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Socks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject:

BraveHeartII wrote:
As the old saying goes, you can never have too many bigs. By getting Pryzbilla, you could move Mihm for a starting PF or point guard.

Looking back, we made a huge mistake in not trading Mihm for Francis(who's an upgrade over Jason Terry, who everybody wants.) If we could sign Pryzbilla for the MLE to replace Mihm, that's like getting an All-Star caliber point for free.


Whoa, I could possibly buy the Pryz thing (possibly), but you lost me on the Francis statement.

Francis is definitely better than Terry from an all around talent perspective, but really Terry is a much better fit for the Lakers. He's not a PG who is going to pound the hell out of the ball until the shot clock expires, and he's a better outside shooter, not to mention Stevie's whole team cancer thing. Terry shoots north of 45%, cans the 3 consistently and will move the ball. Every time a coach has tried to take the ball out of Francis' hands, his level of play declines dramatically while his level of pouting increases significantly.

Don't even get me started of Francis' nasty contract.
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BraveHeartII
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject:

Jason Terry averages 44% shooting for his "career"(never ever just look at their most recent play, that's how you give guys contracts they don't deserve, and underappreciate guys, for example, Vince), Francis 43%. Not a lot of difference there. However, Francis also averages 6 boards and 6 assists, to Terry's 5 and 3.

I've no doubt that Francis will be motivated and averages at least 18, 6 and 6, in a winning environment again.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject:

Socks wrote:
insidepresence wrote:
How much will he command on the open market?


Probably above the mid-level exception. Comparatively, Mihm is making, what, like $4 M this year?


Exactly.

SCREW it Mitch!!!!
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject:

Francis = x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Ok I exaggerated that by about 3 zeros.

True though.
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Socks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Since he came to the Mav's Terry has averaged 50% FG last year and his current 47% FG. His shooting has improved markedly since he no longer has to carry the scoring on a sorry ATL team and also doesn't have as many PG responsibilities. Plus his overall shot selection has improved. This scenario would be more similar to a Lakers team, wheras Francis has almost always played with other scorers and still can't shoot as well.

Terry also has a career 38% 3P% (about 42% in Dallas). Francis is career 34%, but hasn't been over 30% since 02-03. You can't just look at career stats either, you have to look at reasons and systems these players play in.

Regardless, you haven't addressed the fact that Francis just doesn't play a team game, and has a horrible salary. In Houston and in Orl, and now in NY (albeit it's a small sample size), any time a coach has asked him to work within a structured system, he doesn't play well - so you can guess all you want about how he would do, I'd say history is on my side here.

No way Francis would be a better fit for LA than Terry.
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DzLaker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject:

As far as fit, Terry is > Francis. I hope we get him with the MLE.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject:

Unlikely to get these guys with the MLE, but...

Jason Terry
Mike James
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BraveHeartII
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject:

The Mavs doesn't have a structured system. And yes, you have to look at the circumstances. And Terry's circumstances may very well be that he's playing for a contract.

Finally, a player's contribution is more than his shooting percentage. Even in his worst year, Francis is averaging considerably more assists and rebounds than Terry. You could say that Francis is handling the ball more, but then if Terry were handling the ball as much as Francis, then his shooting percentage would lower, so in the end, Francis' overall numbers would still be better than Terry's.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject:

sodapoppenski wrote:
Francis = x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Ok I exaggerated that by about 3 zeros.

True though.
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Socks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject:

BraveHeartII wrote:
The Mavs doesn't have a structured system. And yes, you have to look at the circumstances. And Terry's circumstances may very well be that he's playing for a contract.

Finally, a player's contribution is more than his shooting percentage. Even in his worst year, Francis is averaging considerably more assists and rebounds than Terry. You could say that Francis is handling the ball more, but then if Terry were handling the ball as much as Francis, then his shooting percentage would lower, so in the end, Francis' overall numbers would still be better than Terry's.


Of course he's playing for a contract, but Terry's effort has never been questioned and watching him play, it doesn't seem like he's all of a sudden giving effort because of the contract year like someone like Dampier. I tend to attribute his increase in numbers to playing on a better team and learning the game more.

And I agree a player's contribution is more than just shooting percentage, but it's also more than just about numbers. Francis bogs his teams down with his inability to pass unless he thinks he's going to get an assist out of it. He dribbled and dribbles and dribbles some more. Tex Winter would have a heart attack watching the triangle become a dribble drill. On top of that he's been detrimental to his team on a number of occassions by pouting. So while Steve has a lot of talent and is indeed a better rebounder (by a lot), his overall attitude and approach to the game are selfish, while Terry has proved he can fit into a team, especially as a great number 2 scoring option (in this case to Dirk), by hitting open shots cause by double teams and driving to the basket to create his own shot.

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree here, but combine all that with Steve's monster salary and there's just no way I can conceed Steve over Terry for LA.

Of course, all this is moot, and I have to agree with Soda that we probably won't land Terry with just the MLE .
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject:

uberzev wrote:
Hey now, sign Priz to be our backup center and trade Mihm for a PF or PG.


Mihm for Duhon+PF and our line-up will be set for the long-term.
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
Pryz can block shots DO IT MITCH

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=sls780
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