OFFICIAL GASOL TRADE DISCUSSION AND P&M THREAD (Marc Stein: Suns interested in Pau, pg 502)
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dont_be_a_wuss
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject:

8>24 wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Gasol is European. Amare is not.


Gasol is 2X champ. Amare walked on the court when nash got hip checked by horry.


Pau has dropped off a whole lot since then. It all depends on what else NY is willing to give.
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Mamba/Superman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject:

Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject:

LeBron has an opt out in 2015, I did not know that. I'm not paying Rudy Gay 20m, no way I'm giving him the max when I can sign Love the next year instead.
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LakersARETheGOAT
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject:

Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.


Odoms has declined dramatically. Who would clippers play at SF? Barnes then their backup? backup PG? I don't think.clippers would do that neither would lakers.
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8>24
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
8>24 wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Gasol is European. Amare is not.


Gasol is 2X champ. Amare walked on the court when nash got hip checked by horry.


Pau has dropped off a whole lot since then. It all depends on what else NY is willing to give.


Same w Amare, dramatically. Unless they're willing to give up Melo, they have no pieces.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject:

LakersARETheGOAT wrote:
Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.


Odoms has declined dramatically. Who would clippers play at SF? Barnes then their backup? backup PG? I don't think.clippers would do that neither would lakers.
Grant Hill is suppose to come back soon,im sure they can survive till he gets back.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject:

pau blake for smith amare


i say roll the dice
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Lak3rs1987
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject:

Why the hell would we want Amare? He sucks now & has 1 of the worst contracts ever.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject:

He put up 18 and 5 on a high percentage in his last game in October. In L.A. he'd feast on the looks and the lanes Pau has open but never takes advantage of. As long as he can be as good of a defender on the P and R as Pau (meaning better than horrific), he would do well in L.A.

I'll tell you one thing about Amare, he brings it in the playoffs. He's also not scared whatsoever of Ibaka and Perkins and that whole Pau nonsense. Bad defender maybe, bad rebounder? He's average in that regard, but a scoring boost would not be a bad thing to have.

Next to anyone other than Dwight I'd say no, but he brings everything you could possibly want from a PF next to Dwight.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject:

Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.



Exactly what we need, another PG, a fat Odom, and an offensive minded 3 when MWP has actually been playing well. Where would our needs be addressed?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject:

One of the issues with trading Pau is that in the playoffs, halfcourt offense and defense is at a higher premium. Having another guy who can play in the post and play at the rim on D is huge. Neither Smith nor Amare can compare in that regard. Smith would make for more entertaining basketball, but isn't the same playoff option as Pau is (even regardless of Pau's tendency to shrink in the playoffs the last two years).

People also forget that playing next to Kobe is a skill. If you're an all-star, you're numbers naturally deflate playing next to him because there is just less opportunities. If you're a role player, your numbers get better because he opens up the floor for you. Pau has learned to play off Kobe and play well with him. I'm not sure a player like Smith, or Amare, or many others, could do as Pau has done ... no less in the time available before its the winning season in May and June.

I think the key to getting Pau to be more productive is to get him back in the post. We've been using a "reserve" lineup with Howard as the only star left on the floor and playing Gasol exclusively with Kobe. I think that's a mistake. We should have Gasol out there as the post option surrounded by shooters with Howard with Kobe running that killer pick and roll to death. I think Pau is better in the post on offense while Howard is better moving without the ball and feeding off the scrambling defense Kobe causes.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject:

Amare + Dwight = frontcourt bigs with no back to the basket game. We'll never hear the end of it from pnp
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dont_be_a_wuss
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
One of the issues with trading Pau is that in the playoffs, halfcourt offense and defense is at a higher premium. Having another guy who can play in the post and play at the rim on D is huge. Neither Smith nor Amare can compare in that regard. Smith would make for more entertaining basketball, but isn't the same playoff option as Pau is (even regardless of Pau's tendency to shrink in the playoffs the last two years).

