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Dreamshake
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 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | Houston's bench is pretty embarrassing (apart from Asik) compared to the other contenders, at the same time, their starting lineup only costs about $38m currently, so when the time comes (anytime in the next 2 offseasons), there's certainly room, and of course if durant wants to join his little brother, room will be made.
A lot of that is that they all got to start a few years ago, houston haven't had room or time to add even a single impact player since acquiring dwight. |
Morey chose the wrong PG and the wrong guys this summer. He chose Lin instead of giving Dragic the player option. Too early to tell if that was a mistake or not until we see what he does in 2015, but it looks like one so far. But he made the decision before landing Harden, so I'll let that one go.
I don't recall who else he could have picked up this summer at the backup wing spots but going with Garcia/Casspi has been a failure. |
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Dreamshake
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:43 am Post subject: |
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4 years in a row now that Howard has been injured. I said he was on the downside of his prime when he was here, I think we see the end of his prime coming sooner than I had thought. Tough for a big man to battle injuries.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 4 years in a row now that Howard has been injured. I said he was on the downside of his prime when he was here, I think we see the end of his prime coming sooner than I had thought. Tough for a big man to battle injuries. |
He hasn't suffered a serious injury this season though. He could be playing now, but there is no reason to. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: |
Morey chose the wrong PG and the wrong guys this summer. He chose Lin instead of giving Dragic the player option. |
They chose Lin over both Dragic and Lowry, though Lowry was said to be unhappy.
Either one of those guys on this team now? Whoa. You're there.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 4 years in a row now that Howard has been injured. I said he was on the downside of his prime when he was here, I think we see the end of his prime coming sooner than I had thought. Tough for a big man to battle injuries. |
Not really. Dwight had the surgery for his back. He came here and he slowly recovered, but didn't suffer any new injuries. He was playing fine this year. Seems to have tweak his ankle and is sitting out a few games.
I don't see a four-year pattern of injuries. I see one major injury and a recovery, and even during the recovery he played better than most guys in the league. |
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70sdude
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ask Houston. 
Yes, he is worth his $23M, and by handy comparison, he was still worth a helluva lot more to a team's chances this season than the ($30M) overpaid and recently-re-signed Kobe Bryant was worth to the Lakers. Unfortunately, the younger and stronger and continuing-to-produce talent left our club. It sucks, but it's fact. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: |
Morey chose the wrong PG and the wrong guys this summer. He chose Lin instead of giving Dragic the player option. |
They chose Lin over both Dragic and Lowry, though Lowry was said to be unhappy.
Either one of those guys on this team now? Whoa. You're there. |
Well, to be fair, they only chose Lin over Dragic. When they initially had all 3 Lin was the one they let go. They traded Lowry for the lotto pick included in the Harden trade (became Adams for OKC). No issue there.
Looks like a mistake so far but can't tell until we see what they do with the capspace from not giving Dragic a 4th year and if Dragic opts out and gets paid a ton more. |
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I think you can sense the patience in Howard and Harden and the organization if they dont win it all this year. They are talking about summer plans, how the other teams have played together and gotten to mesh for far longer (true). They have time and youth and talent with suppporting players even, they have time. The one thing I would be concerned with for them is their mental and emotional intelligence, but playoffs will prove or disprove that in these next 2-3 years anyway. And playoffs improve those things especially for teams that go farther than expected - like Indy who no one thought about this point last year.
Too bad. I want them to go down in 1st round along with the Clippers and OKC. Actually Spurs too. Actually fail em all except Golden State and Memphis. And anyone but heat in the East. I probably dont get my wishes. Is there a playoff thread yet? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Houston, thanks to Harden's relatively small "max" contract, Parson's $1m (or less) contract, and Dwight (big max contract) are in an excellent place to improve this offseason and the next up to Durant in 2016.
Hard to argue against a current core of Harden, Dwight, Parsons at under $40m for this season and the next. Of course, Parsons salary is what makes this possible, but even a Harden/Dwight core, I'd take that.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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One thing that's clear, Houston is a borderline lower playoff seed without him. They are .500-.600 ball at best without Dwight and Asik.
