that makes him an expert. 
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numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18201
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kobenbynum wrote: |
No one cares that the Spurs drafted Ginobili (whom Sasha was compared to by most scouts before he was drafted) in 1999 and then left him to play in Europe for 4 years before finally deciding he was good enough to play in the NBA. |
No one cares because the Spurs didn't waste a 1st round pick on Ginobili. They could afford to take a chance on him and see if he developed.
We care because there was an NBA-ready point guard like Chris Duhon we could have drafted instead.
| kobenbynum wrote: |
Never mind that Sasha was considered the best point guard in Europe at the time he was drafted. |
I don't know where you got that from or if you can back up that claim, but it doesn't even matter. Sasha was the worst PG drafted in the 1st round. He's not even the best PG in Slovenia. Beno Udrih has been on the Slovenian National team since 2000. Has Sasha even played on the Senior National team yet?
| kobenbynum wrote: |
Never mind that Sasha was 19 when the Lakers drafted him and hadn't played as much organized ball as Walton, Cook or Turiaf.
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He played three years of Euro-ball and you just touted him as "the best point guard in Europe" in your last sentence.
Telfair was 19 and Livingston was 18 when they were drafted in the same draft.
I was re-reading the draft scouting reports on Sasha and they all claim his strengths are his ability to penetrate and handle the ball and his weakness is his outside game.
So far, we've seen how poorly he penetrates and finishes and how mediocre his handles are, so either Sasha's strengths in the Euro-league aren't amounting to much in the NBA or he's playing to his weakness. |
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sonofabuss
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't say I love him, but I don't hate him like I did earlier this year. Actually, I never really hated him. I just got scared #^$%less whenever he got on the court. Now I kinda see some upside as a good guys to have off the bench because of his size and intensity. Once he gets his shot to fall more consistently, should be retty solid. At the very least, he'll make good trade bait. |
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kobenbynum
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: |
No one cares because the Spurs didn't waste a 1st round pick on Ginobili. They could afford to take a chance on him and see if he developed.
We care because there was an NBA-ready point guard like Chris Duhon we could have drafted instead. |
Yeah you're right man the Spurs drafted Manu in the second round and the Lakers had that amazing 27th pick that they threw away. There's a big difference between the 27th pick and a second round pick. :roll:
Also you are right Duhon is really lighting it up in Chicago with his 8.6 points per game as a starter.
Since you mention Telfair (8.8 ppg as a starter this season) and Livingston (6.2 ppg off the bench) I should mention that neither of the two are really lighting it up from the field: Telfair: 37% from the field and 37% from the arc. Livingston: 39% from the field and 14% from the arc.
In case you're wondering:
Sasha: 18 mins per game, 35% from the field, 33% from the three, 4.0 ppg.
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Gr8testEver
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| As long as he outplays his Slovenian mate Udrih I 'll be happy. |
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loseyourname
Star Player
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 1531
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| daniel80111 wrote: | | People that hate Sasha have much more valid arguments than the people that say they love him...thats the bottom line. We call it like we see it. And what we see is not exactly what we want. |
Hating a guy isn't a matter of logic. No valid argument concludes in an imperative such as "Therefore, you should hate player X."
I don't personally have any strong feelings about the guy. He plays hard and doesn't seem to show and fear or back down from a challenge. I hold out hope that he can eventually be an above-average career backup. Still would have preferred Anderson Varejao, but it's not exactly like he's done much other than show great effort, either. |
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numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18201
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kobenbynum wrote: |
Also you are right Duhon is really lighting it up in Chicago with his 8.6 points per game as a starter. |
I'd take Duhon's 8.6 points over Sasha's "potential" any day of the week. He's shooting better from the arc then Sasha and has gotten to the FT line three times more.
| kobenbynum wrote: |
Since you mention Telfair (8.8 ppg as a starter this season) and Livingston (6.2 ppg off the bench) I should mention that neither of the two are really lighting it up from the field: Telfair: 37% from the field and 37% from the arc. Livingston: 39% from the field and 14% from the arc. |
You remember Telfair don't you? He's the guy who made "the best PG in Europe" look like his shoes were glued to the floor just last week. Sasha sure knows his name. He had plenty of opportunities to read Telfair's name on the back of his jersey as he was blowing by him.
Telfair and Livingston aren't very good shooters, but they shoot a higher percentage because they can take the ball to the basket. Something Sasha either can't or is too scared to do. Livingston has played in 24 fewer games than Sasha and has already shot more FTs.
As I've pointed out several times, Sasha is the only Laker whose taken more shots from behind the arc than in front of it. Until he grows a pair and learns to start taking the ball to the basket when he's clanking treys off the rim, he'll never be much better than a 35% shooter.
| kobenbynum wrote: |
In case you're wondering:
Sasha: 18 mins per game, 35% from the field, 33% from the three, 4.0 ppg. |
Were those numbers supposed to prove your case or mine?
Duhon is earning 30 minutes per game in a very good backcourt rotation that includes lottery-picks, Hinrich and Gordon.
Sasha is only getting 18 minutes when his only competition for playing time is an undrafted player. If Laron Profit hadn't gone down his playing time would be even less. |
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