People also forget that playing next to Kobe is a skill. If you're an all-star, you're numbers naturally deflate playing next to him because there is just less opportunities. If you're a role player, your numbers get better because he opens up the floor for you. Pau has learned to play off Kobe and play well with him. I'm not sure a player like Smith, or Amare, or many others, could do as Pau has done ... no less in the time available before its the winning season in May and June.

I think the key to getting Pau to be more productive is to get him back in the post. We've been using a "reserve" lineup with Howard as the only star left on the floor and playing Gasol exclusively with Kobe. I think that's a mistake. We should have Gasol out there as the post option surrounded by shooters with Howard with Kobe running that killer pick and roll to death. I think Pau is better in the post on offense while Howard is better moving without the ball and feeding off the scrambling defense Kobe causes.


Nothing I have seen in the last 2 years leads me to believe Pau has a post season advantage over ANYONE
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USCandLakers
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject:

I don't know about an Amar'e trade. If you're not going to improve the defense and athleticism, then there's really no reason to make the trade. I really want to get Josh Smith. Amar'e fits the offense but we need to improve that defense, especially for when Nash comes back.

Smith/Howard, not quite Wallace/Wallace but pretty damn good and the best in the league by far.
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Last edited by USCandLakers on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject:

dvdrdiscs wrote:
Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.



Exactly what we need, another PG, a fat Odom, and an offensive minded 3 when MWP has actually been playing well. Where would our needs be addressed?


its a pipdream,the deal, but bledsoe could start on alot of teams, hes pretty damn good,50x better than our pgs, id love for him to lead our 2nd unit. butler is 50x the shooter and slasher that mwp is,hed be a coup in our 2nd unit. and odom will show signs of life soon enough. id suck a fart out of a butt to do that trade.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
One of the issues with trading Pau is that in the playoffs, halfcourt offense and defense is at a higher premium. Having another guy who can play in the post and play at the rim on D is huge. Neither Smith nor Amare can compare in that regard. Smith would make for more entertaining basketball, but isn't the same playoff option as Pau is (even regardless of Pau's tendency to shrink in the playoffs the last two years).

People also forget that playing next to Kobe is a skill. If you're an all-star, you're numbers naturally deflate playing next to him because there is just less opportunities. If you're a role player, your numbers get better because he opens up the floor for you. Pau has learned to play off Kobe and play well with him. I'm not sure a player like Smith, or Amare, or many others, could do as Pau has done ... no less in the time available before its the winning season in May and June.

I think the key to getting Pau to be more productive is to get him back in the post. We've been using a "reserve" lineup with Howard as the only star left on the floor and playing Gasol exclusively with Kobe. I think that's a mistake. We should have Gasol out there as the post option surrounded by shooters with Howard with Kobe running that killer pick and roll to death. I think Pau is better in the post on offense while Howard is better moving without the ball and feeding off the scrambling defense Kobe causes.


Nothing I have seen in the last 2 years leads me to believe Pau has a post season advantage over ANYONE


Here you go...



Now you've seen something.
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LAL82412
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject:

dvdrdiscs wrote:
Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.



Exactly what we need, another PG, a fat Odom, and an offensive minded 3 when MWP has actually been playing well. Where would our needs be addressed?


Bledsoe would immediately become the best PG on the Lakers and their 3rd best player. Dude is a lil' beast!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
One of the issues with trading Pau is that in the playoffs, halfcourt offense and defense is at a higher premium. Having another guy who can play in the post and play at the rim on D is huge. Neither Smith nor Amare can compare in that regard. Smith would make for more entertaining basketball, but isn't the same playoff option as Pau is (even regardless of Pau's tendency to shrink in the playoffs the last two years).

People also forget that playing next to Kobe is a skill. If you're an all-star, you're numbers naturally deflate playing next to him because there is just less opportunities. If you're a role player, your numbers get better because he opens up the floor for you. Pau has learned to play off Kobe and play well with him. I'm not sure a player like Smith, or Amare, or many others, could do as Pau has done ... no less in the time available before its the winning season in May and June.

I think the key to getting Pau to be more productive is to get him back in the post. We've been using a "reserve" lineup with Howard as the only star left on the floor and playing Gasol exclusively with Kobe. I think that's a mistake. We should have Gasol out there as the post option surrounded by shooters with Howard with Kobe running that killer pick and roll to death. I think Pau is better in the post on offense while Howard is better moving without the ball and feeding off the scrambling defense Kobe causes.


Agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I think you are over-rating Pau's defense and his defensive fit with this team. And I think Pau's potential/likely playoff performance is a reason to be concerned after the last two post seasons, not a reason to keep him.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject:

LAL82412 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.



Exactly what we need, another PG, a fat Odom, and an offensive minded 3 when MWP has actually been playing well. Where would our needs be addressed?


Bledsoe would immediately become the best PG on the Lakers and their 3rd best player. Dude is a lil' beast!


Taking age and $ in to consideration = Pau<<<<<<<<<<Bledsoe
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USCandLakers
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject:

LAL82412 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.



Exactly what we need, another PG, a fat Odom, and an offensive minded 3 when MWP has actually been playing well. Where would our needs be addressed?


Bledsoe would immediately become the best PG on the Lakers and their 3rd best player. Dude is a lil' beast!


Are we trading Nash too?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject:

I dont know anything about Twitter or how to post it here but I heard Chris Palmer on ESPN tweeted "here come the Pau for Amare trade rumors" a bit ago. Was he making a joke or was there a legitimate rumor I missed?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject:

Much of the basis for wanting to get rid of Pau relies on a "grass is greener" approach while ignoring that the player we are trading for will have a completely different role on this team than the one they came from. There exists some currency in having a star player who 1) know how to play next to and even compliment Kobe, 2) knows how to survive in the LA market, 3) is versatile enough to be able to subjugate his game to facilitate for other, 4) has a height advantage at the PF spot to be a great rebounder and 5) has proven championship experience.

I see a lot of assuming going on when we talk about bringing in another player. Nash wasn't a fit right off the bat, neither has Howard been a perfect fit. For some, it just takes time, while for others, its just not a good fit. You have guys in Amare and Smith who have never been winners and typically have been on teams which allowed them the offensive freedom to shoot or hog the ball whenever they wanted. They have never been asked to be anything less than a 2nd option, if that... no less a 3rd or 4th option as they could be on this team. Their defense is also subpar - sure, they make flashy plays time to time, but they are both subpar defenders.

The point is, new isn't always better... especially when you take into account the burdens a new player would have joining this lakers team. There is a lot that goes into being the right fit next to Kobe, Nash, Howard, and even Artest. It's asking a lot of a player to fit into a team with just Kobe, no less the other guys. This is particularly risky when that player has never had to make that kind of adjustment before. Ironically, between Smith and Amare, Amare comes the closest to having to make that adjustment (see playing with Carmelo) and seems to be failing at it. If he can't handle Melo, he's going to have just as much problems playing next to Kobe and Howard.

I'm for trading Gasol for the right fit, but for the life of me, I don't see that guy being available (especially if you take into account the fact this team will not take on salary past the next two years so to preserve its salary cap plan). The closest I've come to it is a trade with Phoenix involving Luis Scola and Jared Dudley.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject:

gill2k wrote:
Amare + Dwight = frontcourt bigs with no back to the basket game. We'll never hear the end of it from pnp


True
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
LAL82412 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Mamba/Superman wrote:
Clippers on a 4game losing streak,I say Mitch calls up the Clippers gm and offer Gasol for Bledsoe/Odom/Butler.They need a offensive big Griifin is overrated,and Jordan is still raw on offense.



Exactly what we need, another PG, a fat Odom, and an offensive minded 3 when MWP has actually been playing well. Where would our needs be addressed?


Bledsoe would immediately become the best PG on the Lakers and their 3rd best player. Dude is a lil' beast!


Are we trading Nash too?


The Clippers would NEVER do that trade but are you saying that Nash > Bledsoe in 2012?

Please tell me you are joking.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject:

LakersARETheGOAT wrote:
Utah, Lakers and Houston need to think of a trade

Nash/Blake/Morris
Kobe/Bell/Meeks
Parsons/Pietrus
Milsap/Jamison
Howard/Hill

Get it done Mitch


It would take Howard to get Parsons.
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