Dwight is the reason that team moved from 8th to 4th and you can go around the league and you won't find many players who can impact a team like that. |
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Trulakerfan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: Need dwight |
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| We need to get Dwight, and trade Kobe! He's injured and he's not an helpful resource! |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Looking back at Dwight Howard, is he still worth a max salary? |
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| ribeye wrote: | Not to have a sour grapes thread, as I definitely wanted Howard and believed he was worthy of a max salary before, on large part due to his 08-11 seasons. Today I don't think so. There is no doubt he would still get a max salary as he is close enough for many teams, but as I watch him and as I see his team play, with him and without, (while remembering last year as well) I don't think he's quite there.
Maybe it is because he has played on three different teams during his last three years and it will take him time to mesh with Houston. Or maybe, he is just not what he once was, and will never get there. |
rib, let me ask you a question. when people were talking about extending him if he stayed. do you remember when i was one of a very small group that stated "DO NOT GIVE DWIGHT THE MAX" because i did not believe him to be a Max player. not even in his orlando days.
when they went to the finals vs the lakers. it wasnt because of dwight's offense. it was because of his great defense/rebounding. offensively it was because of HEDO T. There's a reason why shaq use to say dwight needs to average a ridiculous amt of points. he was telling him the secret to being a TRUE MAX SUPERSTAR that no one can deny. drop 25 on people's heads, with the 12 rebs per, with the 2+ blocks per, with the high fg%. and everyone else will shut up. you hover around 18 to 21. you're not a franchise big. you're the best big in a watered down league that has a bad knee drew in it.
dont pay a guy max cause he's the best at his position and that position is very watery right now.
its like saying spreewell was the best SG in the nba. in a year where SG's were weak. sure spree was good in his hay day but he wasnt no mike or kobe.
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Need dwight |
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| Trulakerfan wrote: | | We need to get Dwight, and trade Kobe! He's injured and he's not an helpful resource! |
houston fan you setup and account to say that^^lol.
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | One thing that's clear, Houston is a borderline lower playoff seed without him. They are .500-.600 ball at best without Dwight and Asik.
Dwight is the reason that team moved from 8th to 4th and you can go around the league and you won't find many players who can impact a team like that. |
you take james harden off of that team. and they wont make the playoffs.
replace james harden with jamal crawf and maybe they're 8th. MAYYYYBEE.
so sorry i aint given dwight that much credit. he deserves some but not that much.
put it this way. put a young tyson chanlder in dwights place. i bet you houston would be in the exact same spot or at worse 1 seed lower.
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LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Looking back at Dwight Howard, is he still worth a max salary? |
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| postandpivot wrote: | rib, let me ask you a question. when people were talking about extending him if he stayed. do you remember when i was one of a very small group that stated "DO NOT GIVE DWIGHT THE MAX" because i did not believe him to be a Max player. not even in his orlando days.
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I do remember the various people herein with such a sentiment, though I can't state that I recall specifically your position. That would require a few more brain cells. Regardless, it doesn't matter as you re-state it here, and whatever your positions are, you are true to them.
I don't have anything to add except iterate that we need to give him another year to see, and, though I mostly hated it at the time, losing him might not be such a bad deal.
Now, what I was screaming for, in case you didn't hear it all the way in SoCal, was a trade across the locker room. There was talk or Griffin and even Griffin and Bledsoe, until he was traded.
I would have "accepted" just Griffin.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Looking back at Dwight Howard, is he still worth a max salary? |
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| ribeye wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | rib, let me ask you a question. when people were talking about extending him if he stayed. do you remember when i was one of a very small group that stated "DO NOT GIVE DWIGHT THE MAX" because i did not believe him to be a Max player. not even in his orlando days.
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I do remember the various people herein with such a sentiment, though I can't state that I recall specifically your position. That would require a few more brain cells. Regardless, it doesn't matter as you re-state it here, and whatever your positions are, you are true to them.
I don't have anything to add except iterate that we need to give him another year to see, and, though I mostly hated it at the time, losing him might not be such a bad deal.
