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sodapoppenski
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LakeShow06 wrote: | sodapop and Lakers 2626,
i can understand both of your arguements about George starting over Luke IF Lamar was slid over to the 4, but a couple of thoughts?
who initiates the offence? Kobe and Lamar still as George cannot correctly initiate the offence (can't operate or initiate himself sometimes), which means it would again fall back to these guys and we NEED both of these guys scroing and being agressive on both ends of the court
also, Devean is playing at his best recently as an impact guy off the ebnch or 6th man and even admitted that himself in a trade deadline article and now realises his role on the team.....
i realise that Devean's D is > than Luke's, but i still maintain that what we lose there is about the same as what Cook gives us anyway and what we might lose in scoring with Cook, should technically (or hopefully) be made up for by Lamar being more free to score and Luke putting a few in too? |
DG has more tri experience than anyone on the roster aside from Kobe.
He's not the passer LO is, but he knows the spacing and understands how
to make a decent pass.
LO can still initiate out of the post, and even off the weak-side as a PF.
He proved it last year.
And as far as "needing them to be aggressive" - LO averaged more PPG
last season at PF.
Again, not saying I PREFER Lamar at PF.
But "overall" I don't think he loses anything with the move.
It comes down to lineups.
Against some teams (generally smallballers) I like LO at PF.
Against the beef-down-low types, like the Spurs, I like LO at SF. |
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lakers2626
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| LakeShow06 wrote: | sodapop and Lakers 2626,
i can understand both of your arguements about George starting over Luke IF Lamar was slid over to the 4, but a couple of thoughts?
who initiates the offence? Kobe and Lamar still as George cannot correctly initiate the offence (can't operate or initiate himself sometimes), which means it would again fall back to these guys and we NEED both of these guys scroing and being agressive on both ends of the court
also, Devean is playing at his best recently as an impact guy off the ebnch or 6th man and even admitted that himself in a trade deadline article and now realises his role on the team.....
i realise that Devean's D is > than Luke's, but i still maintain that what we lose there is about the same as what Cook gives us anyway and what we might lose in scoring with Cook, should technically (or hopefully) be made up for by Lamar being more free to score and Luke putting a few in too? |
I agree with you with DG and the energy he brings off the bench. I also can agree that DG is not the person who can initiate the offense.
I just see it as Lamar should still initiate the offense because if he doesn't have the ball in his hand, in my opinion he doesn't move well without the ball. Also I see on offense in this offense with the lakers and with the bulls the first time they 3peat the 4 position on this team has usually been the one to hit that 15 footer. I can see George switching to that position in the tri. I can see Mihm work the low blocks. George hitting a 15 footer like Ho Grant use to. I see Lamar still initiatine and I see Kobe being Kobe. Smush in my opinion is going to have to be more consistent from the 3 point line. Becasue basically that's what this system really needs a shooter from the outside that can basically spread out the floor.
Defensively I see basically Lamar guarding the 4 and George the 3. I think if Kwame can bring us energy off the bench we can have Kwame because of his D and Cook is O and Luke because he can initiate the offense be good people to come off the bench for use to get minutes. |
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mike-
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see anything at all wrong with starting luke at SF and Odom at PF, given it is against specific teams.
It is a very effective lineup against smaller teams.
I like our Big Lineup vs most teams though. |
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methticaL
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | Luke starting at the 3 and Odom at the 4?
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dewit8
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Why have this argument? We are all Laker fans, however, most people on this board just kiss Kobe's butt and hate everyone else on the team. But if we must, here's my argument.
Cook is the best player starter for the position. Moving Odom to 4 will not catapult us into contention. Benching Cook puts the best outside shooter we have on the bench, and slows down the offense drastically. Plus, he shoots about 5-8 times a game. If he shot 10-12 times a game, he'd be averaging 15-18 pts. and we wouldn't be having this argument. And I'll reiterate my stance about his defensive ability. While he's not Ben Wallace, he plays hard and does have some decent games. And if he was a great rebounder, Kwame Brown would be more useless than he already is. Cook serves his purpose-- good shooter who can become a scoring option if others are off.
Luke brings smarts, but nothing else. He's a bigger defensive liability than Cook, and not nearly the offensive threat.
DGeorge brings a quicker, smaller scorer to the court. But he's the most inconsistent scorer on the team, and seems to always be in foul trouble. Plus, this moves Odom to the 4.
Brown-- No D, and his smarts are not smart.
