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activeverb
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 Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| salami wrote: | | Al13 wrote: | | yes kobe we are also frustrated that at this stage of your career you still need to get paid 24 million a year.....dirk, duncan, lebron, wade have all taken paycuts or will take them to help their team stay competetive....so he can be frustrated as much as he wants, but this greedy behavior after he made hundreds of millions does not really show that he has put his desire of winning another ring over making money....shame on you kobe bryant, i' m also very frustrated about that |
Its one thing to give a discount to the Spurs who have been consistently excellent for a long time. Or to assemble a team around Lebron, pretty much another sure bet.
But it would be stupid to give a discount to a franchise that shuns the most elite coach in history for the Dantoni Bros. The front office has its head up its ass and if Kobe gave them a discount, it would have been pointless. Jim Buss has a long way to go to make up for the Phil Jackson blunder. Then he can earn the credibility and trust it takes to ask players to sign for a discount.
Theres a good chance that even if Kobe did give a discount, it would be to play for Dantoni another season and go nowhere. |
That's fine - but then take the money and shut your mouth. Don't take the money and then whine to the media that you need "help" because your number 1 goal is to win another ring. There's nothing wrong with being a money wh*re. Most people are. But irritating thing is when a money wh*re pretends to be Mother Teresa. |
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salami
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | salami wrote: | | Al13 wrote: | | yes kobe we are also frustrated that at this stage of your career you still need to get paid 24 million a year.....dirk, duncan, lebron, wade have all taken paycuts or will take them to help their team stay competetive....so he can be frustrated as much as he wants, but this greedy behavior after he made hundreds of millions does not really show that he has put his desire of winning another ring over making money....shame on you kobe bryant, i' m also very frustrated about that |
Its one thing to give a discount to the Spurs who have been consistently excellent for a long time. Or to assemble a team around Lebron, pretty much another sure bet.
But it would be stupid to give a discount to a franchise that shuns the most elite coach in history for the Dantoni Bros. The front office has its head up its ass and if Kobe gave them a discount, it would have been pointless. Jim Buss has a long way to go to make up for the Phil Jackson blunder. Then he can earn the credibility and trust it takes to ask players to sign for a discount.
Theres a good chance that even if Kobe did give a discount, it would be to play for Dantoni another season and go nowhere. |
That's fine - but then take the money and shut your mouth. Don't take the money and then whine to the media that you need "help" because your number 1 goal is to win another ring. There's nothing wrong with being a money wh*re. Most people are. But irritating thing is when a money wh*re pretends to be Mother Teresa. |
This franchise owes more than the last decade of relevance to Kobe. He is not content with this team sucking as the front office or the some of the fanbase is. The last 2 years have been a disaster, and when it was time to complete the tank job in order to get the most out of a crappy situation, they couldnt even get that right. It has been a chain of disasters that can be attributed to poor moves and planning by the front office with no end in sight.
Kobe isnt pretending to be Mother Teresa or pretending to be anything. He is a champion and has a low tolerance for the type of incompetence that put this team in the position its in now and squandered his last chances at even more greatness.
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kray28_ wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
They never played MDA's style that season. |
From early December 2012 through end of January 2013 they ran the square peg/round hole system that D'Antoni wanted to play. It was poorly received and within the week D'Antoni had already thrown Pau under the bus.
They played lots of uptempo ball with lots of screen and roll and some (ineffective) postups for Dwight thrown in. Defense was horrendous...even with Dwight in there. After getting blown out in Memphis in late January, Kobe basically staged a coup and reasserted the post centric offense where the ball went through him. He racked up some high assist games trying to get everyone involved and was central in getting the team into the playoffs.
It was a crazy season, and one that was off the charts for him...he got the Lakers into the playoffs playing crazy minutes, and D'Antoni was more than happy to run him into the ground. (if you really want to know why I hate Mike...this is the reason). Kobe gave it his all to get the team into the playoffs. What was sad and pathetic was the sad sack effort the Lakers had against the Spurs. What a way to honor that sacrifice. Cherry on top was D'Antoni calling Kobe a "fan". Man, I hate that mother (bleep). |
Yeah, man. Just one more in a long list of examples where MDA has shown he has no clue how to deal with players' personalities or the media. What a moron.
