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OshadowO
Star Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 7356
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 Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| golden armor wrote: | "Hurlbert is just as critical of Nifong, saying he should have waited for more evidence before declaring his confidence that a rape had occurred."
Pot to Kettle: "Black."
What a joke this Hurlbert is, and I noticed that they dug up Wendy Murphy from the hole she's been in. Just brings back bad memories of the railroading that Kobe had to endure. |
I read that and I was thinking the same thing. The gall of this man :\ |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | But, Dont come crying when the alley gets to dark and something bad happens. Guess what, you play in that alley everynight. and you knew what was possible. its like playing russian roulette. dont be mad when the gun goes bang. What do you really expect? Some nice guys just sitting there watching? maybe. but you have to know there are going to be times when guys go WAAAY over board. You're dangling raw steak in front of a Lions Den. what do you expect? Respect? Is it right to disrespect anyone? No its never correct. But what do you expect when you choose these lines of profession. thats all I'm saying. |
So let's just look the other way? Ah, that is a nice way to live life. Any slut who wears short skirts has it coming to her, eh? What a sweet life. |
That is not what he is saying what he is saying is if you choose to partake in a certain profession or put yourself in a position for something like this to happen then yes it is partly your fault.
In that nobody is going to protect you you have to take care of yourself. But in no way is he saying she deserved it just that its not a shock it would go down like that. |
^^thank you basketballfan. and to encina1, Its not a sweet life. no we shouldn't just look the other way. but at the same time. If you were thinking about choosing a profession like such. and i told you that the police will not protect you if something were to happen. wouldn't that make you rethink going into that profession? Yes it would. and if you chose to go into that profession anyway. aren't you going into that profession AT YOUR OWN RISK? Yes you are.
same for the statement you made about "Any slut who wears short skirts has it coming to her." But if I tell you over and over again, that your protection from being physically violated will be hendered, if you choose to be "a slut wearing a short skirt". and that you will increase the likelihood of something bad happening to you. Those statements will make some think thrice(not twice) about being "a slut wearing a short skirt." Do you understand now.
I mean as for kids. if I tell my kid dont keep jumping over the fence because its a big dog in that yard that might bite you. when my kid ends up bit. What should I do? have the dog killed? NO. Take my kid to the doctor, and hope he has learned his lesson.
I mean for the ladies, aren't you gals tired of these questionable at best, cases about rape? Dont you know it takes away from those women who are just joggin on their usual route around the park and get snatched and raped. instead of hearing about one of these cases. I have to look at TV and see headlines, "Duke Team vs Strippers: Rape Case". There students of the Duke campus that have been raped that we dont hear about, because we would rather put this questionable case on TV for ratings. Terrible. |
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jacomo
Sixth Man
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | and as for the hooker analogy i made earlier. look. you're doing something illegal and you have the nerve to go to the police and say someone has done something illegal to you. Thats as bad as these thieves who've broken into peoples houses and tried to sue the home owner for getting shot. what in the world did you think might happen? |
do you know that some of these women wouldn't hook or strip if they knew the law didn't have their backs at all. that could be a deterrent from the profession. for some a least. |
Well my friend, being an exotic dancer is not illegal. There's a difference between a hooker (which is illegal by the way) and an exotic dancer. The latter is perfectly legal in this country. If she feels that she was raped, she has every right to report that to the authorities. Makes me wonder if the roles were reverse if you would react to it the same way. If a white exotic dancer was allegedly gang raped by an all black basketball team, By now the media would already be blaming the hip hop culture and also blaming every black men in this country for being overly sexual. We do notice the double standards. By we i mean us black folks. But every time we mention it, they accuse us of playing the race card...... |
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golden armor
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 845
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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postandpivot -
Thank you for your clarifications. I understand your position much more clearly now and agree with much of it. |
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delaluz
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I live in Raleigh (down the freeway from Duke) and I play lacrosse so I've read everying I could on this. Here's more "facts"
1. There was a very suspicious 911 call around 20-30 minutes before the "reported" rape. I've heard this call around 10 times on TV. The caller said something like:
"Me and my black friend were driving past this house and someone shouted out "**ger". We were in front of 610 Buchannan St. and a mob of guys are against. a wall. While we WALKED past the house someone shouted ***** and I was so humiliated...."
One of the defense lawyers commented that:
1. the caller first said that she drove by the house and then stated that she walked by the house.
2. the caller stated at lease one or twice the exact address of the house. However a TV reporter who was standing in front of the house couldn't read the number in the day time.
3. The police sent a car to the house within 5 minutes of the call. The police couldn't find a bunch of guys (or even one guy) in front of the house. They couldn't find the "caller" either.
The defense lawyers are now saying that they can prove that the first 911 caller was the second "dancer" (the Duke guys hired two dancers ... only one claimed rape)
Supposedly there are pictures of the dancer on a camera of one of the lax players that are date time stamped before the act was supposed to have taken place. In the pictures the dancer is already bruised, possibly cut, and very bombed.
