LA Sheriffs Mistakenly Shoot & Kill Wrong Guy

 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: LA Sheriffs Mistakenly Shoot & Kill Wrong Guy

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-producer-killed-20140411,0,272408.story#axzz2yYFd0jzd

SHOOT THE HOSTAGE.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject:

they shoot the two guys with no weapons (one of which is bleeding profusely from his neck) that are running out of the apartment but they use non-lethal force to subdue the guy who is in the act of slashing someone's face open.

makes sense.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject:

In their defense, the guy looked just like Christopher Dorner.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:40 am    Post subject:

Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:31 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?


Of course. You think pigs would ever ever ever get the blame for their stupidity! lol.

Just like those hispanic ladies they shot up when they thought it was dorner.

Did any pig get in trouble? Nope just cost tax payers like us money for their trigger happy ways.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?


Usually. Charging a felony murder with the theory that the victim would not have died but for the suspect's actions and that it was foreseeable that something like this could happen.

Not saying the cops should get off the hook but from a criminal standpoint, it's fair game.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?


Usually. Charging a felony murder with the theory that the victim would not have died but for the suspect's actions and that it was foreseeable that something like this could happen.

Not saying the cops should get off the hook but from a criminal standpoint, it's fair game.


I can totally get with that in most instances. But they shot 2 unarmed people (yes, they shot the victim with a stab wound in his neck along with the guy they thought was the perp). Yet, they were able to subdue the actual perp with the KNIFE IN HIS HAND stabbing the third victim without firing a shot. It just feels like a reach to me in this instance to charge the stabber with murder.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?


Usually. Charging a felony murder with the theory that the victim would not have died but for the suspect's actions and that it was foreseeable that something like this could happen.

Not saying the cops should get off the hook but from a criminal standpoint, it's fair game.


I can totally get with that in most instances. But they shot 2 unarmed people (yes, they shot the victim with a stab wound in his neck along with the guy they thought was the perp). Yet, they were able to subdue the actual perp with the KNIFE IN HIS HAND stabbing the third victim without firing a shot. It just feels like a reach to me in this instance to charge the stabber with murder.


Totally understand. But the question was why did the suspect get charged with it. That's why. Whether the Sheriff's department or any individual cop will be sued/criminally prosecuted, that's another question.

The theory is that by the suspect's criminal actions, he placed the victims in a position where a number of terrible things could have happened to them. He holds responsibility based on his criminal felony actions. That's how it usually works.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject:

There won't be any criminal charges against the cops. There's no point, juries won't convict.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:51 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.


That's essentially it. The law allows for those who were involved in a felony where there's a death directly related to the felony. It's the mechanism that allows accomplices to be charged in the death even though they didn't directly cause the death.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject:

Did they also happen to find sprinkles of crack on the guy they killed?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject:

the only good pig is a dead pig.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.


AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject:

Kobeskillz wrote:
jodeke wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.


AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences.


Well, not necessarily true but I get what you're saying.

I've had the "pleasure" of defending cops in excessive force cases (just doing my firm's bidding...) and they do get named individually in lawsuits (civil). Sometimes the prosecutor will go after a cop, but in this situation, it doesn't seem that a prosecutor will go after the cops.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Kobeskillz wrote:
jodeke wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.


AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences.


The law has nothing to do with cops.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject:

Kobeskillz wrote:
jodeke wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.


AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences.


There are consequences. 2 week vacation, with pay.

They could be out doing their jobs, but they are forced to take vacations while still being paid. A truly terrible consequence. Maybe next time they'll think twice about committing murder.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject:

USA has really seen a shift to increased militarization of the police forces (probably due in large part to the "war on drugs"), the "police" really seem more interested in just keeping order than doing actual police work, so you see a lot of instances where instead of doing their job they just immediately jump to using lethal force.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.


That's essentially it. The law allows for those who were involved in a felony where there's a death directly related to the felony. It's the mechanism that allows accomplices to be charged in the death even though they didn't directly cause the death.


