Kobe's clutchness: Made 21 Game-winners in career (MJ-28)
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BigAssLakerFan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject:

the PF in his foot last year really helped bring his % down last season. I think if it wasn't for that, then that list would be a lil bit longer.
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KB8LJ23
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject:

I don't know why haters have said that he sucks in the last game winning shot. Cause that is not the truth. Especially, over at insidehoops. That is a big haterville against Kobe. And, I think that that haters are just stupid. Just because he is breaking a lot of MJ's records. They should ask themselves this question if Kobe came first would they be hating on him still? If kobe did what Mj did before MJ would they be hating Kobe or would they be hating MJ. Exactly. Haters should shut up!
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lakernet
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject:

eniq 0x00 wrote:
minervafilms wrote:
Well, that's the thing. While Kobe has of course made an enormous amount of clutch shots in his career, I would almost go out on a limb and say he's TAKEN far more last shots than any other player in the game...by some distance....since MJ. So I would certainly hope he's made more than anyone else.

No wonder he rarely makes them anymore. I think it's up to Kobe and Jackson to start figuring out some smarter plays at the end of games. I've been saying for a long time that Kobe should sometimes be employed as a decoy in such situations, and someone else will end up with an open, high-% shot.


What matters more is that he can make the shots and will score (before the end) to bring the team back, as well as keep the team in the game-he doesn't have to always hit the game winning shot.

And as for decoying; I can recall at least one time-last season-against New York:

He passes to Luke at the end, and the moron passes up an open look in favor of another pass to Kobe. So he does pass if an opening is available; it's just up to his teammates to convert.

People using those statistics to try to prove that Kobe will not pass to open teammate are being dishonest jerks. Those statistics don't say jack about the setup, matchups, or who was open in those games.
I blame Kobe for that. I mean, if you're KB, you have to expect to get the ball back in the closing seconds of the game.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject:

lakernet wrote:
eniq 0x00 wrote:
minervafilms wrote:
Well, that's the thing. While Kobe has of course made an enormous amount of clutch shots in his career, I would almost go out on a limb and say he's TAKEN far more last shots than any other player in the game...by some distance....since MJ. So I would certainly hope he's made more than anyone else.

No wonder he rarely makes them anymore. I think it's up to Kobe and Jackson to start figuring out some smarter plays at the end of games. I've been saying for a long time that Kobe should sometimes be employed as a decoy in such situations, and someone else will end up with an open, high-% shot.


What matters more is that he can make the shots and will score (before the end) to bring the team back, as well as keep the team in the game-he doesn't have to always hit the game winning shot.

And as for decoying; I can recall at least one time-last season-against New York:

He passes to Luke at the end, and the moron passes up an open look in favor of another pass to Kobe. So he does pass if an opening is available; it's just up to his teammates to convert.

People using those statistics to try to prove that Kobe will not pass to open teammate are being dishonest jerks. Those statistics don't say jack about the setup, matchups, or who was open in those games.
I blame Kobe for that. I mean, if you're KB, you have to expect to get the ball back in the closing seconds of the game.


Wow.. really... thats Kobes fault?! are you kidding me, had kobe even gotten the ball back in a good position there would be little to not time to get a decent look.

Damned if he does.. damned if he doesnt.

I can almost guarantee had Kobe not passed the ball, and missed, they would have said 'WTF KOBE LUKE WAS WIDE OPEN..." the guy can never win.
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lakers0505
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:41 pm    Post subject:

this topic is stupid now, its a bunch of fans, trashing each other about nothing..
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OshadowO
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject:

if he takes a lot he'll make a lot. The thing about him is that he takes them with confidence that few others will. Also consider that in those situations he is guarded more heavily than anyone else (unless the opposing coach is a (bleep)).

I think what game winning shots fail to discount is how Kobe can bring you back in a game or keep hitting big shot after big shot. There's more than a few times this season when he bought the team back from a decficit or got us up enough so that a game winner wasn't neccessary. That too is clutch.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:50 am    Post subject:

kobekillinu2nite wrote:
Alpha wrote:
Thanks kku2n for the post and link!


