View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19853 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
PLATNUM Star Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 Posts: 7111 Location: L.A.
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
_________________ "Dread it, run from it... destiny arrives all the same." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sickside323 Star Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2008 Posts: 1454 Location: East Los Angeles, CA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
they shoot the two guys with no weapons (one of which is bleeding profusely from his neck) that are running out of the apartment but they use non-lethal force to subdue the guy who is in the act of slashing someone's face open.
makes sense. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ted Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3477
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In their defense, the guy looked just like Christopher Dorner. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kobeskillz Star Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Posts: 1069
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
Of course. You think pigs would ever ever ever get the blame for their stupidity! lol.
Just like those hispanic ladies they shot up when they thought it was dorner.
Did any pig get in trouble? Nope just cost tax payers like us money for their trigger happy ways. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
Usually. Charging a felony murder with the theory that the victim would not have died but for the suspect's actions and that it was foreseeable that something like this could happen.
Not saying the cops should get off the hook but from a criminal standpoint, it's fair game. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
Usually. Charging a felony murder with the theory that the victim would not have died but for the suspect's actions and that it was foreseeable that something like this could happen.
Not saying the cops should get off the hook but from a criminal standpoint, it's fair game. |
I can totally get with that in most instances. But they shot 2 unarmed people (yes, they shot the victim with a stab wound in his neck along with the guy they thought was the perp). Yet, they were able to subdue the actual perp with the KNIFE IN HIS HAND stabbing the third victim without firing a shot. It just feels like a reach to me in this instance to charge the stabber with murder. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
hoopschick29 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
Usually. Charging a felony murder with the theory that the victim would not have died but for the suspect's actions and that it was foreseeable that something like this could happen.
Not saying the cops should get off the hook but from a criminal standpoint, it's fair game. |
I can totally get with that in most instances. But they shot 2 unarmed people (yes, they shot the victim with a stab wound in his neck along with the guy they thought was the perp). Yet, they were able to subdue the actual perp with the KNIFE IN HIS HAND stabbing the third victim without firing a shot. It just feels like a reach to me in this instance to charge the stabber with murder. |
Totally understand. But the question was why did the suspect get charged with it. That's why. Whether the Sheriff's department or any individual cop will be sued/criminally prosecuted, that's another question.
The theory is that by the suspect's criminal actions, he placed the victims in a position where a number of terrible things could have happened to them. He holds responsibility based on his criminal felony actions. That's how it usually works. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
There won't be any criminal charges against the cops. There's no point, juries won't convict. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67316 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
jodeke wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. |
That's essentially it. The law allows for those who were involved in a felony where there's a death directly related to the felony. It's the mechanism that allows accomplices to be charged in the death even though they didn't directly cause the death. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dvdrdiscs Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 6274
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Did they also happen to find sprinkles of crack on the guy they killed? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
rockyp Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 Posts: 334
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
the only good pig is a dead pig. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kobeskillz Star Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Posts: 1069
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
jodeke wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. |
AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kobeskillz wrote: | jodeke wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. |
AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences. |
Well, not necessarily true but I get what you're saying.
I've had the "pleasure" of defending cops in excessive force cases (just doing my firm's bidding...) and they do get named individually in lawsuits (civil). Sometimes the prosecutor will go after a cop, but in this situation, it doesn't seem that a prosecutor will go after the cops. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kobeskillz wrote: | jodeke wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. |
AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences. |
The law has nothing to do with cops. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kobeskillz wrote: | jodeke wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. |
AKA Cops have license to kill without consequences. |
There are consequences. 2 week vacation, with pay.
