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_#1_
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
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Location: Next door to 24
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 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| To me this is not news, a 100% no brainer. It would have been insane not to extend Mitch and sent fans over the edge. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This offseason (and possibly the next 2) will test Mitch in the new CBA. |
Not just him, but a lot of GM's, IMO.
Mitch I think knows the strengths and limitations of the CBA and what he can play with. However where I would be concerned is whether he has the vision to build a team completely from scratch to a championship core. A lot of GM's can put together really good teams. But to do what Mitch has to do starting summer 2014 won't be easy. Jerry West did it with Shaq/Kobe in 1996. However Mitch always had Kobe to play with. Moving forward he has to put together a roster that can do it all, without that piece in place. Will be very, very hard.
The time line should be till 2016. 2011 new CBA comes into play. 2016, that's 5 years. If in 5 years as a GM in the new CBA he doesn't have the Lakers close to the top with a new core, then it's time to start thinking differently about his capabilities. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | This offseason (and possibly the next 2) will test Mitch in the new CBA. |
Not just him, but a lot of GM's, IMO.
Mitch I think knows the strengths and limitations of the CBA and what he can play with. However where I would be concerned is whether he has the vision to build a team completely from scratch to a championship core. A lot of GM's can put together really good teams. But to do what Mitch has to do starting summer 2014 won't be easy. Jerry West did it with Shaq/Kobe in 1996. However Mitch always had Kobe to play with. Moving forward he has to put together a roster that can do it all, without that piece in place. Will be very, very hard.
The time line should be till 2016. 2011 new CBA comes into play. 2016, that's 5 years. If in 5 years as a GM in the new CBA he doesn't have the Lakers close to the top with a new core, then it's time to start thinking differently about his capabilities. |
That's a fair point, but up until 96, the same argument would have applied to West. Both of them know what championship cores look like, so it is really a matter of whether Mitch can go get one, and he is very good at going and getting.
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JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | This offseason (and possibly the next 2) will test Mitch in the new CBA. |
Not just him, but a lot of GM's, IMO.
Mitch I think knows the strengths and limitations of the CBA and what he can play with. However where I would be concerned is whether he has the vision to build a team completely from scratch to a championship core. A lot of GM's can put together really good teams. But to do what Mitch has to do starting summer 2014 won't be easy. Jerry West did it with Shaq/Kobe in 1996. However Mitch always had Kobe to play with. Moving forward he has to put together a roster that can do it all, without that piece in place. Will be very, very hard.
The time line should be till 2016. 2011 new CBA comes into play. 2016, that's 5 years. If in 5 years as a GM in the new CBA he doesn't have the Lakers close to the top with a new core, then it's time to start thinking differently about his capabilities. |
That's a fair point, but up until 96, the same argument would have applied to West. Both of them know what championship cores look like, so it is really a matter of whether Mitch can go get one, and he is very good at going and getting. |
I think it is a huge advantage that Mitch had the Kobe buliding block to start with. Not that I think it was a crutch or doubt Mitch's abilities, quite the opposite. But I think being able rely on Kobe has allowed Mitch more than enough time to patiently and confidently carve a path and come into his own as a GM. Those lessons learned will serve him (and us Laker fans) well for many years to come. Losing Dr. Buss would be much more worrisome for me if I didn't have the faith that I do in Mitch. He is so valuable that I don't think that even Jim will screw things up...
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, and the same applied to West. Not horribly difficult to build around Kareem, Magic, Wilkes, MacAdoo, Cooper, Nixon, Rambis... Oh, and the first pick in the draft, with Worthy, Cummings, and 'Nique as choices as a welcome to the job present.
People also forget that Mitch spent long years under West and was already doing a lot of the heavy lifting by the mid-late 90's.
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clutchkobe
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Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
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TheElectronica
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 1392
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
They lost Dwight but they missed out on having to extend Bynum.
They tried to unload declining Pau and Odom for CP3. Stern stupidly shot that down (think about it, cornerstone of each trade was Dragic from the Rockets and Gordon from Clippers, who would you rather have?).
In addition to netting stars like Cp3, Dwight, and Pau, Mitch was able to secure trades for Ariza, Hill, Brown, etc. while giving away nothing. He's kept the Lakers under a relatively flexible financial situation.