WORD Your avatar reminds me of "MINE, MINE, MINE!!!"



haha lmao
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eniq 0x00
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject:

PushingtheLimit wrote:
lakernet wrote:
eniq 0x00 wrote:
minervafilms wrote:
Well, that's the thing. While Kobe has of course made an enormous amount of clutch shots in his career, I would almost go out on a limb and say he's TAKEN far more last shots than any other player in the game...by some distance....since MJ. So I would certainly hope he's made more than anyone else.

No wonder he rarely makes them anymore. I think it's up to Kobe and Jackson to start figuring out some smarter plays at the end of games. I've been saying for a long time that Kobe should sometimes be employed as a decoy in such situations, and someone else will end up with an open, high-% shot.


What matters more is that he can make the shots and will score (before the end) to bring the team back, as well as keep the team in the game-he doesn't have to always hit the game winning shot.

And as for decoying; I can recall at least one time-last season-against New York:

He passes to Luke at the end, and the moron passes up an open look in favor of another pass to Kobe. So he does pass if an opening is available; it's just up to his teammates to convert.

People using those statistics to try to prove that Kobe will not pass to open teammate are being dishonest jerks. Those statistics don't say jack about the setup, matchups, or who was open in those games.
I blame Kobe for that. I mean, if you're KB, you have to expect to get the ball back in the closing seconds of the game.


Wow.. really... thats Kobes fault?! are you kidding me, had kobe even gotten the ball back in a good position there would be little to not time to get a decent look.

Damned if he does.. damned if he doesnt.

I can almost guarantee had Kobe not passed the ball, and missed, they would have said 'WTF KOBE LUKE WAS WIDE OPEN..." the guy can never win.


Yeah, this guy is an obvious hater. No player in the league would've expected a wide-open player to pass up that shot. Only an idiot would make a pass in the final seconds to a player that was covered with larger players. Kobe made the right decision and Luke (bleep) it up.
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boricua
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject:

That Luke walton pass made myself sooooo angry
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject:

I don't know how much credance you can put into some of these stats. I mean, look at Chauncey Billups WAY down on that list. If there's another guard I think of as being clutch in this league (besides D.Wade), it's Billups. And his percentages are about as far down as Kobe. I'm not sure how accurate/all-encompassing these stats really are.
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tw-lakbfan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject:

Good find, thanx.

And stats do lie sometimes.
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akk7
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject:

The Luke Walton pass was Kobe Bryant's fault. Just admit that. He's not perfect, that was Kobe's fault
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PiPisKobesByatch
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject:

how was that kobe's fault? he found luke walton practically underneath the basket, but his balls shrunk up and he was too afraid to shoot it.. so he passed it back to kobe as time ran out.

i really do not see how that was kobe's fault.. he did wut everybody wants him to.. pass the ball and find open teammates.

he can be at fault at times.. but in that situation it was 0% kobe's fault. he did everything right.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject:

The 6 for 25 stat is actually pretty bad guys... I don't think it suggests that Kobe is not clutch. Rather, it shows that teams KNOW that Kobe will be taking the last shot. Lakers will need to mix it up, or otherwise we will continue to be ineffective down the stretch. Luke should have thrown that pass to Odom down low, for instance.
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kobekillinu2nite
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Vlade wrote:
The 6 for 25 stat is actually pretty bad guys... I don't think it suggests that Kobe is not clutch. Rather, it shows that teams KNOW that Kobe will be taking the last shot. Lakers will need to mix it up, or otherwise we will continue to be ineffective down the stretch. Luke should have thrown that pass to Odom down low, for instance.



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kobekillinu2nite
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject:

With all the research I have done, it all points to Jordan leading with 28 game winners as the record.
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bambam
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject:

wasnt there one vs boston, i think in the 02 season that was incorrectly waived off?
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akk7
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject:

PiPisKobesByatch wrote:
how was that kobe's fault? he found luke walton practically underneath the basket, but his balls shrunk up and he was too afraid to shoot it.. so he passed it back to kobe as time ran out.

i really do not see how that was kobe's fault.. he did wut everybody wants him to.. pass the ball and find open teammates.

he can be at fault at times.. but in that situation it was 0% kobe's fault. he did everything right.