I think that the defense "story" is that the lax team paid two dancers $800 for dancing two hours at a party. They got the dancers by calling two different "escort services" and not from the local strip places. The dancers showed up and one of them was bombed. They took the money danced for around 5 minutes and then left. The lax guys were pretty upset and talked one of the daners to go back in the house and dance some more. This is the one that claimed she was raped.
BTW, the one that made the claim used to work in a strip club and was arrested for stealing one of her customers cars (I think a cab). She lead the cops on a high speed chase and at one point tried to run over one of the cops (this part of the charge was dropped). I know, these folks can get raped too.
Some folks at Duke have plastered "wanted" pictures of the lax team on campus and have started to harass the players.
If a crime occurred I hope that they can convict whoever did it. And if a crime wasn't committed I hope that the dancer fesses up so that this can blow over.
What I can't figure is that if the DA collected foreign DNA from the dancer and it doesn't match any of the players then why does he think he has a case?
My guess is that the dancers for whatever reason decided to collect the money and split. This resulted in the lax players saying some very unkind things which really pissed the dancers off so she filed the charges.
_________________
Later,
Berto |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jacomo wrote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | | and as for the hooker analogy i made earlier. look. you're doing something illegal and you have the nerve to go to the police and say someone has done something illegal to you. Thats as bad as these thieves who've broken into peoples houses and tried to sue the home owner for getting shot. what in the world did you think might happen? |
do you know that some of these women wouldn't hook or strip if they knew the law didn't have their backs at all. that could be a deterrent from the profession. for some a least. |
Well my friend, being an exotic dancer is not illegal. There's a difference between a hooker (which is illegal by the way) and an exotic dancer. The latter is perfectly legal in this country. If she feels that she was raped, she has every right to report that to the authorities. Makes me wonder if the roles were reverse if you would react to it the same way. If a white exotic dancer was allegedly gang raped by an all black basketball team, By now the media would already be blaming the hip hop culture and also blaming every black men in this country for being overly sexual. We do notice the double standards. By we i mean us black folks. But every time we mention it, they accuse us of playing the race card...... |
well for the record I'm a young black guy. so there that goes. I'm not even taking race into account. and yes I know Hooking is illegal and stripping is not. and please lets not fool ourselves with "exotic dancer." thats like calling a mailman, a mail technician. nothing wrong with being a mailman. you dont need a fancy name to cover up what you really do.
Exotic dancer  . Stripper my friend. Stripper. I know some personally. I went to college with a couple. You would've never have thunk it. I mean not in a million years. but there they were. stripping. yes I've been in a STRIP JOINT. shame on me, since i profess to be a christian. i wont lie about that. now that was like 6 or so years ago. but still. its the truth.
go read my above post where i clarified my position. |
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JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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"I'd love them to just keep their mouths shut," Hurlbert said. "It would be nice to be able to play fair on both sides."
HYPOCRITE
I.....can't.....stand.....this.....man.
petty
incompetent
racist
spineless
liar
attention whore
opportunist
stupid
small-time-cow-town-sh -at- t-kickin'-hick who got his @ss handed to him and refused to do the right thing, and in the process, made it WORSE for REAL victims of rape. |
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29074
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| postandpivot wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | But, Dont come crying when the alley gets to dark and something bad happens. Guess what, you play in that alley everynight. and you knew what was possible. its like playing russian roulette. dont be mad when the gun goes bang. What do you really expect? Some nice guys just sitting there watching? maybe. but you have to know there are going to be times when guys go WAAAY over board. You're dangling raw steak in front of a Lions Den. what do you expect? Respect? Is it right to disrespect anyone? No its never correct. But what do you expect when you choose these lines of profession. thats all I'm saying. |
So let's just look the other way? Ah, that is a nice way to live life. Any slut who wears short skirts has it coming to her, eh? What a sweet life. |
That is not what he is saying what he is saying is if you choose to partake in a certain profession or put yourself in a position for something like this to happen then yes it is partly your fault.
In that nobody is going to protect you you have to take care of yourself. But in no way is he saying she deserved it just that its not a shock it would go down like that. |
^^thank you basketballfan. and to encina1, Its not a sweet life. no we shouldn't just look the other way. but at the same time. If you were thinking about choosing a profession like such. and i told you that the police will not protect you if something were to happen. wouldn't that make you rethink going into that profession? Yes it would. and if you chose to go into that profession anyway. aren't you going into that profession AT YOUR OWN RISK? Yes you are.
same for the statement you made about "Any slut who wears short skirts has it coming to her." But if I tell you over and over again, that your protection from being physically violated will be hendered, if you choose to be "a slut wearing a short skirt". and that you will increase the likelihood of something bad happening to you. Those statements will make some think thrice(not twice) about being "a slut wearing a short skirt." Do you understand now.