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| IGSaint wrote: | | Tim Duncan is older than kobe and he is still playing at an elite level because he has fundamentals just like kobe has fundamentals. All the people who doubt kobe keep forgetting that kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. Kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and his work in the post will have him continue to produce. I am failing to see where it is unlikely that kobe can return to a 25/5/5 type of season. |
Tim Duncan has also only been an all-star once in the past three years and has went from a great defender to a poor one. The Spurs give up less points when he's on the bench, and opposing centers shoot 55% against him while averaging a PER of nearly 20. If Kobe plays more in the post, I do believe he can still be an elite scorer, but he's not going to have the perimeter explosion he had 2 years ago though. And his quickness (which is going to be lost through age and injury) is more important to him at SG/SF than it is to Duncan at PF/C. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| salami wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | salami wrote: | | Al13 wrote: | | yes kobe we are also frustrated that at this stage of your career you still need to get paid 24 million a year.....dirk, duncan, lebron, wade have all taken paycuts or will take them to help their team stay competetive....so he can be frustrated as much as he wants, but this greedy behavior after he made hundreds of millions does not really show that he has put his desire of winning another ring over making money....shame on you kobe bryant, i' m also very frustrated about that |
Its one thing to give a discount to the Spurs who have been consistently excellent for a long time. Or to assemble a team around Lebron, pretty much another sure bet.
But it would be stupid to give a discount to a franchise that shuns the most elite coach in history for the Dantoni Bros. The front office has its head up its ass and if Kobe gave them a discount, it would have been pointless. Jim Buss has a long way to go to make up for the Phil Jackson blunder. Then he can earn the credibility and trust it takes to ask players to sign for a discount.
Theres a good chance that even if Kobe did give a discount, it would be to play for Dantoni another season and go nowhere. |
That's fine - but then take the money and shut your mouth. Don't take the money and then whine to the media that you need "help" because your number 1 goal is to win another ring. There's nothing wrong with being a money wh*re. Most people are. But irritating thing is when a money wh*re pretends to be Mother Teresa. |
This franchise owes more than the last decade of relevance to Kobe. He is not content with this team sucking as the front office or the some of the fanbase is. The last 2 years have been a disaster, and when it was time to complete the tank job in order to get the most out of a crappy situation, they couldnt even get that right. It has been a chain of disasters that can be attributed to poor moves and planning by the front office with no end in sight.
Kobe isnt pretending to be Mother Teresa or pretending to be anything. He is a champion and has a low tolerance for the type of incompetence that put this team in the position its in now and squandered his last chances at even more greatness. |
Your tolerance can't be that low, if you took a $48.5M 2-year deal in an era under the current CBA in a season where you made a ludicrous $30M for not playing.
That's like saying you have a low tolerance for living an unhealthy lifestyle while you pound down some Mastro's butter cake. |
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55
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | IGSaint wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | IGSaint wrote: | | Kobe can't do that anymore based on what? Have you actually seen a full season of kobe since he came back from injury? People and laker fans shockingly are so quick to write off kobe when they haven't seen him on the court for an entire damn season. You can't judge him based on the few games he came back from. It's ridiculous. |
Based on common sense, I would imagine. While I wouldn't want to count Kobe out when he is motivated to prove the doubters wrong, the reality is that at his age, with having a year and a half away from the game aside from a handful of games, the ods are very much against him returning to superstar form. I'm optimistic and would be happy if he can return and be a legitimate All-Star still. His injuries combined with is age are a steep hill to climb. |
Tim Duncan is older than kobe and he is still playing at an elite level because he has fundamentals just like kobe has fundamentals. All the people who doubt kobe keep forgetting that kobe's game doesn't rely on athleticism. Kobe has one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and his work in the post will have him continue to produce. I am failing to see where it is unlikely that kobe can return to a 25/5/5 type of season. |
duncan's fundamentals and selflessness have allowed him and his team to play at a high level in a reduced role. kobe's stated he has no interest in that. i don't see any similarity. |
That is because you are comparing things other than what the poster you replied to said. |
because he divorced individual stats from team success. kobe had a statistically brilliant season two years ago and it had little team impact. but hey if all you care about is his stat line, go with it... |
How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
No, but I can accept the fact that he doesn't always win, and in most seasons, that he loses. Do I put that entirely on his shoulders? No, I don't.