How is the death related to the felony? Because if the guy wasn't committing a felony, the cops wouldn't have intervened and wouldn't have shot the victim? Interesting causality you have over-seas.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:27 am    Post subject:

Again, I get the whole 'in commission of a crime' thing. But my question is, how reckless does a cop get to be?? Can he or she shoot up a whole block and have any casualties fall at the feet of the perp? Had Christopher Dorner been apprehended would the DA have charged HIM with attempted murder on those 2 women the cops shot up because they thought it was him? Is there a line of accountability for the cop? I don't know...it just seems ridiculous to me that 2 men can spill out into hallway, one is bleeding profusely from his neck. Neither has any weapons, and yet the cops managed to shoot both of them killing one. But then they get into the apartment, see the actual perp with a weapon stabbing a guy, and managed to subdue him. I understand that accidents happen, but that was no accident. They shot that innocent unarmed man on purpose. They were reckless, and I don't see how they get to put that off on the perp.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject:

Nobody wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot?

I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder.


That's essentially it. The law allows for those who were involved in a felony where there's a death directly related to the felony. It's the mechanism that allows accomplices to be charged in the death even though they didn't directly cause the death.


How is the death related to the felony? Because if the guy wasn't committing a felony, the cops wouldn't have intervened and wouldn't have shot the victim? Interesting causality you have over-seas.


Essentially. The basic idea is that if you commit a violent felony that results in a death during the commotion of that crime you are held criminally responsible for the death.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
Again, I get the whole 'in commission of a crime' thing. But my question is, how reckless does a cop get to be?? Can he or she shoot up a whole block and have any casualties fall at the feet of the perp?


The law doesn't have anything to do with that. It relates to the perpetratotrs of the crime itself. The law doesn't mean that the police have free reign to kill at all.

Quote:
Had Christopher Dorner been apprehended would the DA have charged HIM with attempted murder on those 2 women the cops shot up because they thought it was him?


No. The law doesn't cover that kind of broad scope. That shooting isn't directly tied to a specific crime.

Quote:
Is there a line of accountability for the cop? I don't know...it just seems ridiculous to me that 2 men can spill out into hallway, one is bleeding profusely from his neck. Neither has any weapons, and yet the cops managed to shoot both of them killing one. But then they get into the apartment, see the actual perp with a weapon stabbing a guy, and managed to subdue him. I understand that accidents happen, but that was no accident. They shot that innocent unarmed man on purpose. They were reckless, and I don't see how they get to put that off on the perp.


They don't. The Felony Murder Law doesn't negate misconduct on the officer's part.

In this particular case, I think your description of the shooting as "reckless" is accurate. I think was a mistake made out of reckless decision making rather than an intentional act of indiscriminant killing.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject:

NickF wrote:
USA has really seen a shift to increased militarization of the police forces (probably due in large part to the "war on drugs"), the "police" really seem more interested in just keeping order than doing actual police work, so you see a lot of instances where instead of doing their job they just immediately jump to using lethal force.


I think that's a pretty exaggerated description of this incident. I don't think this was an instance of police officers just forgoing "doing their job" in order to simply use lethal force for the hell of it. This was a situation where a violent crime was happening and the officers had little knowledge of what was going on and who was who. They were apparently caught by surprise by the sudden emergence of two people believed to have been involved. I think really poor decisions were made by the officers involved. But I don't believe that those decisions were necessarily malicious in intent.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:38 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
NickF wrote:
USA has really seen a shift to increased militarization of the police forces (probably due in large part to the "war on drugs"), the "police" really seem more interested in just keeping order than doing actual police work, so you see a lot of instances where instead of doing their job they just immediately jump to using lethal force.


I think that's a pretty exaggerated description of this incident. I don't think this was an instance of police officers just forgoing "doing their job" in order to simply use lethal force for the hell of it. This was a situation where a violent crime was happening and the officers had little knowledge of what was going on and who was who. They were apparently caught by surprise by the sudden emergence of two people believed to have been involved. I think really poor decisions were made by the officers involved. But I don't believe that those decisions were necessarily malicious in intent.


I honestly think a lot of cops are trigger happy. If I was a cop how could I take a life so easily.

There is another story today in the times about cops killing a guy with a knife. Last month a guy with a bat. Next month a guy with a teddy bear.

I mean don't we have any non lethal methods? Bean bags? Rubber bullets? tazers? Tear gas? Nets? Dogs? I mean really guys with knifes and bats?!!! Can't cops aim low at the legs? People who get shot up in the leg generally crumble to the floor in extreme pain.

I know in some cases you have to shot to kill but man it seems like right now is kill 1st ask questions later.
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