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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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From what I have read, Melo has control with an Early Termination Option, so I am puzzled by discussions of him possibly being renounced by the Knicks to create space for a Sign and Trade of Pau.
Carmelo must decide by June 23
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MIAMI -- Carmelo Anthony has until June 23, essentially one week before the start of free agency, to notify the New York Knicks if he plans to opt in or out of the final year of his current contract, according to sources familiar with the terms of his deal...
...Sources told ESPN.com that Knicks president Phil Jackson is continuing to urge Anthony to exercise next season's $23.3 million player option and put off unrestricted free agency for one more year.
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LakersMDGurl Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 18015
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:48 am Post subject: |
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MIMLaker wrote: | I'd feel that no one player is bigger than the Laker franchise.
I'd also feel that, with Phil, Kobe, Fish, and Pau being on the Lakers, along with how many other ex-Lakers on the coaching staff, that the Knicks were doing a better job of being "The Lakers" than the current organization is doing.
"The Lakers" did not assume excellence because of what they had done. They strove for it, worked for it, and earned it -- and that's how they came to embody it.
This version has no idea what they're doing, so they're clinging to the vestiges of what they sued to be rather than building on what they used to be.
Your most recent successful coach? Let him go once to bring in "faster" play -- because slow, methodical play wasn't working before, and faster play would work better with your players getting older -- and then pass him over again because he wanted to take a weekend to mull it over.
Ditch his assistants. Ditch his trainers. Tell the press that there is "no place" in the organization for an 11-time championship coach, while your team is having its worst season EVER. Disregard the bold choice of hiring one of HIS former players to be head coach.
This team values running at a breakneck pace to get away from Phil Jackson's legacy/ aura/ success more than actually being successful.
Disgraceful.
MIM |
The bolded part right there, so damn true!!!!!! I get tired of hearing about what we have done!!!! What the heck have we done since 2010?History is cool and all, but while we are going on bragging about our history and culture other teams are winning in the present. _________________ New Beginings |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Phil loves Kobe, but there's no way he touches that contract. Phil wants Melo to take a paycut. This is a guy with PRIME years ahead, averaging 28 ppg and one of the top 10 players in the league last year. There's just no way I see him taking on Kobe's contract.
Now Pau? Maybe a S+T is possible. But I think Phil is trying to convince Melo to wait a year and have capspace to lure guys like Love in 2015, maybe even other FA's.
I could have seen this happen if Kobe/Pau were both FA's and they could have negotiated a new contract. However the current Kobe contract is probably one of the hardest to move in the NBA. |
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MIMLaker Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 10015 Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Remember, 4 seasons have passed since the 2010 title. Assuming the years you name are for the end of the season (i.e., 2011 = 2010-11 season)...
pmacla wrote: |
2011 a burnt out team still won their division and where the #2 seed and got bounced in second rd by eventually won the title |
Phil's last year. No complaint -- just bad breaks with bench injuries. Smart moves, tri system still in place, possible burnout.
Quote: | 2012 assembled a team the majority of experts and fans expected to challenge for the title but bad chemistry and injuries derailed the team and until Kobe got hurt many thought still would make a run and got bounced by team that was a rebound away from winning the title |
Mike Brown's first year. BIG MISTAKE. Team is still chock-full of veterans who've played the same system for the better part of 4 years, so they get a young, motor-mouth, micro-managing coach to implement an entirely new system? The team needed some new blood in the rotation and coaching staff, but not a whole transfusion. Worried about the money to pay Phil? Fine -- pay BShaw at about $4-6M a year less.
But to not only let go of Phil, but also his scouts, trainers, and assistants as if to purge all triangle philosophies from the franchise? For all of Mitch's renowned patience, Jim and the Buss family.(undoubtedly due to Dr. Buss' failing health) panicked and did a 180-degree turn, when at most a 30-degree correction was needed.
That course deviation only got worse when Fish was traded. ultimately to clear room for a point guard whom the team NEVER BOTHERED TO RE-SIGN. Ideally, Fish should've been relegated to the bench in the role OKC has him in now, as a mentor-leader filling both guard spots in a pinch, but Mike Brown didn't have the presence or gravitas to pull it off.
2012-13 -- Mike Brown's 1 1/10th year and MDA's first one: THAT'S when the great "team" was assembled with D12 and Nash. And yeah, I cheered it, too, because I thought D12 would give us young, yet more reliable legs than Bynum. But firing Brown only to pass up Phil? After the entire fanbase was cheering for his seeming-imminent return? After D12 was already dropping hints of how great it would be to play for him? After a season in which all the vets were less productive in Brown's Princeton offense? 2ND BIG MISTAKE.
Quote: | 2013 whole team was injured and in retrospect best possible outcome happened Kobe got an extra year to recover, Mike D got canned and Lakers got a lottery pick
so really what is the complaint ?? and not to mention the current heads of the Lakers have been in the same positions basically since the mid 2000's and where responsible for the their last run of 3 straight finals and back to back titles |
And now look at where we are, without Phil and Fish and any associated talent?
In dumping Phil, we lost a big chunk of credibility with free agents and coaching talent.