But I don't put it entirely on his shoulders when he does win either. If Kobe is the biggest factor in whether this team wins, then he is also the biggest factor when this team loses.
You want to credit him for "taking over" midway through the season, but you don't want to blame him for not taking over earlier?
It's like "Oh man, we lost by 3 but Kobe was the primary reason we didn't get blown out of this game" and then just erasing from memory that he went 2-12 with no defense in the first half. |
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I just had to laugh at the title of this thread. Kobe is frustrated. Well, so are millions of Lakers fans. Tell me something I don't know Mr. Obvious.
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55
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
No, but I can accept the fact that he doesn't always win, and in most seasons, that he loses. Do I put that entirely on his shoulders? No, I don't.
But I don't put it entirely on his shoulders when he does win either. If Kobe is the biggest factor in whether this team wins, then he is also the biggest factor when this team loses.
You want to credit him for "taking over" midway through the season, but you don't want to blame him for not taking over earlier?
It's like "Oh man, we lost by 3 but Kobe was the primary reason we didn't get blown out of this game" and then just erasing from memory that he went 2-12 with no defense in the first half. |
This is probably where you're confused. A coaching change, MDA's style, players not buying in, meshing with Howard... all those are cause for poor play. Kobe taking over was what made the team play better, not just his own play. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| some of you sounded like Kobe is the ultimate coaches' pet. they guy was on record saying he set his own playing time, coach can tell him whatever but he decides when he rests, go google it up, it was posted here toward end of last season when this subject being brought up by media. as for playing style, again, Kobe dances to his own vibes. the only time he really REALLY followed coaching to the tee was during the 3peat era with Shaq. after Shaq left, he basically does his own thing. even during the back to back title runs, triangle was only used at beginning of each halves, then Kobe would do his iso rest of the way. |
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marga86
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:31 am Post subject: |
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I'd be frustrated too with all that money coming into my back account.
I wouldnt know what to do with it. |
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deal
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| marga86 wrote: | I'd be frustrated too with all that money coming into my back account.
I wouldnt know what to do with it. |
I agree, a big "fuss" for sure....
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| salami wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
This franchise owes more than the last decade of relevance to Kobe. He is not content with this team sucking as the front office or the some of the fanbase is. The last 2 years have been a disaster, and when it was time to complete the tank job in order to get the most out of a crappy situation, they couldnt even get that right. It has been a chain of disasters that can be attributed to poor moves and planning by the front office with no end in sight. |
Kobe isnt pretending to be Mother Teresa or pretending to be anything. He is a champion and has a low tolerance for the type of incompetence that put this team in the position its in now and squandered his last chances at even more greatness. |
Kobe signed the extension in November. If the "incompetence" of what happened before that really bothered him, he was a fool to resign. That's completely on him.
So let's focus on the point from November (when Kobe resigned) to now. In November, it was clear the Lakers had an old roster with little talent and needed to rebuild. Kobe took most of the cap space that was available for free agents.
So I don't know what you or he expect the Lakers to do to create this championship-level team in a couple of months.
If Kobe is in a position where his last chance at greatness is "squandered," then Kobe is the person who "squandered" it because he chose to take money over going to a competitive team.
The irony to this is the most incompetent thing the Lakers did was give Kobe all that money before seeing if he could return healthy.
Last edited by activeverb on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
They never played MDA's style that season. |
They tried, just weren't good at it. |
Steve Nash disagrees with you, he said they never had the chance to learn it.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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deal
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
They never played MDA's style that season. |
They tried, just weren't good at it. |
Steve Nash disagrees with you, he said they never had the chance to learn it. |
Who really cares; Kobe, Nash and Pau have a bunch of old legs affected by injury.