I mean as for kids. if I tell my kid dont keep jumping over the fence because its a big dog in that yard that might bite you. when my kid ends up bit. What should I do? have the dog killed? NO. Take my kid to the doctor, and hope he has learned his lesson.
I mean for the ladies, aren't you gals tired of these questionable at best, cases about rape? Dont you know it takes away from those women who are just joggin on their usual route around the park and get snatched and raped. instead of hearing about one of these cases. I have to look at TV and see headlines, "Duke Team vs Strippers: Rape Case". There students of the Duke campus that have been raped that we dont hear about, because we would rather put this questionable case on TV for ratings. Terrible. |
will someone please ban this dumbass? i'm not even gonna get into the "it's her fault for dangling raw steak in front of lions" argument. How bout guys shouldn't rape women? what about that? did you even take the time to consider that some women become strippers because they don't have better options? Not everyone can be a Laker season ticket holder. This kind of ignorance should not be tolerated on this board. Will someone please kick this moron to the curb. |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| delaluz wrote: | I live in Raleigh (down the freeway from Duke) and I play lacrosse so I've read everying I could on this. Here's more "facts"
1. There was a very suspicious 911 call around 20-30 minutes before the "reported" rape. I've heard this call around 10 times on TV. The caller said something like:
"Me and my black friend were driving past this house and someone shouted out "**ger". We were in front of 610 Buchannan St. and a mob of guys are against. a wall. While we WALKED past the house someone shouted ***** and I was so humiliated...."
One of the defense lawyers commented that:
1. the caller first said that she drove by the house and then stated that she walked by the house.
2. the caller stated at lease one or twice the exact address of the house. However a TV reporter who was standing in front of the house couldn't read the number in the day time.
3. The police sent a car to the house within 5 minutes of the call. The police couldn't find a bunch of guys (or even one guy) in front of the house. They couldn't find the "caller" either.
The defense lawyers are now saying that they can prove that the first 911 caller was the second "dancer" (the Duke guys hired two dancers ... only one claimed rape)
Supposedly there are pictures of the dancer on a camera of one of the lax players that are date time stamped before the act was supposed to have taken place. In the pictures the dancer is already bruised, possibly cut, and very bombed.
I think that the defense "story" is that the lax team paid two dancers $800 for dancing two hours at a party. They got the dancers by calling two different "escort services" and not from the local strip places. The dancers showed up and one of them was bombed. They took the money danced for around 5 minutes and then left. The lax guys were pretty upset and talked one of the daners to go back in the house and dance some more. This is the one that claimed she was raped.
BTW, the one that made the claim used to work in a strip club and was arrested for stealing one of her customers cars (I think a cab). She lead the cops on a high speed chase and at one point tried to run over one of the cops (this part of the charge was dropped). I know, these folks can get raped too.
Some folks at Duke have plastered "wanted" pictures of the lax team on campus and have started to harass the players.
If a crime occurred I hope that they can convict whoever did it. And if a crime wasn't committed I hope that the dancer fesses up so that this can blow over.
What I can't figure is that if the DA collected foreign DNA from the dancer and it doesn't match any of the players then why does he think he has a case?
My guess is that the dancers for whatever reason decided to collect the money and split. This resulted in the lax players saying some very unkind things which really pissed the dancers off so she filed the charges. |
^^and thats what i was thinking the whole time. like i said earlier, of course she could've actually been raped. but more and more you look at it. it sounds like the above scenario. |
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703Soulja
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 987
Location: Burke, VA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| delaluz wrote: | I live in Raleigh (down the freeway from Duke) and I play lacrosse so I've read everying I could on this. Here's more "facts"
1. There was a very suspicious 911 call around 20-30 minutes before the "reported" rape. I've heard this call around 10 times on TV. The caller said something like:
"Me and my black friend were driving past this house and someone shouted out "**ger". We were in front of 610 Buchannan St. and a mob of guys are against. a wall. While we WALKED past the house someone shouted ***** and I was so humiliated...."
One of the defense lawyers commented that:
1. the caller first said that she drove by the house and then stated that she walked by the house.
2. the caller stated at lease one or twice the exact address of the house. However a TV reporter who was standing in front of the house couldn't read the number in the day time.
3. The police sent a car to the house within 5 minutes of the call. The police couldn't find a bunch of guys (or even one guy) in front of the house. They couldn't find the "caller" either.
The defense lawyers are now saying that they can prove that the first 911 caller was the second "dancer" (the Duke guys hired two dancers ... only one claimed rape)
Supposedly there are pictures of the dancer on a camera of one of the lax players that are date time stamped before the act was supposed to have taken place. In the pictures the dancer is already bruised, possibly cut, and very bombed.
I think that the defense "story" is that the lax team paid two dancers $800 for dancing two hours at a party. They got the dancers by calling two different "escort services" and not from the local strip places. The dancers showed up and one of them was bombed. They took the money danced for around 5 minutes and then left. The lax guys were pretty upset and talked one of the daners to go back in the house and dance some more. This is the one that claimed she was raped.
