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greenfrog
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 Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| kray28_ wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Dwight wanted to leave from day one. Whether Phil was here or not makes no difference. |
I think Phil being here would have changed quite a few outcomes. He would have been able to manage Dwight, and I think he could have sold him on a role that suited team wins over anything else.
Most importantly, he would have held Dwight accountable for his actions. |
absolutely disagree with that last part. he would have appeased him like he did shaq because that's all his psyche can handle. there's a reason he had whipping boys (kobe, i would say, was the whipping boy for him on the lakers) and that's because he usually knew what players could take. dwight can't take anything but praise.
Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| I think Phil would've alienated Dwight just as much, if not more so than MDA. Dwight has proven he's not a player that can be pushed to greatness. He wants to be coddled. In Houston he has a coach that's willing to sacrifice what could be an elite offense for Dwight's (improved but still inefficient) post game. Shaq and Kobe allowed Phil to define what greatness was and rose to those levels. Dwight wants a coach that placates his own misguided sense of "greatness." |
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deal
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | I think Phil would've alienated Dwight just as much, if not more so than MDA. Dwight has proven he's not a player that can be pushed to greatness. He wants to be coddled. In Houston he has a coach that's willing to sacrifice what could be an elite offense for Dwight's (improved but still inefficient) post game. Shaq and Kobe allowed Phil to define what greatness was and rose to those levels. Dwight wants a coach that placates his own misguided sense of "greatness." |
Possibly right, but we'll never know... |
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composite
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe this is even a question.
If there's one thing Phil could do, it was an ability to get people to "buy" into his scheme. MJ, Shaq and Kobe all had flaws and personality issues that kept them from winning. Until Phil came along.
And I'm sure Phil knew all about Dwight's shortcomings. He's a coach. Of course he knew. He'd be able to manage personalities.
But the biggest thing that Phil brought was credibility. Immense credibility that 11 rings can bring. MDA could utter the same words as Phil, but Phil's words would carry much more weight because of his success. You could tell Phil even tried to counsel Dwight thru texts.
Plus, Phil would've been able to manage Kobe better. He could've handled the idiotic "alpha dog" and "my team" comments and ego issues better than MDA. Especially because Kobe trusted Phil.
We'll never know whether Dwight would've stayed or not if Phil was here. But you can't assume it would've made no difference. Phil is infinitely a better coach and personality manager. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | I think Phil would've alienated Dwight just as much, if not more so than MDA. Dwight has proven he's not a player that can be pushed to greatness. He wants to be coddled. In Houston he has a coach that's willing to sacrifice what could be an elite offense for Dwight's (improved but still inefficient) post game. Shaq and Kobe allowed Phil to define what greatness was and rose to those levels. Dwight wants a coach that placates his own misguided sense of "greatness." |
And MDA actually did coddle him quite a bit. He did have the 2nd most post up opportunities in the league.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | I think Phil would've alienated Dwight just as much, if not more so than MDA. Dwight has proven he's not a player that can be pushed to greatness. He wants to be coddled. In Houston he has a coach that's willing to sacrifice what could be an elite offense for Dwight's (improved but still inefficient) post game. Shaq and Kobe allowed Phil to define what greatness was and rose to those levels. Dwight wants a coach that placates his own misguided sense of "greatness." |
And MDA actually did coddle him quite a bit. He did have the 2nd most post up opportunities in the league. |
it was more public support he wanted. the rant dwight's enabler/father went on explained it very well. |
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raven
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Best post I've read on LG in the last 11 years.
Unbelievably true---most Laker fans are indenial about this.
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salami
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| raven wrote: | Best post I've read on LG in the last 11 years.
Unbelievably true---most Laker fans are indenial about this. |
thanks for the compliment
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| *See Carmelo Anthony's improvement in the Last 15 games |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's been a year and people are still making threads about Dwight in the lounge?
Phil is a knick working on Melo.
Dwight is a rocket working with mchale and Hakeem.
Move on people. |
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Fallout
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Dwight made the right choice leaving, train wreck year.
But with Phil? GOAT coach? Different story even if have a bad year.
Anyways F* him since no longer a Laker.
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dabask11
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallout wrote: | Dwight made the right choice leaving, train wreck year.
But with Phil? GOAT coach? Different story even if have a bad year.
Anyways F* him since no longer a Laker. |
Regardless of whether phil was here or not, the lakers were better off long term without dwight. Better have a train wreck in one of the better drafts than a train wreck in a weak one.