They could be out doing their jobs, but they are forced to take vacations while still being paid. A truly terrible consequence. Maybe next time they'll think twice about committing murder. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NickF Star Player
Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 1946 Location: Caerbannog
|
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
USA has really seen a shift to increased militarization of the police forces (probably due in large part to the "war on drugs"), the "police" really seem more interested in just keeping order than doing actual police work, so you see a lot of instances where instead of doing their job they just immediately jump to using lethal force. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nobody Star Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5699 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
|
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
DaMuleRules wrote: | jodeke wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. |
That's essentially it. The law allows for those who were involved in a felony where there's a death directly related to the felony. It's the mechanism that allows accomplices to be charged in the death even though they didn't directly cause the death. |
How is the death related to the felony? Because if the guy wasn't committing a felony, the cops wouldn't have intervened and wouldn't have shot the victim? Interesting causality you have over-seas. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Again, I get the whole 'in commission of a crime' thing. But my question is, how reckless does a cop get to be?? Can he or she shoot up a whole block and have any casualties fall at the feet of the perp? Had Christopher Dorner been apprehended would the DA have charged HIM with attempted murder on those 2 women the cops shot up because they thought it was him? Is there a line of accountability for the cop? I don't know...it just seems ridiculous to me that 2 men can spill out into hallway, one is bleeding profusely from his neck. Neither has any weapons, and yet the cops managed to shoot both of them killing one. But then they get into the apartment, see the actual perp with a weapon stabbing a guy, and managed to subdue him. I understand that accidents happen, but that was no accident. They shot that innocent unarmed man on purpose. They were reckless, and I don't see how they get to put that off on the perp. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nobody wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | jodeke wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | Did I read that correctly? Are they actually charging the stabber for the murder of the guy they shot? |
I don't know how the law reads. My understanding is, if in the act of committing a crime someone is killed the person committing the crime is charged with murder. |
That's essentially it. The law allows for those who were involved in a felony where there's a death directly related to the felony. It's the mechanism that allows accomplices to be charged in the death even though they didn't directly cause the death. |
How is the death related to the felony? Because if the guy wasn't committing a felony, the cops wouldn't have intervened and wouldn't have shot the victim? Interesting causality you have over-seas. |
Essentially. The basic idea is that if you commit a violent felony that results in a death during the commotion of that crime you are held criminally responsible for the death. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
hoopschick29 wrote: | Again, I get the whole 'in commission of a crime' thing. But my question is, how reckless does a cop get to be?? Can he or she shoot up a whole block and have any casualties fall at the feet of the perp? |
The law doesn't have anything to do with that. It relates to the perpetratotrs of the crime itself. The law doesn't mean that the police have free reign to kill at all.
Quote: | Had Christopher Dorner been apprehended would the DA have charged HIM with attempted murder on those 2 women the cops shot up because they thought it was him? |
No. The law doesn't cover that kind of broad scope. That shooting isn't directly tied to a specific crime.
Quote: | Is there a line of accountability for the cop? I don't know...it just seems ridiculous to me that 2 men can spill out into hallway, one is bleeding profusely from his neck. Neither has any weapons, and yet the cops managed to shoot both of them killing one. But then they get into the apartment, see the actual perp with a weapon stabbing a guy, and managed to subdue him. I understand that accidents happen, but that was no accident. They shot that innocent unarmed man on purpose. They were reckless, and I don't see how they get to put that off on the perp. |
They don't. The Felony Murder Law doesn't negate misconduct on the officer's part.
In this particular case, I think your description of the shooting as "reckless" is accurate. I think was a mistake made out of reckless decision making rather than an intentional act of indiscriminant killing. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
NickF wrote: | USA has really seen a shift to increased militarization of the police forces (probably due in large part to the "war on drugs"), the "police" really seem more interested in just keeping order than doing actual police work, so you see a lot of instances where instead of doing their job they just immediately jump to using lethal force. |
I think that's a pretty exaggerated description of this incident. I don't think this was an instance of police officers just forgoing "doing their job" in order to simply use lethal force for the hell of it. This was a situation where a violent crime was happening and the officers had little knowledge of what was going on and who was who. They were apparently caught by surprise by the sudden emergence of two people believed to have been involved. I think really poor decisions were made by the officers involved. But I don't believe that those decisions were necessarily malicious in intent. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kobeskillz Star Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Posts: 1069
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
DaMuleRules wrote: | NickF wrote: | USA has really seen a shift to increased militarization of the police forces (probably due in large part to the "war on drugs"), the "police" really seem more interested in just keeping order than doing actual police work, so you see a lot of instances where instead of doing their job they just immediately jump to using lethal force. |
I think that's a pretty exaggerated description of this incident. I don't think this was an instance of police officers just forgoing "doing their job" in order to simply use lethal force for the hell of it. This was a situation where a violent crime was happening and the officers had little knowledge of what was going on and who was who. They were apparently caught by surprise by the sudden emergence of two people believed to have been involved. I think really poor decisions were made by the officers involved. But I don't believe that those decisions were necessarily malicious in intent. |
I honestly think a lot of cops are trigger happy. If I was a cop how could I take a life so easily.
There is another story today in the times about cops killing a guy with a knife. Last month a guy with a bat. Next month a guy with a teddy bear.
I mean don't we have any non lethal methods? Bean bags? Rubber bullets? tazers? Tear gas? Nets? Dogs? I mean really guys with knifes and bats?!!! Can't cops aim low at the legs? People who get shot up in the leg generally crumble to the floor in extreme pain.
I know in some cases you have to shot to kill but man it seems like right now is kill 1st ask questions later. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|