OFFICIAL KOBE BRYANT CONTRACT DISCUSSION: P&M and Second Guessing Here --->
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Rivershow
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject:

double
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:16 am    Post subject:

IGSaint wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
na cuh! lol stop


Nice argument. Just say "you're right" next time.


jesus christ, stop trolling


You're still not proving anything I said was wrong. I am here to debate a topic not reply with one-liners like you. You need to stop acting like an idiot and stop posting.


youre not proving anything you said was right tho .. do you get that
i hope youre right but most people think its unlikely..
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Bryant, who’s pouring his keen powers of observation, not to mention his inclination toward obsession, into the draft, reportedly wondered why the Lakers had to win their last two games, leaving them 27-55 with the No. 6 pick going into the lottery, rather than 26-56 with a coin flip with Utah for No. 5.


This is a valid reason to be frustrated lol
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:19 am    Post subject:

IGSaint wrote:
zeroakuma wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Poseidon44 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
divncom wrote:
Denial is a powerful state of mind.

I still recall the interview with JVG where Kobe said, with absolute confidence, that he could/would [still] be the best player on a championship team (even at his age).

If he really does believe that, then he must feel like the only thing between himself and a title are a solid 2 option and role players. After all, that's always been the formula hasn't it?

Kobe can show all the frustration he wants, but I think on some level he's frustrated because he knows he can't do what he once could.

Edit: It's also cool to see that despite that delusional mindset, Kobe was part of team tank. Is it possible he thought/thinks that a duo of himself and a high lottery pick could contend?


I'm guessing Kobe is thinking that pick should be used to get him help now. His patience for youth development has changed little since the days of "Ship his ass out!" If anything, it's only gotten shorter.


I agree but a 36 year old, broken-down Kobe is in no position to be making demands. This is not 2006 anymore. Dude should just be happy that he's getting paid more than anyone in the league and not worry about what the FO does.


Since when are superstar franchise players not in the position to be making demands? That's always how it went and it isn't likely to change very soon...


He's not a superstar player anymore...pfft. He can still produce, but I don't think it's fair to call him a Superstar. Superstars change and dominate the game. Kobe can't do that anymore with his age and injuries.



Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.




IGSaint............
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:16 am    Post subject:

Read the article. Read the first page of this thread, then...realizing the direction this was all headed...promptly headed to the last page to say, hmmmph.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:39 am    Post subject:

IGSaint wrote:
Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.


Based on common sense, I would imagine. While I wouldn't want to count Kobe out when he is motivated to prove the doubters wrong, the reality is that at his age, with having a year and a half away from the game aside from a handful of games, the ods are very much against him returning to superstar form. I'm optimistic and would be happy if he can return and be a legitimate All-Star still. His injuries combined with is age are a steep hill to climb.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:50 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.


Based on common sense, I would imagine. While I wouldn't want to count Kobe out when he is motivated to prove the doubters wrong, the reality is that at his age, with having a year and a half away from the game aside from a handful of games, the ods are very much against him returning to superstar form. I'm optimistic and would be happy if he can return and be a legitimate All-Star still. His injuries combined with is age are a steep hill to climb.


Tim Duncan is older than kobe and he is still playing at an elite level because he has fundamentals just like kobe has fundamentals. All the people who doubt kobe keep forgetting that kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. Kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and his work in the post will have him continue to produce. I am failing to see where it is unlikely that kobe can return to a 25/5/5 type of season.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:25 am    Post subject:

FreakofNature wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
zeroakuma wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Poseidon44 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
divncom wrote:
Denial is a powerful state of mind.

I still recall the interview with JVG where Kobe said, with absolute confidence, that he could/would [still] be the best player on a championship team (even at his age).

If he really does believe that, then he must feel like the only thing between himself and a title are a solid 2 option and role players. After all, that's always been the formula hasn't it?

Kobe can show all the frustration he wants, but I think on some level he's frustrated because he knows he can't do what he once could.