So pretty much he's proven he knows when to get rid of players at their highest peak of value, he's able to shed salary while taking on reclamation projects that tend to work out well, and he steered clear of putting the Lakers in a bad financial situation. They took a huge risk on Nash and Dwight. It didn't fail. This summer we already have cap space along with a lottery pick. Most teams don't rebound that quickly. Unlike the Knicks we didn't forgo both the future by giving away draft picks AND taking on bad contracts. Mitch has done a very good job taking on big risks while giving the Lakers an out. In this case, financial flexibility immediately after a failed experiment. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| GasolBynumKobe wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | GasolBynumKobe wrote: | He's not a great GM and he's not the worst.
Other than the Gasol trade which he admitted he wouldn't have done if Bynum didn't get hurt, he hasn't done anything. Hell, he can't even tank right by trading our only assets(Jordan Hill and Kaman) for 2nd round picks or TPE's.  |
OK |
Ok what? Truth hurts I know.
He's in the bottom tier of the GM's. When you can't even build a team that tanks when you need to, that speaks volume. |
Funny that other GMs and owners in the league disagree with you. And it speaks a lot about you that you base your comments on losing, not on winning.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerCity wrote: | | thesource wrote: | | GasolBynumKobe wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | GasolBynumKobe wrote: | He's not a great GM and he's not the worst.
Other than the Gasol trade which he admitted he wouldn't have done if Bynum didn't get hurt, he hasn't done anything. Hell, he can't even tank right by trading our only assets(Jordan Hill and Kaman) for 2nd round picks or TPE's. |
OK |
Ok what? Truth hurts I know.
He's in the bottom tier of the GM's. When you can't even build a team that tanks when you need to, that speaks volume. |
You don't build a team to tank.
He traded for CP3, Nash, Howard, Ariza, Shannon Brown, etc.
Mitch Kupchak is a great GM. That is not even debatable. |
traded for Pau, signed MWP, re-signed LO, signed Horace grant in 01 |
That was his first act as GM, trading Rice for Grant and Foster. He started out with a great move.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Tark the Shark wrote: | This is great news. I think Mitch is a great trade negotiator. I'd like to see the FO get a pitchman/salesman now to attract FAs. It can be someone like Magic or a new coach that can recruit like Coach Cal. I don't think Mitch can fill that role and Jim definitely can't.
Jim - Hopefully, he just signs the checks and does nothing else. I'd hope his title becomes more of a figurehead position as time goes on. The worst thing for the Lakers is him actually being involved in basketball operation.
Mitch - Negotiator
? - Pitchman |
Mitch has the respect of the player agents, that is over half the battle.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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VegasLakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. |
Yeah! What have you done for me lately, Mitch? Forget the larger body of work - we're not into the big picture here in Lakerland. What did he do to improve the team five minutes ago? What about since I started writing this post!?
In the time it's taken me to write this post, Mitch has acquired exactly ZERO impact players. ZERO. Time to stop living in the past. Mitch has had, like, five minutes to build a contender and hasn't done it!
| Quote: |
in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
Exactly. If, in the last three years, Mitch had traded for Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Steve Nash - that would be one thing.
But to keep Bynum and let his knees finally expire while he was on our roster, pass up on Chris Paul and say "no thanks" to Steve Nash - its ridiculous. Time to go, Mitch! You've done NOTHING. |
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clutchkobe
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Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| VegasLakerFan wrote: | | clutchkobe wrote: | | you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. |
Yeah! What have you done for me lately, Mitch? Forget the larger body of work - we're not into the big picture here in Lakerland. What did he do to improve the team five minutes ago? What about since I started writing this post!?
In the time it's taken me to write this post, Mitch has acquired exactly ZERO impact players. ZERO. Time to stop living in the past. Mitch has had, like, five minutes to build a contender and hasn't done it!
| Quote: |
in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
Exactly. If, in the last three years, Mitch had traded for Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Steve Nash - that would be one thing.
But to keep Bynum and let his knees finally expire while he was on our roster, pass up on Chris Paul and say "no thanks" to Steve Nash - its ridiculous. Time to go, Mitch! You've done NOTHING. |
pleae please stop talking about a trade that did not happen!!!!! is that like the championship we almost won......it didn't happen. |
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LakerCity
Star Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 2496
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | clutchkobe wrote: | | you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. |
Yeah! What have you done for me lately, Mitch? Forget the larger body of work - we're not into the big picture here in Lakerland. What did he do to improve the team five minutes ago? What about since I started writing this post!?