It was Kobe's fault because it was a bad pass with a defender near by. Even I'm saying the annoucers who were praising Kobe that game said it was his fault. It was Kobe's fault for that lose. It was a bad pass
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tw-lakbfan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject:

A bad pass? Nonsense. akk7, you' were wrong. If those announcers said so, they were wrong too. Their words aren't gospel, you know?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject:

Vixen wrote:
http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAL7E.HTM

He is going to have to do a lot better then 36.7% for me at least to call him a better clutch player then someone like Jordan.


And you're going to make a lot better (and a lot more) posts if you expect any one to give a damn about what you have to say.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject:

akk7 wrote:
PiPisKobesByatch wrote:
how was that kobe's fault? he found luke walton practically underneath the basket, but his balls shrunk up and he was too afraid to shoot it.. so he passed it back to kobe as time ran out.

i really do not see how that was kobe's fault.. he did wut everybody wants him to.. pass the ball and find open teammates.

he can be at fault at times.. but in that situation it was 0% kobe's fault. he did everything right.


It was Kobe's fault because it was a bad pass with a defender near by. Even I'm saying the annoucers who were praising Kobe that game said it was his fault. It was Kobe's fault for that lose. It was a bad pass


What the hell are you talking about? Did you actually see the footage? It was a good pass into a lane which could of been an easy layup/floater.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject:

akk7 wrote:
PiPisKobesByatch wrote:
how was that kobe's fault? he found luke walton practically underneath the basket, but his balls shrunk up and he was too afraid to shoot it.. so he passed it back to kobe as time ran out.

i really do not see how that was kobe's fault.. he did wut everybody wants him to.. pass the ball and find open teammates.

he can be at fault at times.. but in that situation it was 0% kobe's fault. he did everything right.


It was Kobe's fault because it was a bad pass with a defender near by. Even I'm saying the annoucers who were praising Kobe that game said it was his fault. It was Kobe's fault for that lose. It was a bad pass


Bad Pass? Luke caught it in great position. So how in hell was that a bad pass? Luke had one and only one option. Shoot! You are just wrong and the announcers stated that even if Kobe had got the shot off it would have been be too late to beat the buzzer . Methinks you have negative selective memory.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject:

G_DawgLA wrote:
Vixen wrote:
http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAL7E.HTM

He is going to have to do a lot better then 36.7% for me at least to call him a better clutch player then someone like Jordan.


And you're going to make a lot better (and a lot more) posts if you expect any one to give a damn about what you have to say.


Well, then elighten me as to what was wrong with my post. You did not even quote the whole thing. I said Bryant has the best clutch ability in the NBA right now, HOWEVER, it is at a fairly inconsistent rate. I do not see anything wrong with saying something like that. And since when does post count = post quality?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:54 am    Post subject:

Vlade wrote:
The 6 for 25 stat is actually pretty bad guys... I don't think it suggests that Kobe is not clutch. Rather, it shows that teams KNOW that Kobe will be taking the last shot. Lakers will need to mix it up, or otherwise we will continue to be ineffective down the stretch. Luke should have thrown that pass to Odom down low, for instance.


Gotta also remember this...

That "6/25" stat doesn't account for the fact that Kobe's teammates right
now (and last year) tend to give him the ball just before the shot-clock is
going to run out.

For instance, if an inbounds pass goes to Lamar, Smush, Caron,
whomever late in the game and they're unable to fully create they're own
shot - they're likely to find Kobe knowing that he's much better at that
himself and that it gives us a chance for the shot.

Alot of times that may leave Kobe with less time than he needs to create
or get into a good position.

Not saying it's a drasticly often thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's
happened at least a small handful of those 6/25 shot attempts.

This season in particular his stat for those situations is possibly the worst
if you're just talking percentages - because we have no legit outside
shooters on the team right now and that lets the defense double and
triple him in those situations alot more shamelessly.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Does anyone know how many game winners Magic Johnson and Jerry West hit in their careers?
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