BTW, the one that made the claim used to work in a strip club and was arrested for stealing one of her customers cars (I think a cab). She lead the cops on a high speed chase and at one point tried to run over one of the cops (this part of the charge was dropped). I know, these folks can get raped too.
Some folks at Duke have plastered "wanted" pictures of the lax team on campus and have started to harass the players.
If a crime occurred I hope that they can convict whoever did it. And if a crime wasn't committed I hope that the dancer fesses up so that this can blow over.
What I can't figure is that if the DA collected foreign DNA from the dancer and it doesn't match any of the players then why does he think he has a case?
My guess is that the dancers for whatever reason decided to collect the money and split. This resulted in the lax players saying some very unkind things which really pissed the dancers off so she filed the charges. |
In most rape cases there isnt DNA evidence. Its a wide misconception and people think that DNA evidence is expected to be found when it really isnt. Add to that the fact that there are still some tests that have yet to be completed and there is still a strong case.
I go to NCCU in durham, and this girl that claims she was raped is a student like any other. I'd appreciate if, rather than refer to her as a stripper or hoe, some you would take a step back and actually look at the alleged victim, the student, the mother trying to provide for her family.... |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | But, Dont come crying when the alley gets to dark and something bad happens. Guess what, you play in that alley everynight. and you knew what was possible. its like playing russian roulette. dont be mad when the gun goes bang. What do you really expect? Some nice guys just sitting there watching? maybe. but you have to know there are going to be times when guys go WAAAY over board. You're dangling raw steak in front of a Lions Den. what do you expect? Respect? Is it right to disrespect anyone? No its never correct. But what do you expect when you choose these lines of profession. thats all I'm saying. |
So let's just look the other way? Ah, that is a nice way to live life. Any slut who wears short skirts has it coming to her, eh? What a sweet life. |
That is not what he is saying what he is saying is if you choose to partake in a certain profession or put yourself in a position for something like this to happen then yes it is partly your fault.
In that nobody is going to protect you you have to take care of yourself. But in no way is he saying she deserved it just that its not a shock it would go down like that. |
^^thank you basketballfan. and to encina1, Its not a sweet life. no we shouldn't just look the other way. but at the same time. If you were thinking about choosing a profession like such. and i told you that the police will not protect you if something were to happen. wouldn't that make you rethink going into that profession? Yes it would. and if you chose to go into that profession anyway. aren't you going into that profession AT YOUR OWN RISK? Yes you are.
same for the statement you made about "Any slut who wears short skirts has it coming to her." But if I tell you over and over again, that your protection from being physically violated will be hendered, if you choose to be "a slut wearing a short skirt". and that you will increase the likelihood of something bad happening to you. Those statements will make some think thrice(not twice) about being "a slut wearing a short skirt." Do you understand now.
I mean as for kids. if I tell my kid dont keep jumping over the fence because its a big dog in that yard that might bite you. when my kid ends up bit. What should I do? have the dog killed? NO. Take my kid to the doctor, and hope he has learned his lesson.
I mean for the ladies, aren't you gals tired of these questionable at best, cases about rape? Dont you know it takes away from those women who are just joggin on their usual route around the park and get snatched and raped. instead of hearing about one of these cases. I have to look at TV and see headlines, "Duke Team vs Strippers: Rape Case". There students of the Duke campus that have been raped that we dont hear about, because we would rather put this questionable case on TV for ratings. Terrible. |
will someone please ban this dumbass? i'm not even gonna get into the "it's her fault for dangling raw steak in front of lions" argument. How bout guys shouldn't rape women? what about that? did you even take the time to consider that some women become strippers because they don't have better options? Not everyone can be a Laker season ticket holder. This kind of ignorance should not be tolerated on this board. Will someone please kick this moron to the curb. |
first off, No name calling is a rule of this board. maybe you didn't know that. so I'll let it slide.
Pay attention to what i said. I said a lot of these women go into to stripping because they dont think they have any other option. The same reason a lot of kids from the hood go into selling drugs. I dont see you trying to have a pitty party for drug dealers. but thats another story.
relax for a second an read what i said. I never said, because someone is stripper that means she isn't capable of being raped. I said, when you choose stripping as your profession, you have to know you're playing russian roulette. especially if you do private parties like this duke one. And the fact that you know you're playing russian roulette and you go ahead and choose this anyway. does give me the right to second guess you if you bring up the fact that you've been raped. I'm sorry i dont believe every single word i hear from TV. I'm sorry that I dont anymore believe every single women that yells rape. I use to, but as of the last few years or so. more and more and more of these swiss cheese cases have come out. where it looks like the woman has a motive instead of actually being raped.
The words, "I was raped". are being thrown around like crazy nowadays. just like the words, "i've been sexually harassed.". do these things happen? of course they do. Should those whom have committed these crimes be punished? Of course.