In the time it's taken me to write this post, Mitch has acquired exactly ZERO impact players. ZERO. Time to stop living in the past. Mitch has had, like, five minutes to build a contender and hasn't done it!
| Quote: |
in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
Exactly. If, in the last three years, Mitch had traded for Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Steve Nash - that would be one thing.
But to keep Bynum and let his knees finally expire while he was on our roster, pass up on Chris Paul and say "no thanks" to Steve Nash - its ridiculous. Time to go, Mitch! You've done NOTHING. |
pleae please stop talking about a trade that did not happen!!!!! is that like the championship we almost won......it didn't happen. |
No because we've never had a championship vetoed before. But I'm sure you knew that already but still decided to compare it anyway. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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That failed trade showed that Mitch had figured out how to manipulate the new CBA before the ink was dry. I have no worries going forward.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LakerCity
Star Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 2496
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerCity wrote: | | thesource wrote: | | GasolBynumKobe wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | GasolBynumKobe wrote: | He's not a great GM and he's not the worst.
Other than the Gasol trade which he admitted he wouldn't have done if Bynum didn't get hurt, he hasn't done anything. Hell, he can't even tank right by trading our only assets(Jordan Hill and Kaman) for 2nd round picks or TPE's. |
OK |
Ok what? Truth hurts I know.
He's in the bottom tier of the GM's. When you can't even build a team that tanks when you need to, that speaks volume. |
You don't build a team to tank.
He traded for CP3, Nash, Howard, Ariza, Shannon Brown, etc.
Mitch Kupchak is a great GM. That is not even debatable. |
traded for Pau, signed MWP, re-signed LO, signed Horace grant in 01 |
That was his first act as GM, trading Rice for Grant and Foster. He started out with a great move. |
its his most underrated move. People forget the post-Shaq Lakers wasn't the first group of rosters he worked with. He's been at it so long he knows the Lakers franchise as well as anybody |
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TheElectronica
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Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 1392
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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New York is making Melo wait two years, if he resigns, to have a shot at putting together a contender. That's because they'd have cap space.
Mitch in one down year has been able to have cap space along with Kobe and a lottery pick, and the potential for another signed star the year after. Depends on how he chooses to go about signing players this off season.
But it isn't like Mitch is completely unproven in this CBA. He values young, cheap talent (Ariza, Brown, Hill, Bazemore) and he rewards max contracts to elite talent. He hasn't committed to a long term mid level player since Blake who I'd argue was a good signing. This CBA requires you to take advantage of young talent and not commit to long term deals unless you have to.
Nash was probably the only contract that can be considered "bad" and that was a risk most people were in favor of. It's unfortunate his body broke down but for a guy his age, health history and playing style, it wasn't unreasonable to expect him to compete. |
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LakerCity
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Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 2496
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| TheElectronica wrote: | New York is making Melo wait two years, if he resigns, to have a shot at putting together a contender. That's because they'd have cap space.
Mitch in one down year has been able to have cap space along with Kobe and a lottery pick, and the potential for another signed star the year after. Depends on how he chooses to go about signing players this off season.
But it isn't like Mitch is completely unproven in this CBA. He values young, cheap talent (Ariza, Brown, Hill, Bazemore) and he rewards max contracts to elite talent. He hasn't committed to a long term mid level player since Blake who I'd argue was a good signing. This CBA requires you to take advantage of young talent and not commit to long term deals unless you have to.
Nash was probably the only contract that can be considered "bad" and that was a risk most people were in favor of. It's unfortunate his body broke down but for a guy his age, health history and playing style, it wasn't unreasonable to expect him to compete. |
Mitch hasn't really made any blatant bad moves when it comes to players. Dwight and Nash situations became disasters but the actual acquisition of those 2 guys were good deals at the time they were bad. Now with coaches, sure MB and MDA are bad. The right coach will be hired next time though. |
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LAKERMIKE2
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Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2080
Location: Jack's Crib
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Right after Phil is gone forever, how convenient!!! Hmmmm???