Look back at when the Lakers lost to the Pistons in the Finals. Karl Malone made that offense stagnant, and it could happen with a great rebounding, defensive PF. If Cook shoots 10-12 a game, we'll win 70% of our games. |
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G35CK
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Location: Staples Center
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Funny how you talked about consistency and then you suggested Luke as one of the starters. You arguement doesn't make any sense. I rather have DG start at SF than Luke. Don't get me wrong, i love Luke, but he's not a starter player yet. I like your line up except the SF position. |
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LakeShow06
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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some good points being made, thanks for the contributions
but found it interesting that Phil has come out in the LA Times this today and suggested that Lamar "shoot and attempt to score more often" - which to me implies less of a load as the initiator - it would simply have to
maybe this is the direction Phil is going to go......we'll have to see?
and don't get me wrong, i like Brian Cook and he sure can shoot and score, but i'm just not sure if he brings "enough" to the team as a starter, maybe if he would even board a little more it would be ok, but he averages about 3 boards a game and has started many games this year and thats not good enough as a PF - that combined with his suspect defence really negates his offence in my opinion
his dish could be best served as a good shooter and scorer off the bench, another weapon if you will.......especially if Lamar can become a good No: 2 and with Mihm and Smush making up the No: 3 option together
also, as i said earlier, it gives us two bigs off the bench, which is important as both Mihm and Lamar are susceptible to early fouls - again makes sense in terms of better balance to the team
in terms of Luke being inconsistent - between injuries at the start of both the last two seasons, sporadic playing time and his shot being off - he hasn't had much opportunity to show if he can be consistent or not - maybe this would be his chance.......
i'm not in love with Luke Walton or anything like that, just think this would be a good experiment to see how the team would go....after all PHil has been experimenting all year?? |
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twoface723
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3751
Location: University of Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Luke has 1 good game and deserves to be a starter? Hell no!  |
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Laker Lurker
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Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 7652
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LakeShow06 wrote: | | jack13 wrote: | | Luke for starter???? Dude... |
thanks for the comment, but what is your alternative, as Lamar needs to be moved to PF and into the post, so who is your alternative starter at SF at to initiate the offense?
It's all good to smack my idea, but would be better if you gave another view? |
Why not Pg- Smush
Sg- Kobe
Sf- Odom
C- Kwame
PF- Mihm |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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PG: Sasha/Turiaf/Mihm
SG: Smush/Bynum
PF: Luke/JJ
SF: Green/Kwame
C : Kobe/Odom
Just imagine the matchup problems. 1st, the opposing point guard would be incopacitated rolling around on the floor laughing. The opposing PF would likely fumble the ball 80% of the time as he dealt with sensory overload trying to figure out just which way he was going to posterize Luke (too many options). Smush and Green would run the opposing SG & SF all over the place and then eventually ito each other thus nullifying any of their effectiveness and Kobe would confuse opposing Centers as they would not want to make the nightly ESPN highlights as the 7 footer who couldn't handle Kobe in the post.
Then the second stringers could come in and just dominate. Just imagine the look in te eyes of the opposing backcourt when they look up and see Mihm and Bynum guarding them. Every shot they put up would just turn into a volleyball contest between Chris and Drew. And trying to contend with Kwame at the SF position, oh my....Kwame would dominate in the high post. UNSTOPPABLE! And Odom would excel athis high school position of center. I'm shaking thinking of the possibilities. That's just a sick rotation that would get the Lakers to the second round for sure. 
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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LakeShow06
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Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| twoface723 wrote: | | Luke has 1 good game and deserves to be a starter? Hell no! |
for the last time......i'm not basing my arguement on the NOK game or on any one game - i'm not that niave - read my posts
Luke starting is more out of neccesity as a flow on effect of moving Lamar into the PF spot and relieving the ball-handling responsibilities on him and giving most of those duties to Luke - as he can do it - and also not leaving it to Kobe |
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TLT
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1025
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Walton can't shoot and can't play defense. Cook can shoot and can"t play defense. What else can I say? There's a reason Walton was drafted behind Cook |
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LakeShow06
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Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lurker wrote: | | LakeShow06 wrote: | | jack13 wrote: | | Luke for starter???? Dude... |
thanks for the comment, but what is your alternative, as Lamar needs to be moved to PF and into the post, so who is your alternative starter at SF at to initiate the offense?