But you cant tell me that this stuff isn't making it harder for actual rape victims. More and more questionable cases. means the less and less you will believe in the future. its only human nature.
When I used to hear about a rape case. I was on the lines of thinking "fry the guy". But nowadays. I'm thinking fry them both. fry him just in case he did do it. and her just in case she thinks she can lie about something like this.
Do you understand that if this woman is lying. she has somewhat ruined these guys reputation forever? I dont think people think about that part. they just see rape victim. how many of us on here really understand if you say a guy raped you and he really didn't. there will always be those who look at him as a rapist? do you know what it feels like to be looked at, as a rapist? especially if you really didn't do it.
how about we take a look at both sides, like the justic system suggests. instead of just assuming that any women who says, "rape" is 100% telling the truth. I wish that were the case. but we know it isn't. especially nowadays. We've seen this to many times as of late. |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| 703Soulja wrote: | | delaluz wrote: | I live in Raleigh (down the freeway from Duke) and I play lacrosse so I've read everying I could on this. Here's more "facts"
1. There was a very suspicious 911 call around 20-30 minutes before the "reported" rape. I've heard this call around 10 times on TV. The caller said something like:
"Me and my black friend were driving past this house and someone shouted out "**ger". We were in front of 610 Buchannan St. and a mob of guys are against. a wall. While we WALKED past the house someone shouted ***** and I was so humiliated...."
One of the defense lawyers commented that:
1. the caller first said that she drove by the house and then stated that she walked by the house.
2. the caller stated at lease one or twice the exact address of the house. However a TV reporter who was standing in front of the house couldn't read the number in the day time.
3. The police sent a car to the house within 5 minutes of the call. The police couldn't find a bunch of guys (or even one guy) in front of the house. They couldn't find the "caller" either.
The defense lawyers are now saying that they can prove that the first 911 caller was the second "dancer" (the Duke guys hired two dancers ... only one claimed rape)
Supposedly there are pictures of the dancer on a camera of one of the lax players that are date time stamped before the act was supposed to have taken place. In the pictures the dancer is already bruised, possibly cut, and very bombed.
I think that the defense "story" is that the lax team paid two dancers $800 for dancing two hours at a party. They got the dancers by calling two different "escort services" and not from the local strip places. The dancers showed up and one of them was bombed. They took the money danced for around 5 minutes and then left. The lax guys were pretty upset and talked one of the daners to go back in the house and dance some more. This is the one that claimed she was raped.
BTW, the one that made the claim used to work in a strip club and was arrested for stealing one of her customers cars (I think a cab). She lead the cops on a high speed chase and at one point tried to run over one of the cops (this part of the charge was dropped). I know, these folks can get raped too.
Some folks at Duke have plastered "wanted" pictures of the lax team on campus and have started to harass the players.
If a crime occurred I hope that they can convict whoever did it. And if a crime wasn't committed I hope that the dancer fesses up so that this can blow over.
What I can't figure is that if the DA collected foreign DNA from the dancer and it doesn't match any of the players then why does he think he has a case?
My guess is that the dancers for whatever reason decided to collect the money and split. This resulted in the lax players saying some very unkind things which really pissed the dancers off so she filed the charges. |
In most rape cases there isnt DNA evidence. Its a wide misconception and people think that DNA evidence is expected to be found when it really isnt. Add to that the fact that there are still some tests that have yet to be completed and there is still a strong case.
I go to NCCU in durham, and this girl that claims she was raped is a student like any other. I'd appreciate if, rather than refer to her as a stripper or hoe, some you would take a step back and actually look at the alleged victim, the student, the mother trying to provide for her family.... |
okay, as long as we can look at the Duke Team as Duke Students who are trying to make a better life for themselves as Duke Students once they graduate. Fair is fair. can we be fair? or will we keep it one sided? |
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LALfan4life
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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postandpivot
| Quote: | | If you were thinking about choosing a profession like such. and i told you that the police will not protect you if something were to happen. wouldn't that make you rethink going into that profession? Yes it would. and if you chose to go into that profession anyway. aren't you going into that profession AT YOUR OWN RISK? Yes you are. |
I am all for women being more responsible for protecting themselves; to many believe it is not their responsibility to do that. I do not agree however, that the police or anyone else should just take it upon themselves to decide who is and isn't worthy of justice.
| Quote: | | I mean as for kids. if I tell my kid dont keep jumping over the fence because its a big dog in that yard that might bite you. when my kid ends up bit. What should I do? have the dog killed? NO. Take my kid to the doctor, and hope he has learned his lesson. |
Your analogy, although I understood where you are going with it doesn't really fit here IMO. You not "Killing" the dog implied that the accuser of a crime doesn't deserve justice because she was warned it could be dangerous. I will assume that is not what you meant.
| Quote: | | I mean for the ladies, aren't you gals tired of these questionable at best, cases about rape? Dont you know it takes away from those women who are just joggin on their usual route around the park and get snatched and raped. instead of hearing about one of these cases. I have to look at TV and see headlines, "Duke Team vs Strippers: Rape Case". There students of the Duke campus that have been raped that we dont hear about, because we would rather put this questionable case on TV for ratings. Terrible.[/ |
Of course I'm tired of it. Women have to deal not only with the backwards sexist attitude that some how victims " had it coming" but also we have to deal with loser women (as guilty as rapist as far as I'm concerned and should face the same sentence if proven to be liars) who reduce this serious and very real issue to a mockery for their own personal gain.