Is run n gun really the way to go? Nooooo. Half court O may be more adequate; and if the league would chop NBA games to only 24 minutes may the old farts could survive the season..... |
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55
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
They never played MDA's style that season. |
They tried, just weren't good at it. |
Steve Nash disagrees with you, he said they never had the chance to learn it. |
Never had a chance to learn it fully or properly without having training camp - correct. Hence why I said they tried. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
No, but I can accept the fact that he doesn't always win, and in most seasons, that he loses. Do I put that entirely on his shoulders? No, I don't.
But I don't put it entirely on his shoulders when he does win either. If Kobe is the biggest factor in whether this team wins, then he is also the biggest factor when this team loses.
You want to credit him for "taking over" midway through the season, but you don't want to blame him for not taking over earlier?
It's like "Oh man, we lost by 3 but Kobe was the primary reason we didn't get blown out of this game" and then just erasing from memory that he went 2-12 with no defense in the first half. |
This is probably where you're confused. A coaching change, MDA's style, players not buying in, meshing with Howard... all those are cause for poor play. Kobe taking over was what made the team play better, not just his own play. |
Right. So was Kobe's lack of taking over earlier, what made the team not play better then? |
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Goldenwest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | salami wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
This franchise owes more than the last decade of relevance to Kobe. He is not content with this team sucking as the front office or the some of the fanbase is. The last 2 years have been a disaster, and when it was time to complete the tank job in order to get the most out of a crappy situation, they couldnt even get that right. It has been a chain of disasters that can be attributed to poor moves and planning by the front office with no end in sight. |
Kobe isnt pretending to be Mother Teresa or pretending to be anything. He is a champion and has a low tolerance for the type of incompetence that put this team in the position its in now and squandered his last chances at even more greatness. |
Kobe signed the extension in November. If the "incompetence" of what happened before that really bothered him, he was a fool to resign. That's completely on him.
So let's focus on the point from November (when Kobe resigned) to now. In November, it was clear the Lakers had an old roster with little talent and needed to rebuild. Kobe took most of the cap space that was available for free agents.
So I don't know what you or he expect the Lakers to do to create this championship-level team in a couple of months.
If Kobe is in a position where his last chance at greatness is "squandered," then Kobe is the person who "squandered" it because he chose to take money over going to a competitive team.
The irony to this is the most incompetent thing the Lakers did was give Kobe all that money before seeing if he could return healthy. |
Both the FO and Kobe are to blame here. FO wanted the easy way out and wanted to profit off Kobe's name instead of investing in younger up and coming star players, and Kobe took advantage of that. It seems Both sides showed they care more about money than championships. The fans are the only ones left out in the cold. |
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salami
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Posts: 1426
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | salami wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
This franchise owes more than the last decade of relevance to Kobe. He is not content with this team sucking as the front office or the some of the fanbase is. The last 2 years have been a disaster, and when it was time to complete the tank job in order to get the most out of a crappy situation, they couldnt even get that right. It has been a chain of disasters that can be attributed to poor moves and planning by the front office with no end in sight. |
Kobe isnt pretending to be Mother Teresa or pretending to be anything. He is a champion and has a low tolerance for the type of incompetence that put this team in the position its in now and squandered his last chances at even more greatness. |
Kobe signed the extension in November. If the "incompetence" of what happened before that really bothered him, he was a fool to resign. That's completely on him.
So let's focus on the point from November (when Kobe resigned) to now. In November, it was clear the Lakers had an old roster with little talent and needed to rebuild. Kobe took most of the cap space that was available for free agents.
So I don't know what you or he expect the Lakers to do to create this championship-level team in a couple of months.
If Kobe is in a position where his last chance at greatness is "squandered," then Kobe is the person who "squandered" it because he chose to take money over going to a competitive team.
