Wiggins is Tmac
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
The guy was passive. Really.

Bryant took a step back surrounded by teammates, but even then, he stood out. Why does Embiid stand out all season and not Wiggins? Embiid doesn't hold back.
its the coach. its a system. a smart coach says we have a legit big that can score on offense. USE HIM and use him often. but with that said, embiid is supposedly aggressive...more so then wiggins? you guys are joking right

how many pts does embiid average with all his footwork and skill? less then 12ppg.

any bigman with serious footwork, athleticism, skill, + aggression. would be putting up 15ppg+ .

you say no...
i say yes he would. Lets get a look at freshman Greg oden before the knees and the nba. 15ppg.
you may say but but he took more shots. and you would be right. thats aggression. sure the coach has a system. but forget your system if i'm better then my peers at my position. i would tell my teammates get on my back and ride me. i'll set up everyone else. you can run the coaches plays but at the end of the day i'm a giant in the paint with skill. no one can stop me from scoring at a high clip.

which is why a perimeter player over chucking could get benched and yelled at. since he shoots so many shots from a further distance odds are his fg% will not be to hot. unless you're a bull like lebron.

embiid is somewhat aggressive, but he plays within the system. same with wiggins. same with perry ellis. this is a good thing. these guys are still showcasing their talents while playing within a system. that means if these guys get thrown on any nba team. they wont fade due to a system.

now its also a picture of this era of young guys growing up. they are different then my gen or even previous gens. our aggression was on another level. i mean look at how much we had to get on LBJ to be more aggressive. the guy has all that ability and he has to be pushed by all the haters to be more aggressive.

same with durant. its this era of young guys. its different for them.

So we have to be mindful of that. which is why i dont think we will ever get another crazed kobe/jordan like player in the nba. i'm not talking stats. i'm talking mentality + skill + work ethic. you may have skill+ the work ethic. but not that "i'll kill em all by myself if i have to" mentality.

i just dont see it in these kids nowadays. do you mike?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:09 pm    Post subject:

I like the Pippen on defense comparisons. I don't know if he'll ever be the facilitator TMac was in his prime (or even the scorer) but the tools are there. Hope he pans out regardless of what team he plays for (hopefully he plays for us )
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:46 pm    Post subject:

I think Wiggins has crazy defensive potential, but Pippen was probably the best all-purpose perimeter defender in NBA history. All this talk of Wiggins being a guaranteed Pippen on defense are absurd IMHO. Perhaps the potential is there, but more than likely, he'll have D like a prime Tayshaun Prince (though with more bulk), which will be very good.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:54 am    Post subject:

Pipped came into the league with that amazing defense?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:04 am    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
I think Wiggins has crazy defensive potential, but Pippen was probably the best all-purpose perimeter defender in NBA history. All this talk of Wiggins being a guaranteed Pippen on defense are absurd IMHO. Perhaps the potential is there, but more than likely, he'll have D like a prime Tayshaun Prince (though with more bulk), which will be very good.


Coop > Pip
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:06 am    Post subject:

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i just dont see it in these kids nowadays. do you mike?


Marcus Smart. Difference is he's aware of his talent level.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject:

Ford and Pelton of ESPN compare Wiggins to Paul George and Luol Deng. The Paul George analogy would have sounded a lot more favorable around December, but that still sounds about right to me. As today's game showed, he isn't a consistent offensive juggernaut. He can have the occasional game like West Virginia, but guys like George and Deng are capable of big games, too.

I've never hidden my feelings about the NCAA and college basketball, but Wiggins strikes me as a kid who could really benefit from another year of college. He'll probably wind up somewhere like Milwaukee or Philadelphia, being expected to become the face of the franchise. Even worse for him, he could wind up here. He would be compared to Kobe, and that's not a comparison that is going to turn out well.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:20 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Ford and Pelton of ESPN compare Wiggins to Paul George and Luol Deng. The Paul George analogy would have sounded a lot more favorable around December, but that still sounds about right to me. As today's game showed, he isn't a consistent offensive juggernaut. He can have the occasional game like West Virginia, but guys like George and Deng are capable of big games, too.