Edit: It's also cool to see that despite that delusional mindset, Kobe was part of team tank. Is it possible he thought/thinks that a duo of himself and a high lottery pick could contend?


I'm guessing Kobe is thinking that pick should be used to get him help now. His patience for youth development has changed little since the days of "Ship his ass out!" If anything, it's only gotten shorter.


I agree but a 36 year old, broken-down Kobe is in no position to be making demands. This is not 2006 anymore. Dude should just be happy that he's getting paid more than anyone in the league and not worry about what the FO does.


Since when are superstar franchise players not in the position to be making demands? That's always how it went and it isn't likely to change very soon...


He's not a superstar player anymore...pfft. He can still produce, but I don't think it's fair to call him a Superstar. Superstars change and dominate the game. Kobe can't do that anymore with his age and injuries.



Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.




IGSaint............


So your baseline is 2012-13, when he was relatively healthy?

Or should it be 2013-14, when he showed his mortality as a basketball player?

It's incredible that people will still assume Kobe's baseline is 2012-13. He's starting from a much lower level and has a lot of work just to get back to basketball shape, let alone playing like the HOF-Kobe that we are accustomed to.
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Rivershow
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
FreakofNature wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
zeroakuma wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Poseidon44 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
divncom wrote:
Denial is a powerful state of mind.

I still recall the interview with JVG where Kobe said, with absolute confidence, that he could/would [still] be the best player on a championship team (even at his age).

If he really does believe that, then he must feel like the only thing between himself and a title are a solid 2 option and role players. After all, that's always been the formula hasn't it?

Kobe can show all the frustration he wants, but I think on some level he's frustrated because he knows he can't do what he once could.

Edit: It's also cool to see that despite that delusional mindset, Kobe was part of team tank. Is it possible he thought/thinks that a duo of himself and a high lottery pick could contend?


I'm guessing Kobe is thinking that pick should be used to get him help now. His patience for youth development has changed little since the days of "Ship his ass out!" If anything, it's only gotten shorter.


I agree but a 36 year old, broken-down Kobe is in no position to be making demands. This is not 2006 anymore. Dude should just be happy that he's getting paid more than anyone in the league and not worry about what the FO does.


Since when are superstar franchise players not in the position to be making demands? That's always how it went and it isn't likely to change very soon...


He's not a superstar player anymore...pfft. He can still produce, but I don't think it's fair to call him a Superstar. Superstars change and dominate the game. Kobe can't do that anymore with his age and injuries.



Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.




IGSaint............


So your baseline is 2012-13, when he was relatively healthy?

Or should it be 2013-14, when he showed his mortality as a basketball player?

It's incredible that people will still assume Kobe's baseline is 2012-13. He's starting from a much lower level and has a lot of work just to get back to basketball shape, let alone playing like the HOF-Kobe that we are accustomed to.


The thing is that kobe was playing himself into shape during that short stint during the regular season and he was starting to regain his form around game 4 or 5 with his ppg topping at 20-21. Coming into next season he will have a 6 month training period which he is already starting plus training camp to actually work with teammates. It's hardly a stretch to say that kobe will return back to form and as I said many times kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. He is not a derrick rose where if he is not the fastest dude on the court then he is not a superstar. Kobe is one of the most fundamentally sound nba players ever.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:02 am    Post subject:

^ But why is 2012-13 the baseline? Shouldn't we start with the assumption he is recovering (from 2 injuries now) rather than compare him when he was healthy in 2012-13?

He can regain playing form all he wants, but it's whether the body will hold up. He's going to have to put his body through hell to get over the injuries and then he's putting through another hell trying to play a full NBA season plus possible playoffs.

Even if he has a "low-athletic" game, the question is not whether the skills will return (he will always be one of the most skilled players ever IMO) but rather durability and health.

My projections, taking into account rest time, injuries, age, mileage, etc., and a "rosy" one, is 65 games, 20/5/5. If he can do that next year, that would be short of amazing.

