Garnett?
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:41 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
the celtics are after bogut


They could probably get Bynum for a pretty good deal after this season.


Nope. They're over the cap so would need a sign and trade. With 70 mil committed next year, it would be hard to put a deal together that brought them bynum and kept them under the tax "apron" (which they'd have to do to receive a player via sign and trade).


Is it 4 mil over the lux tax? I haven't looked at that CBA stuff since the offseason.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
24 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
the celtics are after bogut


They could probably get Bynum for a pretty good deal after this season.


Nope. They're over the cap so would need a sign and trade. With 70 mil committed next year, it would be hard to put a deal together that brought them bynum and kept them under the tax "apron" (which they'd have to do to receive a player via sign and trade).


Is it 4 mil over the lux tax? I haven't looked at that CBA stuff since the offseason.


Yup.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:20 am    Post subject:

No way Garnett would come to the Lakers. KG is about as competitive as Kobe. He'd never come to the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject:

Lakers_Jester wrote:
No way Garnett would come to the Lakers. KG is about as competitive as Kobe. He'd never come to the Lakers.


I remember a Steven Nash saying the same thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject:

I'd love it, but I don't see it happening. That's a deal that fundamentally changes the culture of the Celtics in a way that would have a ripple effect throughout their organization. Pretty good way to piss off Pierce as well. Then again, Ainge showed with the Perkins trade that he can be tone deaf to such things, and I believe he's coveted Pau in the past.

I also have a hard time believing that these two bitter rivals would make a deal of this magnitude while one or both are contenders for a title. I know we've dealt with them before (Mihm deal), but neither squad was in the conversation at that point.

Garnett has a No Trade Clause in his contract as well.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I'd love it, but I don't see it happening. That's a deal that fundamentally changes the culture of the Celtics in a way that would have a ripple effect throughout their organization. Pretty good way to piss off Pierce as well. Then again, Ainge showed with the Perkins trade that he can be tone deaf to such things, and I believe he's coveted Pau in the past.

I also have a hard time believing that these two bitter rivals would make a deal of this magnitude while one or both are contenders for a title. I know we've dealt with them before (Mihm deal), but neither squad was in the conversation at that point.


Formula to beating Miami is not the current crop of players they have in Boston. KG is not enough against Bosh, though Pau may fare better against Bosh. You cannot compete with Miami in terms of just trying to match their perimeter quickness.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I'd love it, but I don't see it happening. That's a deal that fundamentally changes the culture of the Celtics in a way that would have a ripple effect throughout their organization. Pretty good way to piss off Pierce as well. Then again, Ainge showed with the Perkins trade that he can be tone deaf to such things, and I believe he's coveted Pau in the past.

I also have a hard time believing that these two bitter rivals would make a deal of this magnitude while one or both are contenders for a title. I know we've dealt with them before (Mihm deal), but neither squad was in the conversation at that point.


Formula to beating Miami is not the current crop of players they have in Boston. KG is not enough against Bosh, though Pau may fare better against Bosh. You cannot compete with Miami in terms of just trying to match their perimeter quickness.


I don't disagree. I'm just saying that this would be an organization shaking move for the C's. KG is the heart & soul of that squad. My (very outside) perspective is that they're trying to make one last run with this core while trying to beef up the ancillary pieces instead of looking to fundamentally change who they are.

I totally get your rationale, I just don't think that's what the C's are looking to do, based on their moves this offseason.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:53 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Lakers_Jester wrote:
No way Garnett would come to the Lakers. KG is about as competitive as Kobe. He'd never come to the Lakers.


I remember a Steven Nash saying the same thing.


KG's personality is not anything like Nash's though. Lots of differences. First, KG has already won a ring, he holds grudges (see Ray Allen), he is extremely loyal. Nash is like the most rationale dude in the NBA. KG is the most emotional.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
I'd love it, but I don't see it happening. That's a deal that fundamentally changes the culture of the Celtics in a way that would have a ripple effect throughout their organization. Pretty good way to piss off Pierce as well. Then again, Ainge showed with the Perkins trade that he can be tone deaf to such things, and I believe he's coveted Pau in the past.

I also have a hard time believing that these two bitter rivals would make a deal of this magnitude while one or both are contenders for a title. I know we've dealt with them before (Mihm deal), but neither squad was in the conversation at that point.

Garnett has a No Trade Clause in his contract as well.


You're probably right, but given the window of both teams, there is an argument to be made:

For Boston, the loss of Allen is huge. No, he can't do the things he did before on a regular basis, but he is still capable of carrying a team at times. With Pierce slowing down, and KG no longer being a dominant game in and out scorer, they have to rely on Rondo, and in critical times his lack of a shot makes him vulnerable, especially against a team like miami that can play him multiple ways. Boston simply can't score with Miami, and it gets worse if they go to bump and grind. There's a good chance putting pau back in his natural role rejuvenates him, and allows them to attack with the post, the P&R, some wing and post iso for Pierce, and Rondo orchestrating. If they get their young guard back, they have a nice back court both ways, and both Bass and Green complement pau and the rest well. It's a shot, and possibly worth taking. No judgment of one vs the other, but pau gives them a better shot vs MIA in my view, and that is everything.