The irony to this is the most incompetent thing the Lakers did was give Kobe all that money before seeing if he could return healthy. |
Squandering is not hiring Phil Jackson in favor of Dantoni. Another example is not hiring Phil in favor of Jim Buss. Another example is being a couple losses away from a top 3 pick in the draft and not making it happen. These are just the most destructive choices made by the front office that has nothing to do with cap space or CBA limitations. Its just the front office doing the wrong thing for no justifiable reason, purely out of incompetence.
Thank god for Kobe putting pressure on the front office to not be happy with sucking out because thats what they were hinting at when they keep pushing back the plan until 2015. The front office wanted Kobe badly enough to make him the highest paid player just to keep the world wide iconic champion in the purple and gold, and this is what they are getting. The deal comes with the candid voice of one of the greatest players of all time, the voice of a champion. No muzzle, no pretending like this team does not suck. If they didn't want Kobe speaking out against the direction of this franchise, they shouldnt have run it into the ground
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
No, but I can accept the fact that he doesn't always win, and in most seasons, that he loses. Do I put that entirely on his shoulders? No, I don't.
But I don't put it entirely on his shoulders when he does win either. If Kobe is the biggest factor in whether this team wins, then he is also the biggest factor when this team loses.
You want to credit him for "taking over" midway through the season, but you don't want to blame him for not taking over earlier?
It's like "Oh man, we lost by 3 but Kobe was the primary reason we didn't get blown out of this game" and then just erasing from memory that he went 2-12 with no defense in the first half. |
This is probably where you're confused. A coaching change, MDA's style, players not buying in, meshing with Howard... all those are cause for poor play. Kobe taking over was what made the team play better, not just his own play. |
Right. So was Kobe's lack of taking over earlier, what made the team not play better then? |
Did you not watch the 2012-13 season? If you did, then why do you need someone to spell it out for you? The Lakers turned their season around when Kobe started assuming the PG duties. Why didn't he do it sooner? Because he was trying to let Nash run the team. When it became clear that Nash's leg was preventing him from being able run the team as people were accustomed to seeing him do, Kobe took over the primary ballhandling duties and, by extension, changed the way the Lakers operated on offense. I'm not one to worship the ground that Kobe walks on, but it was clear that his elevated play on the court is what spurred the Lakers to a strong finish. If you want to lay the blame on Kobe for the poor start, that's your problem. |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| salami wrote: |
Squandering is not hiring Phil Jackson in favor of Dantoni. Another example is not hiring Phil in favor of Jim Buss. |
Reality check: The Lakers picked Dantoni and passed on Jackson long before Kobe signed his extension. And Jim Buss isn't going anywhere. If those were important factors for Kobe, he shouldn't have signed the extension.
As far as us winning the last two games, what can you do? We put lousy players on the court but a few of them shot really well so we won. You can't force players to lose or order them to miss shots. |
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greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| RCS926 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
No, but I can accept the fact that he doesn't always win, and in most seasons, that he loses. Do I put that entirely on his shoulders? No, I don't.
But I don't put it entirely on his shoulders when he does win either. If Kobe is the biggest factor in whether this team wins, then he is also the biggest factor when this team loses.
You want to credit him for "taking over" midway through the season, but you don't want to blame him for not taking over earlier?
It's like "Oh man, we lost by 3 but Kobe was the primary reason we didn't get blown out of this game" and then just erasing from memory that he went 2-12 with no defense in the first half. |
This is probably where you're confused. A coaching change, MDA's style, players not buying in, meshing with Howard... all those are cause for poor play. Kobe taking over was what made the team play better, not just his own play. |
Right. So was Kobe's lack of taking over earlier, what made the team not play better then? |
Did you not watch the 2012-13 season? If you did, then why do you need someone to spell it out for you? The Lakers turned their season around when Kobe started assuming the PG duties. Why didn't he do it sooner? Because he was trying to let Nash run the team. When it became clear that Nash's leg was preventing him from being able run the team as people were accustomed to seeing him do, Kobe took over the primary ballhandling duties and, by extension, changed the way the Lakers operated on offense. I'm not one to worship the ground that Kobe walks on, but it was clear that his elevated play on the court is what spurred the Lakers to a strong finish. If you want to lay the blame on Kobe for the poor start, that's your problem. |
you've completely missed the forest for the trees. their offense was never the problem that season, even during the stupid princeton trial. it was always about defense. what kobe doing more of the ballhandling has do with that is beyond me. they played at a slower pace early in the season and were too dysfunctional to defend. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | salami wrote: |
Squandering is not hiring Phil Jackson in favor of Dantoni. Another example is not hiring Phil in favor of Jim Buss. |
Reality check: The Lakers picked Dantoni and passed on Jackson long before Kobe signed his extension. And Jim Buss isn't going anywhere. If those were important factors for Kobe, he shouldn't have signed the extension.