What's troubling to me here is that sides have already been taken and NONE of us know all the facts of the case yet. How can we be sure what the truth is when we don't know ALL of the facts? |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: | postandpivot
| Quote: | | If you were thinking about choosing a profession like such. and i told you that the police will not protect you if something were to happen. wouldn't that make you rethink going into that profession? Yes it would. and if you chose to go into that profession anyway. aren't you going into that profession AT YOUR OWN RISK? Yes you are. |
I am all for women being more responsible for protecting themselves; to many believe it is not their responsibility to do that. I do not agree however, that the police or anyone else should just take it upon themselves to decide who is and isn't worthy of justice.
| Quote: | | I mean as for kids. if I tell my kid dont keep jumping over the fence because its a big dog in that yard that might bite you. when my kid ends up bit. What should I do? have the dog killed? NO. Take my kid to the doctor, and hope he has learned his lesson. |
Your analogy, although I understood where you are going with it doesn't really fit here IMO. You not "Killing" the dog implied that the accuser of a crime doesn't deserve justice because she was warned it could be dangerous. I will assume that is not what you meant.
| Quote: | | I mean for the ladies, aren't you gals tired of these questionable at best, cases about rape? Dont you know it takes away from those women who are just joggin on their usual route around the park and get snatched and raped. instead of hearing about one of these cases. I have to look at TV and see headlines, "Duke Team vs Strippers: Rape Case". There students of the Duke campus that have been raped that we dont hear about, because we would rather put this questionable case on TV for ratings. Terrible.[/ |
Of course I'm tired of it. Women have to deal not only with the backwards sexist attitude that some how victims " had it coming" but also we have to deal with loser women (as guilty as rapist as far as I'm concerned and should face the same sentence if proven to be liars) who reduce this serious and very real issue to a mockery for their own personal gain.
What's troubling to me here is that sides have already been taken and NONE of us know all the facts of the case yet. How can we be sure what the truth is when we don't know the ALL of the facts? |
WE never will know all the facts. the cold reality of most rape cases, where both parties were in some agreement to be in company with each other. usually turns it into a he say, she say case. if you find dna in some of these cases. that says what? that the two parties had sex, forcefully or willingly. once again. both sides still 50/50.
The fact of the matter is, even though a lot of people will look at her as a Stripper, therefore assume she is lying. there are a lot of people already trying to lench the Duke Team.
and I agree with you. if you lie about soemthing like this. you should get the same sentence that the accused would've gotten. But it isn't like that. Therefore the defedant(s) will always come out ont he losing end of the stick. ALWAYS. you will always have at least 1 little old lady pointing a finger at you in the market saying, "Rapist"
And I agree with you, that anyone who is a victim of a crime. is a victim of a crime. all the way from Gotti himself to a Stripper or hooker for that matter. But you and I both know society doesn't see it like that.
let some drug dealer get killed in a bad drug deal. no one besides his family and close friends could care less. why? because he dealt drugs. live by the gun, die by gun. but when we talk about rape, everything changes. why is that? because society set certain standards on certain things. some things are more incorrect to do then others. even though they are all incorrect. or immoral. thats the bottom line.
like we call women hoes for having sex with a few to many guys. but guys are studs for having sex with a mulitpile women? double standard. wrong is wrong. both are hoes in my book.
just like i think we should look at the duke team. as a Duke Team that wanted to have Strippers over.
and look at her as a Stripper that went to dance for the duke team.
both parties in my opinion compromised themselves. the problem with the alleged victims side of things. is that one may think, "if you compromise to the point of taking your clothes off to make money. what would stop you from compromising yourself from having sex(which is illegal) for even more money?"
^^and that is a valid thought process. lets not act like it isn't. just like its valid to say that a bunch crazy dukees drinking and having strippers over to the house, could turn into a situation where one of the dukees go to far.
its all possible. which is more probable? Both scenarios. which says what? Not guilty. because it cant be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty. |
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LALfan4life
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: |
will someone please ban this dumbass? i'm not even gonna get into the "it's her fault for dangling raw steak in front of lions" argument. How bout guys shouldn't rape women? what about that? did you even take the time to consider that some women become strippers because they don't have better options? Not everyone can be a Laker season ticket holder. This kind of ignorance should not be tolerated on this board. Will someone please kick this moron to the curb. |
I agree completely with you regarding the rapist taking responsibility for his actions. No matter what a woman does or says once it is CLEAR he is not wanted it is HIS responsibility to remove himself from the situation. Contrary to popular opinion males are not animals and are capable of controlling themselves no matter how hot and bothered he think he is.