Nash, Larry Bird also have amazing non-athletic skills. But when the body breaks down, even the most talented and skilled players will struggle.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject:

The Joker wrote:
All systems a go. Day 1 of a long journey.

Kobe Bryant Begins Intense Six-Month Training Program

Quote:
Kobe Bryant began an intense six-month training program with an early-morning workout Monday, sources with knowledge of the situation said.

As he returns from a broken bone in his left lateral tibial plateau, Bryant has been cleared for running and shooting.

Bryant was confident about pushing harder after receiving positive feedback during a consultation last week with the doctors in Germany who previously performed the platelet-rich plasma treatment known as Orthokine on his knees.

Bryant visited the doctors while he was in Europe on a short trip with his family last week, sources said.

Via Ramona Shelburne/ESPN

A mile-long journey starts with a little single step!
Good luck, Mamba!
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:20 am    Post subject:

moonriver24 wrote:
The Joker wrote:
All systems a go. Day 1 of a long journey.

Kobe Bryant Begins Intense Six-Month Training Program

Quote:
Kobe Bryant began an intense six-month training program with an early-morning workout Monday, sources with knowledge of the situation said.

As he returns from a broken bone in his left lateral tibial plateau, Bryant has been cleared for running and shooting.

Bryant was confident about pushing harder after receiving positive feedback during a consultation last week with the doctors in Germany who previously performed the platelet-rich plasma treatment known as Orthokine on his knees.

Bryant visited the doctors while he was in Europe on a short trip with his family last week, sources said.

Via Ramona Shelburne/ESPN

A mile-long journey starts with a little single step!
Good luck, Mamba!



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:08 am    Post subject:

I can't quit you Kobe!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject:

Kobe better keeps his mouth shut, the last thing he wants is front office comes out saying that extension was mostly for Kobe's past contribution to the team, has nothing to do going forward.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject:

IGSaint wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.


Based on common sense, I would imagine. While I wouldn't want to count Kobe out when he is motivated to prove the doubters wrong, the reality is that at his age, with having a year and a half away from the game aside from a handful of games, the ods are very much against him returning to superstar form. I'm optimistic and would be happy if he can return and be a legitimate All-Star still. His injuries combined with is age are a steep hill to climb.


Tim Duncan is older than kobe and he is still playing at an elite level because he has fundamentals just like kobe has fundamentals. All the people who doubt kobe keep forgetting that kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. Kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and his work in the post will have him continue to produce. I am failing to see where it is unlikely that kobe can return to a 25/5/5 type of season.


duncan's fundamentals and selflessness have allowed him and his team to play at a high level in a reduced role. kobe's stated he has no interest in that. i don't see any similarity.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject:

Bryant is in decline but will still be the best overall player on the roster.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject:

Chick-N-Stew wrote:
Bryant is in decline but will still be the best overall player on the roster.


of a lousy roster.

Michael Jordan won MVP his final season with the Bulls and he still didn't have enough clout to persuade management to his side.

That Pau thinks he can lay down terms is just hilarious.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.


Based on common sense, I would imagine. While I wouldn't want to count Kobe out when he is motivated to prove the doubters wrong, the reality is that at his age, with having a year and a half away from the game aside from a handful of games, the ods are very much against him returning to superstar form. I'm optimistic and would be happy if he can return and be a legitimate All-Star still. His injuries combined with is age are a steep hill to climb.


Tim Duncan is older than kobe and he is still playing at an elite level because he has fundamentals just like kobe has fundamentals. All the people who doubt kobe keep forgetting that kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. Kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and his work in the post will have him continue to produce. I am failing to see where it is unlikely that kobe can return to a 25/5/5 type of season.


duncan's fundamentals and selflessness have allowed him and his team to play at a high level in a reduced role. kobe's stated he has no interest in that. i don't see any similarity.


exactly, huge HUGE difference there. Duncan willing to take paycut to make sure Spurs not only able to keep their big 3 but also able to fill up roster with young talents. Duncan's more than happy for Parker, Ginobilli or even Leonard to be in the spotlight if that's what takes for them to win, can't say the same for Kobe.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.