I've never hidden my feelings about the NCAA and college basketball, but Wiggins strikes me as a kid who could really benefit from another year of college. He'll probably wind up somewhere like Milwaukee or Philadelphia, being expected to become the face of the franchise. Even worse for him, he could wind up here. He would be compared to Kobe, and that's not a comparison that is going to turn out well.
whats another year of college going to do for him? nothing.

at least not for his game.

he's not going to be tasked with the role of a facilitator like say grant hill when he was at duke once hurley left. so the only change will be a bit more strength. they have better weight programs in the pros. more consistent jumper(better training in the pros). more plays ran for him. sure now that will help, one less embiid to deal with. then he can go off all season long. but we already know he can do that at this level. can he do that at the next level on a consistent basis? we dont know. and the only way we will find out is if he comes to the next level. there are times where guys should stay in school because their game just isnt mature enough. wiggins game is mature enough for this era of the nba. he will be protected by soft rules along the perimeter.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Ford and Pelton of ESPN compare Wiggins to Paul George and Luol Deng. The Paul George analogy would have sounded a lot more favorable around December, but that still sounds about right to me. As today's game showed, he isn't a consistent offensive juggernaut. He can have the occasional game like West Virginia, but guys like George and Deng are capable of big games, too.

I've never hidden my feelings about the NCAA and college basketball, but Wiggins strikes me as a kid who could really benefit from another year of college. He'll probably wind up somewhere like Milwaukee or Philadelphia, being expected to become the face of the franchise. Even worse for him, he could wind up here. He would be compared to Kobe, and that's not a comparison that is going to turn out well.

Paul George's skills weren't up to par and was forcing issues in college. You don't see that with Wiggins. The biggest issue is his inherit selflessness on the offensive end and an offensive system that doesn't utilize him in a pro-style offense or use him as a playmaker. That along with zone defenses limit his ability to drive the ball consistently and be rewarded.

NBA has a more free flowing offense because of no zone defenses so he can use his athleticism to get to the rim more. I don't think another year of playing for Self is going to help his offensive game grow any more, and I don't think he lacks basketball IQ the way a lot of players do when they need to stay another year.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:11 pm    Post subject:

Hmm, I doubt that he would end up like Tmac since he lacks both his playmaking and scoring ability. If he could develop into a Tmac, that would be phenomenal. Mcgrady was incredibly good in his prime and could do it all, had he not been injured, he could have ended up as one of the greats.

I think the Pippen and George comparisons are on point though. From what I recall, George was incredibly raw but had the tools. Wiggins reminds me of George. Athletic, good size, and has a nice jumper. I do wish he would take over, but he doesn't really have any handles so I am not sure if he could create as easily as we all hope he could. His defense looks really good in college but I do think that could be because is he simply bigger and faster than everyone else.

With all that said, potential to be great is there but I have reservations about him becoming even close to Tmac.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject:

Sacreligious wrote:
Hmm, I doubt that he would end up like Tmac since he lacks both his playmaking and scoring ability. If he could develop into a Tmac, that would be phenomenal. Mcgrady was incredibly good in his prime and could do it all, had he not been injured, he could have ended up as one of the greats.

I think the Pippen and George comparisons are on point though. From what I recall, George was incredibly raw but had the tools. Wiggins reminds me of George. Athletic, good size, and has a nice jumper. I do wish he would take over, but he doesn't really have any handles so I am not sure if he could create as easily as we all hope he could. His defense looks really good in college but I do think that could be because is he simply bigger and faster than everyone else.

With all that said, potential to be great is there but I have reservations about him becoming even close to Tmac.
again when i make a comparison like this. i'm talking about wiggins has the tools to become prime tmac and actually shows some similarities to early tmac.

when you guys speak on these comparisons please stop trying to compare the young kid thats raw to the prime stud player and say "i dont see it" of course you dont see IT. its not there yet because the kid has to grow up and have time to become the next one.

again toronto Tmac was all dunks and nothing more. he wasnt a playmaker. he wasnt shooting a ton of jumpers. the guy wasnt even off the dribble a ton. most of it was off a pass. a lot of it was backdoor lobs.

he went to the magic and got on a team where he was the primary weapon and he developed his game and went for broke.

So it took time. it will take wiggins the same time to turn into tmac.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
I think Wiggins has crazy defensive potential, but Pippen was probably the best all-purpose perimeter defender in NBA history. All this talk of Wiggins being a guaranteed Pippen on defense are absurd IMHO. Perhaps the potential is there, but more than likely, he'll have D like a prime Tayshaun Prince (though with more bulk), which will be very good.
prime Tprince defense with more bulk AND more athleticism = SCOTTIE PIPPEN.

pippen was super long, very strong for his position, and very athletic.

wiggins is taller then scottie. PFs in the nba are much softer then they were back in pips day. this means wiggins can slide to PF at times and play decent defense there as well. pip couldnt slow down real pf's from his era. they were too thick and too strong.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I've never hidden my feelings about the NCAA and college basketball, but Wiggins strikes me as a kid who could really benefit from another year of college. He'll probably wind up somewhere like Milwaukee or Philadelphia, being expected to become the face of the franchise. Even worse for him, he could wind up here. He would be compared to Kobe, and that's not a comparison that is going to turn out well.


whats another year of college going to do for him? nothing.

at least not for his game.