No, honestly I think that is an excuse. We all have choices. Unless said woman is mentally impaired in some way there are always choices other than selling your soul for money. I put myself through college and I chose not to be a stripper to do it. |
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Tony Montana
Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 2962
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Statcat wrote: | | Anyone who actually followed Kobe's case knows that the actual reason for not going forward with the trial is that Hurlburt staged a mock trial session with Kate and she failed miserably. |
The actual phrase used in his office was "she was a disaster."
The other reasons included the fact that she admitted in writing to the DA that she had fabricated a major portion of her account; the fact that the states' original DNA experts were going to end up testifying FOR the defense; that the only DNA expert they could find to back up their insane theory of "sperm regeration" was some fish and game guy from Canada; that the DNA proved that she did indeed have sex with AT LEAST three different men in as many days, proving that she lied under oath about another part of her story; not to mention that they were having trouble keeping her alcohol and cocaine addictions under control.
That's just the cliff notes version. The case was so weak; it's pathetic that a knucklehead like Hurlbert is crawling out from whatever rock he's been hiding under to comment on yet another dubious rape claim; as has been observed, that wingnut Wendy Murphy wasn't far behind.
This is exactly why Kobe settled; notice how the little angel hasn't reared her fat ugly head during this? Settlement terms. She can't. Hurlbert and Murphy get their quick jabs in, but Kobe's name will otherwise disappear pretty quickly. Can't get traction without Faber in print or on TV, and she, by terms of the settlement, cannot ever discuss Kobe, or athletes and rape in general to anyone connected to any sort of media. Mackey was smart. If not, Katie would have the whole hour on Larry King Live once a week while this goes on. Instead, she is drinking her vodka, and snorting lines while trying to keep her heroin addicted, convicted felon husband from re-offending...
That said, I'm staying out of the whole argument that has developed in this thread. It's gonna get ugly... |
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hoopschick29
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 12898
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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2 things have already happened in this case that didn't happen with Kobe, and it's gonna end up going away a lor asooner because of it:
1. The players in question kept their mouths shut out the gate. They haven't even been interviewed by the police they lawyered up so fast. A lot of people say when you do this, it makes you look guilty. Who cares?? Make the cops do their job. Make the DA have to build a case against you. Don't give them anything. They had to test 46 guys just to try and figure out who had sex with this girl. How much easier would it have been on the police and the DA had 3 or 4 guys came forward and said, 'Yeah, I banged her?'
Had Kobe kept his mouth shut, they would've had to run the DNA tests before they could've even arrested him, much less charged him. By Kobe admitting pretty much off the top that he had sex with that skank, he singlehandedly eliminated 15 of the 20 hoops they would've had to jump through just to prove he had sexual contact with her. And in those 15 skipped hoops was the fact that she had multiple visitors in a very short period of time. They didn't find that out until AFTER they'd filed formal charges which takes us to #2.
2. Forcing law enforcement to go the scientific route FIRST shook the tree loose and we got a very good idea of who's been forthcoming. 46 guys tested of which at least 3 should've been a match, and not single trace of their DNA in her body. Now if you're the DA, you have a problem: you have a 'victim' who has been less than honest about her sexual activities. Those mulitple DNA samples belong to somebody...who??? THis thing would be a whole lot more complicated had ANY of the players cooperated with the police initially without counsel.
Kobe handled everything WRONG from start to finish. He let them interview him without counsel. They secretly recorded his interview and that would've been admissible in court (both criminal and civil) against him. He let them do a physical exam. He let them take his clothes for evidence and that would've been used against him. He admitted he had sex with the skank, placing himself at the scene of the alleged crime, and that's all you need to file a charge and get an indictment. 90% of their evidence against him was from stuff HE gave them.
This rape case will probably go away. Nobody's been formally charged, and that's likely where it will stay. These young men lawyered up, and forced the police to thoroughly check out their 'victim' before proceeding. When you're guilty, you have to be smart. But when you're innocent, you have to be SMARTER. |
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Tony Montana
Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 2962
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe was naiive. He didn't comprehend the magnitude of what was going on. Add to that the fact that he was doped up on painkillers from his surgical procedure, and you get the result.
His biggest mistake was horrible bodyguards. There was a great print interview at the time with the guy who handled security for Rodman, and he detailed all of the mistakes Kobe's guys made (as well as Kobe himself), and how he had been able to keep something like that from happening to Rodman.
Very true, though, about talking to the cops. The whole rush to judgement came when he first denied sex, and they knew they had physical evidence. From their point of view, it honestly did look bad for him. If they would have known at that moment that the "physical evidence" did not belong to Kobe, things may have developed differently. It is true that most likely Kobe would have never been charged had he not said anything and called Mackey from the get-go.