For LA, KG is well set to fit next to DH (and with Nash), and his defense and intensity will be prized. His contract runs a year longer, but over the next couple of years the reduced tax hit mitigates that somewhat, and since the window is the next two years, that's OK. LA could still bring kobe back for year 3, and if it doesn't work, 2015 is a good FA year.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I'd love it, but I don't see it happening. That's a deal that fundamentally changes the culture of the Celtics in a way that would have a ripple effect throughout their organization. Pretty good way to piss off Pierce as well. Then again, Ainge showed with the Perkins trade that he can be tone deaf to such things, and I believe he's coveted Pau in the past.

I also have a hard time believing that these two bitter rivals would make a deal of this magnitude while one or both are contenders for a title. I know we've dealt with them before (Mihm deal), but neither squad was in the conversation at that point.

Garnett has a No Trade Clause in his contract as well.


You're probably right, but given the window of both teams, there is an argument to be made:

For Boston, the loss of Allen is huge. No, he can't do the things he did before on a regular basis, but he is still capable of carrying a team at times. With Pierce slowing down, and KG no longer being a dominant game in and out scorer, they have to rely on Rondo, and in critical times his lack of a shot makes him vulnerable, especially against a team like miami that can play him multiple ways. Boston simply can't score with Miami, and it gets worse if they go to bump and grind. There's a good chance putting pau back in his natural role rejuvenates him, and allows them to attack with the post, the P&R, some wing and post iso for Pierce, and Rondo orchestrating. If they get their young guard back, they have a nice back court both ways, and both Bass and Green complement pau and the rest well. It's a shot, and possibly worth taking. No judgment of one vs the other, but pau gives them a better shot vs MIA in my view, and that is everything.

For LA, KG is well set to fit next to DH (and with Nash), and his defense and intensity will be prized. His contract runs a year longer, but over the next couple of years the reduced tax hit mitigates that somewhat, and since the window is the next two years, that's OK. LA could still bring kobe back for year 3, and if it doesn't work, 2015 is a good FA year.


Yeah, KG at center for the Celts is not enough of a game changer against Miami. Put KG with dwight, that's a different story.

Pau would be able to sit in the post all day and run P&R with Rondo. Without making the deals personal, makes sense for both parties. And Pierce's contract runs out for 2014 anyways, so would fit perfectly in Celts rebuild plans.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Most are too giddy with the OKC victory to think trade, especially a trade with Gasol considering his recent good play, but this is really the perfect time.

Rondo is out and will be out a large portion of next year. Garnett (and Pierce for that matter) have limited long team value. Garnett, on the other hand, still has short term value. With Pau's recent good play, maybe this idea could be revisited, or, at least, visited.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Most are too giddy with the OKC victory to think trade, especially a trade with Gasol considering his recent good play, but this is really the perfect time.

Rondo is out and will be out a large portion of next year. Garnett (and Pierce for that matter) have limited long team value. Garnett, on the other hand, still has short term value. With Pau's recent good play, maybe this idea could be revisited, or, at least, visited.


would love a Gasol for KG, Barbosa, Lee trade... doubt the Celtics would do that although KG's contract is a year longer than Gasol's and they don't appear to be in love with Lee
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject:

He has a no trade clause.
If some of you think he'd accept a trade to the Lakers to chase a ring, we have a very different perception of Garnett...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject:

Garnett was not born a Celtic. My sense of Garnett is that while he's come to be a Celtic, winning still beats losing. I don't know, but he can lose, and lose and lose, or wave his trade clause and maybe win. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me--maybe more so if the team was not the Laks, but, off hand, I don't know a better fit.

Of course Kobe and Garnett will kill each other, but that's just fodder for 10,000 more threads.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject:

The guy publicly announced he has no Ray Allen number anymore because he went to the Heat. He's also publicly announced that he's going to retire a Celtic, and that it may happen any summer now.
And now he'll go and chase a title with LA of all places and probably retire a Laker. Nah, I don't see it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Allen leaving the team, via free agency and Garnett, being traded to benefit both himself and the team, seems apples and oranges.

I have no idea what is in his head, but he seems as competitive as any player I've seen. So, I can only try to put myself in his situation and ask myself, if I were this competitive, how might I react.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject:

if he didn't have no-trade, i'd see it as apples and oranges too. in this case he'll be asked "hey, the Lakers gave us a call and.. they really want you. what say you?"
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject:

I think the basketball merits of the trade are more interesting.

What, realistically, would a deal look like? Gasol/Meeks for KG/Lee? Lee and Bradley would both be upgrades for backcourt defense, and Lee is also a pretty good shooter.

KG is no longer an elite offensive player--Pau is more skilled and a much better passer. But on a per-minute basis he's still an absolutely monstrous defender.
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