As far as us winning the last two games, what can you do? We put lousy players on the court but a few of them shot really well so we won. You can't force players to lose or order them to miss shots. |
Exactly, Kobe knew the situation before he signed the extension, he knew how his salary would affect the Laker's cap. If he is now frustrated with how things seem to be going, he can ask for a trade, or he can compartmentalize it and play out his last two seasons. My guess is that is what he does. The fact is, he has few options.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| RCS926 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
No, but I can accept the fact that he doesn't always win, and in most seasons, that he loses. Do I put that entirely on his shoulders? No, I don't.
But I don't put it entirely on his shoulders when he does win either. If Kobe is the biggest factor in whether this team wins, then he is also the biggest factor when this team loses.
You want to credit him for "taking over" midway through the season, but you don't want to blame him for not taking over earlier?
It's like "Oh man, we lost by 3 but Kobe was the primary reason we didn't get blown out of this game" and then just erasing from memory that he went 2-12 with no defense in the first half. |
This is probably where you're confused. A coaching change, MDA's style, players not buying in, meshing with Howard... all those are cause for poor play. Kobe taking over was what made the team play better, not just his own play. |
Right. So was Kobe's lack of taking over earlier, what made the team not play better then? |
Did you not watch the 2012-13 season? If you did, then why do you need someone to spell it out for you? The Lakers turned their season around when Kobe started assuming the PG duties. Why didn't he do it sooner? Because he was trying to let Nash run the team. When it became clear that Nash's leg was preventing him from being able run the team as people were accustomed to seeing him do, Kobe took over the primary ballhandling duties and, by extension, changed the way the Lakers operated on offense. I'm not one to worship the ground that Kobe walks on, but it was clear that his elevated play on the court is what spurred the Lakers to a strong finish. If you want to lay the blame on Kobe for the poor start, that's your problem. |
Kobe was trying to let Nash run the team when Nash didn't even play for a huge chunk of the first half of the season? Wouldn't that have been the opportune time to take over and win 70% of our games? That was when we had Nash and Blake out with Darius Morris and Chris Duhon starting at PG in November. Why didn't he take over running the team then? What was he doing? Trying to let Darius Morris and Chris Duhon run the team? I can't applaud that, I'm sorry.
If you're saying Kobe took over when it was clear that Nash couldn't be effective running the point, I want to know what took so long to realize that. When we had our 6th loss in a 7 game span in early December, he hadn't figured that out yet? We were 17-25 around the end of JANUARY. When we lost our 6th game in a row in early January, I guess it wasn't clear then yet either? If you look back at this forum then, I'm pretty sure it was clear to most of us. Heck, it was clear to a lot of us after an 0-8 preseason!