Based on common sense, I would imagine. While I wouldn't want to count Kobe out when he is motivated to prove the doubters wrong, the reality is that at his age, with having a year and a half away from the game aside from a handful of games, the ods are very much against him returning to superstar form. I'm optimistic and would be happy if he can return and be a legitimate All-Star still. His injuries combined with is age are a steep hill to climb.


Tim Duncan is older than kobe and he is still playing at an elite level because he has fundamentals just like kobe has fundamentals. All the people who doubt kobe keep forgetting that kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. Kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and his work in the post will have him continue to produce. I am failing to see where it is unlikely that kobe can return to a 25/5/5 type of season.


duncan's fundamentals and selflessness have allowed him and his team to play at a high level in a reduced role. kobe's stated he has no interest in that. i don't see any similarity.


That is because you are comparing things other than what the poster you replied to said.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Chick-N-Stew wrote:
Bryant is in decline but will still be the best overall player on the roster.


of a lousy roster.

Michael Jordan won MVP his final season with the Bulls and he still didn't have enough clout to persuade management to his side.

That Pau thinks he can lay down terms is just hilarious.


So please tell us who is on that roster. We will wait while you type that up.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
IGSaint wrote:
Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous.


Based on common sense, I would imagine. While I wouldn't want to count Kobe out when he is motivated to prove the doubters wrong, the reality is that at his age, with having a year and a half away from the game aside from a handful of games, the ods are very much against him returning to superstar form. I'm optimistic and would be happy if he can return and be a legitimate All-Star still. His injuries combined with is age are a steep hill to climb.


Tim Duncan is older than kobe and he is still playing at an elite level because he has fundamentals just like kobe has fundamentals. All the people who doubt kobe keep forgetting that kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. Kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and his work in the post will have him continue to produce. I am failing to see where it is unlikely that kobe can return to a 25/5/5 type of season.


duncan's fundamentals and selflessness have allowed him and his team to play at a high level in a reduced role. kobe's stated he has no interest in that. i don't see any similarity.


That is because you are comparing things other than what the poster you replied to said.


because he divorced individual stats from team success. kobe had a statistically brilliant season two years ago and it had little team impact. but hey if all you care about is his stat line, go with it...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Chick-N-Stew wrote:
Bryant is in decline but will still be the best overall player on the roster.


of a lousy roster.

Michael Jordan won MVP his final season with the Bulls and he still didn't have enough clout to persuade management to his side.

That Pau thinks he can lay down terms is just hilarious.


So please tell us who is on that roster. We will wait while you type that up.


you're right. i forgot to see the impact of being a better player than kendall marshall (although marshall had a better season last year...)


the new draft pick, or whom we trade it for, will probably have the most sway.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject:

rybee wrote:
Quote:
Bryant, who’s pouring his keen powers of observation, not to mention his inclination toward obsession, into the draft, reportedly wondered why the Lakers had to win their last two games, leaving them 27-55 with the No. 6 pick going into the lottery, rather than 26-56 with a coin flip with Utah for No. 5.


This is a valid reason to be frustrated lol


I laughed when I read that part - that's why I lumped Kobe into team tank. Watching us win games we had no business winning down that final stretch was just brutal in terms of the impact it will have long term.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
^ But why is 2012-13 the baseline?


Because for most people it hurts too much to be realistic.

I mean, do people realize that even if Kobe didn't get hurt, he would likely be worse at 36 than he was at 34?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject:

Well if you buy the prognosis that this was a freak injury and the Lakers and Kobe were extra cautious then I don't think 2012-2013 Kobe is unreasonable baseline.

He's had an entire season of rest and Germany PRP treatment to go into his offseason of conditioning. I feel much better about Kobe going forward than I did last season where I was worried he'd rush back too early.

I think it was partially a blessing in disguise. His Achilles has Had plenty of time to recover and his knee fracture that was projected for 6 weeks was given an extra 7 months. These are things to feel great about it.
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