It's all good to smack my idea, but would be better if you gave another view? |
Why not Pg- Smush
Sg- Kobe
Sf- Odom
C- Kwame
PF- Mihm |
why not?
because for a large portion of the year, this line-up has proven to be ineffective, particularly up front and in terms of the flow of the offence, with Kwame starting at PF
also, where does that line-up leave us in terms of size off the bench, when either/or Mihm, Kwame or Lamar get into early foul trouble and Phil has made a bit of a stand lately to sit Bynum and Turiaf?
Brian Cook and thats it......and he doesn't play like a big
the Mihm and Kwame rotation at C is working well and could get better and again provides the team more balance overall |
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Laker Lurker
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Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 7652
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LakeShow06 wrote: | | Laker Lurker wrote: | | LakeShow06 wrote: | | jack13 wrote: | | Luke for starter???? Dude... |
thanks for the comment, but what is your alternative, as Lamar needs to be moved to PF and into the post, so who is your alternative starter at SF at to initiate the offense?
It's all good to smack my idea, but would be better if you gave another view? |
Why not Pg- Smush
Sg- Kobe
Sf- Odom
C- Kwame
PF- Mihm |
why not?
because for a large portion of the year, this line-up has proven to be ineffective, particularly up front and in terms of the flow of the offence, with Kwame starting at PF
also, where does that line-up leave us in terms of size off the bench, when either/or Mihm, Kwame or Lamar get into early foul trouble and Phil has made a bit of a stand lately to sit Bynum and Turiaf?
Brian Cook and thats it......and he doesn't play like a big
the Mihm and Kwame rotation at C is working well and could get better and again provides the team more balance overall |
Odom at Sf is infinitetly better than Walton at Sf - a fact that alone makes the lineup better than Walton at SF. Walton at PF is good only if the Lakers want a loterry pick- and a high one at that. As stated in the posts in this thread, Cook is a good scorer but lousy at defense and he doesn't play as a big man at PF. Mihm has proven he can score and he is infintely better than Cook on defense. Kwame has proven to be better at center than at PF- and he provides very good defense there. I think that this lineup would be a better balanced team with regards to both offense and defense- not just taking into account offensive balance. Kwame and Mihm can back each other up at either PF or C. Bynum can be the third or second backup at C depending on Mihm or Kwame's foul trouble. Similarly, Cook and Turiaf can back up the PF position. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thers a lot of offense here, and you initiated it LakeShow06, so maybe you should man the 3 
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LakeShow06
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Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| after the last three games (for 2 wins) Luke Walton doesn't seem so bad after all does he?? and neither does this line-up, since the guys i suggested are getting the majority of minutes....but hey...... |
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BraveHeartII
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1848
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Mihm, Turiaf, Odom, Kobe, Smush. Easily the most balanced and possibly our best lineup |
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LakeShow06
Star Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BraveHeartII wrote: | | Mihm, Turiaf, Odom, Kobe, Smush. Easily the most balanced and possibly our best lineup |
i wondered a little while ago about starting Turiaf AND Bynum - even just to shake up the starting front court - but they aren't ready and Phil won't do it, unless we look like missing the play-offs to give them some gametime
i still think our best line-up could be
Smush
Kobe
Luke
Lamar
Chris
i still maintain that Brian Cook (although good) is not doing enough as a starter and could be used as more of a weapon off the bench, Kwame as your defensive guy and big man prescence and Cook as a scoring weapon |
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BraveHeartII
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bynum isn't ready, but Turiaf is. He's spent 4 years in college, has the size and skills, he can be trusted. |
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LAKERLVR
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 920
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BraveHeartII wrote: | | Bynum isn't ready, but Turiaf is. He's spent 4 years in college, has the size and skills, he can be trusted. |
That's true, 4 year college players can always at least give you something their first year. Luke as a Rookie had a standout game in the Finals, so Turiaf might be able to do something productive in the first round. |
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Money$hot!
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Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 5911
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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If players stay hurt its lookin like this is all we got. I could imagine Turiaf moving ahead of Bynum or Cook in the rotation. Or Cook could start at PF moving Odom to SF if Phil feels strong enough about Turiaf's play. I think this is how the lineup will be if we dont get Devean, Mihm or Mckie(?) back soon.
Parker --->Sasha
Bryant --->Green
Walton --->Jackson
Odom ---->Cook --->Turiaf
Brown ---->Bynum ->Turiaf |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Why do Phil gets 10mill a year to make us not win games |
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