Story is still the same with Phil. If anything, Phil would have fan the flames. Remember, this is a guy who's attitude annoyed Steve Nash. Even Phil has his limits (see Gasol Slap).
Your right screw him since he's no longer a Laker. I'm just disappointed he left in a way that makes Bynum look like a better Laker than him. |
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Laker Lover
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dwight didn't want to play with an old, achillies torn, 2 year extension Kobe Bryant and broken leg, old ass Nash.
Only chance Dwight would have stayed is if Phil was coach and Lakers dropped Kobe and used the money instead on 2 younger superstars.
Honoring Kobe set the Lakers back years. Not to mention the CP3 fiasco. Could have easily been CP3 and Dwight alongside another superstar like Carmelo. Woulda been nice. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | Dwight didn't want to play with an old, achillies torn, 2 year extension Kobe Bryant and broken leg, old ass Nash.
Only chance Dwight would have stayed is if Phil was coach and Lakers dropped Kobe and used the money instead on 2 younger superstars.
Honoring Kobe set the Lakers back years. Not to mention the CP3 fiasco. Could have easily been CP3 and Dwight alongside another superstar like Carmelo. Woulda been nice
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Fwiw, if LA amnesties Kobe, Dwight, Pau, Nash, Arrest, and Blake still put them way over the cap this year, but they'd have around the same cap situation afterward that they do now, with Dwight instead of Kobe and a high lotto pick.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Potato-Mania wrote: | | I figured he would be back to that 22 an 12 type of player this year so I am kind of disappointed. He is very inconsistent. |
He hasn't been inconsistent for us. He's at 19/12 this season, on only 11 shots a night. The 22 point version got around 13 shots a night. His fg% is back at 59% and his ft % is in the mid 50's range again.
He has clearly lost some hops though, which have decreased his rebounding and block numbers. I never expect to see him grabbing 14 boards and blocking 3 shots a night again. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | PJ is a master at managing egos, moreso than some huckster like Antoni. |
This. I think Howard would have listened to PJ. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | I think Phil would've alienated Dwight just as much, if not more so than MDA. Dwight has proven he's not a player that can be pushed to greatness. He wants to be coddled. In Houston he has a coach that's willing to sacrifice what could be an elite offense for Dwight's (improved but still inefficient) post game. Shaq and Kobe allowed Phil to define what greatness was and rose to those levels. Dwight wants a coach that placates his own misguided sense of "greatness." |
The bolded isn't true. There is nothing elite about Houston's run and gun, live and die by the three offense. Especially not when it comes to playoff basketball. List the teams that won titles without scoring in the post. I'll wait....
Howard's limited post game, which still creates double teams, still helps the team a lot. It prevents Harden from having to carry the offense all game which helps him close (look at his Q4 numbers this year compared to last, and he was wore down at the end of last year as well headed into the playoffs) and it creates looks for others. Our offense this year is at the same level that is was last year, and that's with us having worse perimeter shooters (since the 3-ball is such a big piece of our offense). |
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focus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | bandiger wrote: | | PJ is a master at managing egos, moreso than some huckster like Antoni. |
This. I think Howard would have listened to PJ. |
There is listening. And there is buying in. Phil is a master at managing egos. But he had Shaq, Kobe, MJ and Pippen as his tools,with whatever flaws they had in their game and personalities. They developed themselves in response to Phil's challenges, the triangle challenges. And bought in. And internalized it, to make themselves better.
All of those guys dwarf Dwight in their mental game (along with their actual games). Dwight is not mature/wise/bright whatever enough to see flaws requiring development that those legends did. Emotional intelligence above all.
He would have listened, at the beginning. Then it would be after the beginning. Dwight is good at beginnings though. It's a relief for Houston that he is second to Harden. He is having a good season as a #2.
But maybe Phil plus Kobe and Pau could have gotten more out of Dwight and diminished whatever individual desires he has in favor of playing a winning way. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Floyd24NDLAL wrote: | IDK maybe Phil decides to sit Kobe & D-12 down & have a talk with them? Tell them to play to their strengths not their weaknesses?
PHIL WILL ALWAYS B THE ZEN MASTER!!!!!!!! |
Like he sat Kobe and Shaq down to tell them to get along? Phil would have driven Howard away quickly, he isn't mentally tough enough to play for Phil. And since he is on the downside of his prime, good he is gone.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | *See Carmelo Anthony's improvement in the Last 15 games |
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