I think the thing is, I'm not blaming Kobe for the poor start. But I'm also not going to pretend there was some light switch where Kobe just decided to win 70% of their ball games either. It's not that easy because if it were, then why on earth would he not flip the light switch earlier? You could praise Kobe for the final 40 games where we went 28-12, but you can also fairly say, why couldn't you figure out how to play more effectively (and in winning fashion) with a PG at the helm? Why did it take you so long to realize Nash couldn't run this team? Etc, etc. So for me, I look at the season in totality ... and I see that individually, Kobe had a great season in terms of numbers. But, it didn't translate in to wins for a variety of reasons some of which I put on Kobe, and many of which, I don't. I just can't get on board with a philosophy that Kobe CHOOSES to take over when we win, because that's suggesting he intentionally chooses NOT to take over when we lose and I don't believe it works that way. |
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magicdays
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 1907
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | How can you say that with a straight face? He's the primary reason why the Lakers finished the season winning 70% of their games and made it to the playoffs after a disastrous start. Without Kobe going ballistic, we'd be looking right now at a 2nd straight year in the lottery. |
Only on LG does Kobe get most of the credit for the 28-12 streak, but none of the responsibility for losing 57% of the games to start the he season. |
At what point in the season did Kobe take the control of the offense and went away from MDA's style? |
Are you implying that willingly allowed this team to lose prior to that? |
Do you think Kobe is a loser? |
No, but I can accept the fact that he doesn't always win, and in most seasons, that he loses. Do I put that entirely on his shoulders? No, I don't.
But I don't put it entirely on his shoulders when he does win either. If Kobe is the biggest factor in whether this team wins, then he is also the biggest factor when this team loses.
You want to credit him for "taking over" midway through the season, but you don't want to blame him for not taking over earlier?
It's like "Oh man, we lost by 3 but Kobe was the primary reason we didn't get blown out of this game" and then just erasing from memory that he went 2-12 with no defense in the first half. |
This is probably where you're confused. A coaching change, MDA's style, players not buying in, meshing with Howard... all those are cause for poor play. Kobe taking over was what made the team play better, not just his own play. |
Right. So was Kobe's lack of taking over earlier, what made the team not play better then? |
Did you not watch the 2012-13 season? If you did, then why do you need someone to spell it out for you? The Lakers turned their season around when Kobe started assuming the PG duties. Why didn't he do it sooner? Because he was trying to let Nash run the team. When it became clear that Nash's leg was preventing him from being able run the team as people were accustomed to seeing him do, Kobe took over the primary ballhandling duties and, by extension, changed the way the Lakers operated on offense. I'm not one to worship the ground that Kobe walks on, but it was clear that his elevated play on the court is what spurred the Lakers to a strong finish. If you want to lay the blame on Kobe for the poor start, that's your problem. |
Kobe was trying to let Nash run the team when Nash didn't even play for a huge chunk of the first half of the season? Wouldn't that have been the opportune time to take over and win 70% of our games? That was when we had Nash and Blake out with Darius Morris and Chris Duhon starting at PG in November. Why didn't he take over running the team then? What was he doing? Trying to let Darius Morris and Chris Duhon run the team? I can't applaud that, I'm sorry.
If you're saying Kobe took over when it was clear that Nash couldn't be effective running the point, I want to know what took so long to realize that. When we had our 6th loss in a 7 game span in early December, he hadn't figured that out yet? We were 17-25 around the end of JANUARY. When we lost our 6th game in a row in early January, I guess it wasn't clear then yet either? If you look back at this forum then, I'm pretty sure it was clear to most of us. Heck, it was clear to a lot of us after an 0-8 preseason!
I think the thing is, I'm not blaming Kobe for the poor start. But I'm also not going to pretend there was some light switch where Kobe just decided to win 70% of their ball games either. It's not that easy because if it were, then why on earth would he not flip the light switch earlier? You could praise Kobe for the final 40 games where we went 28-12, but you can also fairly say, why couldn't you figure out how to play more effectively (and in winning fashion) with a PG at the helm? Why did it take you so long to realize Nash couldn't run this team? Etc, etc. So for me, I look at the season in totality ... and I see that individually, Kobe had a great season in terms of numbers. But, it didn't translate in to wins for a variety of reasons some of which I put on Kobe, and many of which, I don't. I just can't get on board with a philosophy that Kobe CHOOSES to take over when we win, because that's suggesting he intentionally chooses NOT to take over when we lose and I don't believe it works that way. |
Simply put, Kobe and the team tried to play MDA's style as any good team player would try and do. However, it did not work. When it became obvious that MDA was not going to adapt his system to the players, Kobe and the team decided to show MDA how they could play better. This is not rocket science...
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Ahhhh, those were the days...time for a new beginning! |
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