Now, what I was screaming for, in case you didn't hear it all the way in SoCal, was a trade across the locker room. There was talk or Griffin and even Griffin and Bledsoe, until he was traded.
I would have "accepted" just Griffin. |
I thought that was the deal as well but others have corrected me that it was Deandre and Bledsoe. That being said, having two guys in hand, whether or not they are franchise pieces or not, would have been much better than nothing as both of them are being paid relatively low for their production. Worse things worse, they could have been assets to trade for picks/etc. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Need dwight |
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| Trulakerfan wrote: | | We need to get Dwight, and trade Kobe! He's injured and he's not an helpful resource! |
He didn't want to stay in LA, no need to "trade" for him. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Looking back at Dwight Howard, is he still worth a max salary? |
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| ribeye wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | rib, let me ask you a question. when people were talking about extending him if he stayed. do you remember when i was one of a very small group that stated "DO NOT GIVE DWIGHT THE MAX" because i did not believe him to be a Max player. not even in his orlando days.
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I do remember the various people herein with such a sentiment, though I can't state that I recall specifically your position. That would require a few more brain cells. Regardless, it doesn't matter as you re-state it here, and whatever your positions are, you are true to them.
I don't have anything to add except iterate that we need to give him another year to see, and, though I mostly hated it at the time, losing him might not be such a bad deal.
Now, what I was screaming for, in case you didn't hear it all the way in SoCal, was a trade across the locker room. There was talk or Griffin and even Griffin and Bledsoe, until he was traded.
I would have "accepted" just Griffin. |
I remember reading comments from Clipper fans about those trade talks and posting them here. Clipper fans hated Dwight and hated the idea of trading Griffin for Dwight. The trade was hated so much by them that it was surprising to me. I don't think a single Clipper fan wanted Dwight. It also surprised me to see how much they liked Griffin, because last year I still didn't think he was that good. The trade idea was so hated by the Clipper fans that I doubt they would have done it. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
you take james harden off of that team. and they wont make the playoffs. |
I was interested if this is true. My personal opinion is that Howard is a more valuable player on both ends that James, even if James Harden is the better scorer on O.
I checked the box scores for game logs, pnp.
6-2 without Harden.
Wins against - @ Dallas, Spurs, @ Memphis
Without Howard they are 6-5 on the season. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Without Howard they are 6-5 on the season. |
Now check how many of those were also without Beverly.
OK. I won't be lazy. The first three they win, so they are 3-0 without just Howard. They are 3-5 without both. Small sample size but a better picture.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Looking back at Dwight Howard, is he still worth a max salary? |
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| jonnybravo wrote: |
I thought that was the deal as well but others have corrected me that it was Deandre and Bledsoe. That being said, having two guys in hand, whether or not they are franchise pieces or not, would have been much better than nothing as both of them are being paid relatively low for their production. Worse things worse, they could have been assets to trade for picks/etc. |
Yep. Kinda funny (hmmm, not the ha ha) (or in ironic, not the jocular, as is more common), but Jordan for Howard (alone) might not have been such a bad deal. But this is not the first time a team was willing to give up a young, yet to be proven player, only to be turned down by the team with the rights to Howard. Where I'm going with this is back to days the New Jersey Nets were trying desperately to get Howard. They offered Lopez and it seems every combination of players and picks, but Orlando turned them down.
Today, Brook Lopez, is equal to Howard, some say better. The Nets were lucky. It could be the Clipps were as well.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Looking back at Dwight Howard, is he still worth a max salary? |
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| ribeye wrote: |
Today, Brook Lopez, is equal to Howard, some say better. . |
Oh, cmon. Lopez is a good scorer. However the guy only gets 6 rebounds per game; he's an awful defender (no surprised the Nets defense improved dramatically when he went down), and he's missed two of the last three seasons with injuries to his right foot. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Looking back at Dwight Howard, is he still worth a max salary? |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Today, Brook Lopez, is equal to Howard, some say better. The Nets were lucky. It could be the Clipps were as well. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:46 am Post subject: |
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yeah... as if he had any choice. LOL
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