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Mr. Clutch, Nixon, Eddie, Nick, Magic, Kareem,
Silk, Cooper, AC, Worthy, Horry, Shaq, Kobe.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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It was convenient because his contract expired after this season. Phil was never going to be a part of the Laker FO, that was against Dr. Buss' wishes.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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How can fans actually be complaining about the extension of the Gawd Mitch?
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Voices
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | clutchkobe wrote: | | you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. |
Yeah! What have you done for me lately, Mitch? Forget the larger body of work - we're not into the big picture here in Lakerland. What did he do to improve the team five minutes ago? What about since I started writing this post!?
In the time it's taken me to write this post, Mitch has acquired exactly ZERO impact players. ZERO. Time to stop living in the past. Mitch has had, like, five minutes to build a contender and hasn't done it!
| Quote: |
in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
Exactly. If, in the last three years, Mitch had traded for Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Steve Nash - that would be one thing.
But to keep Bynum and let his knees finally expire while he was on our roster, pass up on Chris Paul and say "no thanks" to Steve Nash - its ridiculous. Time to go, Mitch! You've done NOTHING. |
pleae please stop talking about a trade that did not happen!!!!! is that like the championship we almost won......it didn't happen. |
Yep!
_________________
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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VegasLakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | clutchkobe wrote: | | you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. |
Yeah! What have you done for me lately, Mitch? Forget the larger body of work - we're not into the big picture here in Lakerland. What did he do to improve the team five minutes ago? What about since I started writing this post!?
In the time it's taken me to write this post, Mitch has acquired exactly ZERO impact players. ZERO. Time to stop living in the past. Mitch has had, like, five minutes to build a contender and hasn't done it!
| Quote: |
in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
Exactly. If, in the last three years, Mitch had traded for Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Steve Nash - that would be one thing.
But to keep Bynum and let his knees finally expire while he was on our roster, pass up on Chris Paul and say "no thanks" to Steve Nash - its ridiculous. Time to go, Mitch! You've done NOTHING. |
pleae please stop talking about a trade that did not happen!!!!! is that like the championship we almost won......it didn't happen. |
Right - except it DID happen, otherwise there wouldn't have been anything for David Stern to veto, huh?
Mitch Kupchak didn't veto the trade - Stern did. Ergo, if you're going to judge the actions of Mitch Kupchak (and do so with any integrity whatsoever) you have to acknowledge the trade he completed. |
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Voices
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| VegasLakerFan wrote: | | clutchkobe wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | clutchkobe wrote: | | you guys are talking the past just like the wall of the lakers. what about now. what has mitch kupchek done lately. two really bad teams. they lost Dwight. stop talking about the past. |
Yeah! What have you done for me lately, Mitch? Forget the larger body of work - we're not into the big picture here in Lakerland. What did he do to improve the team five minutes ago? What about since I started writing this post!?
In the time it's taken me to write this post, Mitch has acquired exactly ZERO impact players. ZERO. Time to stop living in the past. Mitch has had, like, five minutes to build a contender and hasn't done it!
| Quote: |
in the last three years, mitch kupchek has not done anything to warrant an extension. Nothing. Maybe he was a really good gm with the old cba but he is not a good gm with the new cba. if im jim buss I want to see something now that says he is good. this is just like the contract to kobe.....its about the past....we have to stop living in the past. |
Exactly. If, in the last three years, Mitch had traded for Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Steve Nash - that would be one thing.
But to keep Bynum and let his knees finally expire while he was on our roster, pass up on Chris Paul and say "no thanks" to Steve Nash - its ridiculous. Time to go, Mitch! You've done NOTHING. |
pleae please stop talking about a trade that did not happen!!!!! is that like the championship we almost won......it didn't happen. |
Right - except it DID happen, otherwise there wouldn't have been anything for David Stern to veto, huh?
Mitch Kupchak didn't veto the trade - Stern did. Ergo, if you're going to judge the actions of Mitch Kupchak (and do so with any integrity whatsoever) you have to acknowledge the trade he completed. |
The commissioner office does not have the power to veto a trade that is within the guidelines of the CBA.
The owner of any team ultimately has the power to not complete/accept any trade that involves his or her team. The NBA owned the Hornets, Stern being the top dog of the NBA did not agree to trade with the Lakers.
There was no trade between the Lakers and the Hornets!
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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