Right. It's not his game that I'm concerned about. I don't think that he's ready to be the face of a bad franchise. But it's an academic point now.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I've never hidden my feelings about the NCAA and college basketball, but Wiggins strikes me as a kid who could really benefit from another year of college. He'll probably wind up somewhere like Milwaukee or Philadelphia, being expected to become the face of the franchise. Even worse for him, he could wind up here. He would be compared to Kobe, and that's not a comparison that is going to turn out well.


whats another year of college going to do for him? nothing.

at least not for his game.


Right. It's not his game that I'm concerned about. I don't think that he's ready to be the face of a bad franchise. But it's an academic point now.
so you think after 2 seasons he would be mentally ready to be the face of ...... the bucks? i say no. now if he was a senior i would agree. but he wont stay that long. so it is...what it is.

look... he comes out now. messes around and ends up on the lakers. we wont force him into some "save us, help us sell tickets" mode. because we are methodically building a dynasty team.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:14 am    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
so you think after 2 seasons he would be mentally ready to be the face of ...... the bucks? i say no. now if he was a senior i would agree. but he wont stay that long. so it is...what it is.


I would say yes. Heck, no one is ever going to be truly ready to take on the burden of being the face of the freaking Milwaukee Bucks. But those years around 19 and 20 are full of changes for everyone. I think an extra year of learning about the world and how to deal with the media pressure would help a lot.

But it's an academic point. I just hope these kids catch a break in the draft. I know it's bad for us, but the worst case scenario for one of these kids would be to get drafted by the Lakers. Coming into Hollywood at age 19 as the savior of the franchise, and then having to deal with Kobe at this point in his life? Oh, man.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
so you think after 2 seasons he would be mentally ready to be the face of ...... the bucks? i say no. now if he was a senior i would agree. but he wont stay that long. so it is...what it is.


I would say yes. Heck, no one is ever going to be truly ready to take on the burden of being the face of the freaking Milwaukee Bucks. But those years around 19 and 20 are full of changes for everyone. I think an extra year of learning about the world and how to deal with the media pressure would help a lot.

But it's an academic point. I just hope these kids catch a break in the draft. I know it's bad for us, but the worst case scenario for one of these kids would be to get drafted by the Lakers. Coming into Hollywood at age 19 as the savior of the franchise, and then having to deal with Kobe at this point in his life? Oh, man.
again thats the beauty of being drafted by the lakers. not one time did we draft a kid and say "hey you. you have to lead us to the promise land..TODAY."

young kobe sat behind eddie jones.

bynum sat behind gasol.

magic was 20 and he still had norm to lean on.

it wont be like the next star going to the cavs expected to be the "the next lebron"

now if a guy like Pgeorge came to the lakers. there would be "next kobe" expectations. since he's seasoned. but not for some rook.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject:

I'd pick Jabari over Wiggins. I think Parker's more polished and NBA ready than Wiggins. Not saying that Andrew doesn't have the potential especially with that wingspan. What I'm saying is that he reminds me of a Rudy Gay than a guy like Kevin Durant.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject:

junosiojo wrote:
I'd pick Jabari over Wiggins. I think Parker's more polished and NBA ready than Wiggins. Not saying that Andrew doesn't have the potential especially with that wingspan. What I'm saying is that he reminds me of a Rudy Gay than a guy like Kevin Durant.
he cant remind you of rudy gay, especially not at his age. he can shoot to well already. which it took some time for rudy to develop his jumper. rudy was 100% all dunks before he finally developed a decent jumpshot. wiggins shoots a lot of jumpers, which some dont like. this is why i say Tmac. prime tmac would dunk on you, but he would kill you with a 3 ball or one dribble pull up from the mid range or even the post up turn around. he was virtually unstoppable. but it took tmac years to get to that point. people dont think about that when i made the comparison. they just remember super tmac(pre back, post raptors). tmac in his early years was nothing but a lob catcher. thats all and thats it. he didnt showcase his handles, he didnt showcase his passing ability until he was in a magic uniform a few years later. basically ... after he grew up. wiggins is already slightly ahead of that curve because he already shows the jumper and he already shows some ball handling. i dont see a lot of court vision from wiggins at the moment. so perhaps thats a dormant trait similar to tmac and it may take a few years for that to come out.

what i do like about wiggins about mac is that from day one wiggins has shown ELITE level defense. he does it all. great team defender, great man defender. will that be the case at the next level? under the right coach preaching defense... YES it will. under the wrong coach?maybe not.

so in reality, you would pick parker aka paul pierce. because he's a safer bet. what you see is probably what you're going to get. and thats darn sure a good player. or even a slightly great player. if you look at PP's career. he was a great player. he just played on a some what sorry team with the celtics.
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