In the weird way things work, perhaps he would have been divorced (my assumption is that in a twisted way, the whole thing probably saved their relationship, and even strengthened it--they both had to truly grow up), possibly losing custody of his daughter; never would have had the new one on the way; and, chaos theory dictates that we thus would never had 81!!!
Everything works out in the end. It is a tribute to the strength of Kobe's character and drive that he came out of something like that and achieve so much more afterwards in both his personal and professional life.
Where is that skank today? Trying to control the cravings for the booze and the blow, rapidly burning through that settlement money. Hope it was worth it for her, because his life is still 1,000,000 times better than hers! |
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Basketball Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 24763
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Tony Montana wrote: | Kobe was naiive. He didn't comprehend the magnitude of what was going on. Add to that the fact that he was doped up on painkillers from his surgical procedure, and you get the result.
His biggest mistake was horrible bodyguards. There was a great print interview at the time with the guy who handled security for Rodman, and he detailed all of the mistakes Kobe's guys made (as well as Kobe himself), and how he had been able to keep something like that from happening to Rodman.
Very true, though, about talking to the cops. The whole rush to judgement came when he first denied sex, and they knew they had physical evidence. From their point of view, it honestly did look bad for him. If they would have known at that moment that the "physical evidence" did not belong to Kobe, things may have developed differently. It is true that most likely Kobe would have never been charged had he not said anything and called Mackey from the get-go.
In the weird way things work, perhaps he would have been divorced (my assumption is that in a twisted way, the whole thing probably saved their relationship, and even strengthened it--they both had to truly grow up), possibly losing custody of his daughter; never would have had the new one on the way; and, chaos theory dictates that we thus would never had 81!!!
Everything works out in the end. It is a tribute to the strength of Kobe's character and drive that he came out of something like that and achieve so much more afterwards in both his personal and professional life.
Where is that skank today? Trying to control the cravings for the booze and the blow, rapidly burning through that settlement money. Hope it was worth it for her, because his life is still 1,000,000 times better than hers! |
I don't think she would've left him maybe he would leave her. She loves the status too much to let it go I mean really... but yeah I know what you mean it happened for a reason.
But again I've said before Kobe is black accused of raping a white woman these Duke guys are white and privileged and accused of raping a black woman there are two different sets of rules for each of them so if you honestly think the Kobe case would've just "gone away" had he lawyered up ASAP don't be fooled.
Don't forget that KF has a baby too which is truly sad. |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | 2 things have already happened in this case that didn't happen with Kobe, and it's gonna end up going away a lor asooner because of it:
1. The players in question kept their mouths shut out the gate. They haven't even been interviewed by the police they lawyered up so fast. A lot of people say when you do this, it makes you look guilty. Who cares?? Make the cops do their job. Make the DA have to build a case against you. Don't give them anything. They had to test 46 guys just to try and figure out who had sex with this girl. How much easier would it have been on the police and the DA had 3 or 4 guys came forward and said, 'Yeah, I banged her?'
Had Kobe kept his mouth shut, they would've had to run the DNA tests before they could've even arrested him, much less charged him. By Kobe admitting pretty much off the top that he had sex with that skank, he singlehandedly eliminated 15 of the 20 hoops they would've had to jump through just to prove he had sexual contact with her. And in those 15 skipped hoops was the fact that she had multiple visitors in a very short period of time. They didn't find that out until AFTER they'd filed formal charges which takes us to #2.
2. Forcing law enforcement to go the scientific route FIRST shook the tree loose and we got a very good idea of who's been forthcoming. 46 guys tested of which at least 3 should've been a match, and not single trace of their DNA in her body. Now if you're the DA, you have a problem: you have a 'victim' who has been less than honest about her sexual activities. Those mulitple DNA samples belong to somebody...who??? THis thing would be a whole lot more complicated had ANY of the players cooperated with the police initially without counsel.
Kobe handled everything WRONG from start to finish. He let them interview him without counsel. They secretly recorded his interview and that would've been admissible in court (both criminal and civil) against him. He let them do a physical exam. He let them take his clothes for evidence and that would've been used against him. He admitted he had sex with the skank, placing himself at the scene of the alleged crime, and that's all you need to file a charge and get an indictment. 90% of their evidence against him was from stuff HE gave them.
This rape case will probably go away. Nobody's been formally charged, and that's likely where it will stay. These young men lawyered up, and forced the police to thoroughly check out their 'victim' before proceeding. When you're guilty, you have to be smart. But when you're innocent, you have to be SMARTER. |
excellent points hoopchick. this was the same thing, that i was thinking, when the DA tried to say, "why get lawyers if you're innocent?". Uh, because we can't trust the DA to do their job otherwise.
now as for the racial implications. well lets just say, it will probably always play a role. small or large. its still playing a role. and like i said earlier. it doesn't help the sistas case when in fact she is an "exotic" dancer. I dont care what you say. that fact will stick in the minds of people. |
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