In never signing Shaw, we are STILL looking for a HC candidate with the elusive mix of (a) coaching ability, (b) championship pedigree, (c) Kobe-management skills, and (d) leadership presence.
In unceremoniously trading Fish, and then publicly stating we were not interested in interviewing him, we lost all the (a) thru (d) traits we lost by not locking in BShaw. And we also effectively burned bridges with a fan-beloved, player-respected figure in the NBA.
And for all the talk of rewarding Kobe for loyalty with his $24M/ year contract, how "loyal" do we look by passing over an 11-title HC because we had "no place" for him, and by dumping and disregarding a 5-title veteran down the line??? |
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pmacla Star Player
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Posts: 7849 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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MIMLaker wrote: | Remember, 4 seasons have passed since the 2010 title. Assuming the years you name are for the end of the season (i.e., 2011 = 2010-11 season)...
pmacla wrote: |
2011 a burnt out team still won their division and where the #2 seed and got bounced in second rd by eventually won the title |
Phil's last year. No complaint -- just bad breaks with bench injuries. Smart moves, tri system still in place, possible burnout.
Quote: | 2012 assembled a team the majority of experts and fans expected to challenge for the title but bad chemistry and injuries derailed the team and until Kobe got hurt many thought still would make a run and got bounced by team that was a rebound away from winning the title |
Mike Brown's first year. BIG MISTAKE. Team is still chock-full of veterans who've played the same system for the better part of 4 years, so they get a young, motor-mouth, micro-managing coach to implement an entirely new system? The team needed some new blood in the rotation and coaching staff, but not a whole transfusion. Worried about the money to pay Phil? Fine -- pay BShaw at about $4-6M a year less.
But to not only let go of Phil, but also his scouts, trainers, and assistants as if to purge all triangle philosophies from the franchise? For all of Mitch's renowned patience, Jim and the Buss family.(undoubtedly due to Dr. Buss' failing health) panicked and did a 180-degree turn, when at most a 30-degree correction was needed.
That course deviation only got worse when Fish was traded. ultimately to clear room for a point guard whom the team NEVER BOTHERED TO RE-SIGN. Ideally, Fish should've been relegated to the bench in the role OKC has him in now, as a mentor-leader filling both guard spots in a pinch, but Mike Brown didn't have the presence or gravitas to pull it off.
2012-13 -- Mike Brown's 1 1/10th year and MDA's first one: THAT'S when the great "team" was assembled with D12 and Nash. And yeah, I cheered it, too, because I thought D12 would give us young, yet more reliable legs than Bynum. But firing Brown only to pass up Phil? After the entire fanbase was cheering for his seeming-imminent return? After D12 was already dropping hints of how great it would be to play for him? After a season in which all the vets were less productive in Brown's Princeton offense? 2ND BIG MISTAKE.
Quote: | 2013 whole team was injured and in retrospect best possible outcome happened Kobe got an extra year to recover, Mike D got canned and Lakers got a lottery pick
so really what is the complaint ?? and not to mention the current heads of the Lakers have been in the same positions basically since the mid 2000's and where responsible for the their last run of 3 straight finals and back to back titles |
And now look at where we are, without Phil and Fish and any associated talent?
In dumping Phil, we lost a big chunk of credibility with free agents and coaching talent.
In never signing Shaw, we are STILL looking for a HC candidate with the elusive mix of (a) coaching ability, (b) championship pedigree, (c) Kobe-management skills, and (d) leadership presence.
In unceremoniously trading Fish, and then publicly stating we were not interested in interviewing him, we lost all the (a) thru (d) traits we lost by not locking in BShaw. And we also effectively burned bridges with a fan-beloved, player-respected figure in the NBA.
And for all the talk of rewarding Kobe for loyalty with his $24M/ year contract, how "loyal" do we look by passing over an 11-title HC because we had "no place" for him, and by dumping and disregarding a 5-title veteran down the line??? |
ok year i missed Lakers trade for Chris Paul get the deal nixed and have no training camp and lose in playoffs to team that went to Finals with 1st year coach
Phil has proven nothing as a front office person and burned every bridge in his past with FO people plus Dr Buss himself didnt want Phil having any control in Lakers organization once again I see no problem with what FO has tried to do sometimes you swing and miss Dr Buss did from what 1988-1999 |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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MIMLaker wrote: | I'd feel that no one player is bigger than the Laker franchise.
I'd also feel that, with Phil, Kobe, Fish, and Pau being on the Lakers, along with how many other ex-Lakers on the coaching staff, that the Knicks were doing a better job of being "The Lakers" than the current organization is doing.
"The Lakers" did not assume excellence because of what they had done. They strove for it, worked for it, and earned it -- and that's how they came to embody it.
This version has no idea what they're doing, so they're clinging to the vestiges of what they sued to be rather than building on what they used to be.
Your most recent successful coach? Let him go once to bring in "faster" play -- because slow, methodical play wasn't working before, and faster play would work better with your players getting older -- and then pass him over again because he wanted to take a weekend to mull it over.
Ditch his assistants. Ditch his trainers. Tell the press that there is "no place" in the organization for an 11-time championship coach, while your team is having its worst season EVER. Disregard the bold choice of hiring one of HIS former players to be head coach.
This team values running at a breakneck pace to get away from Phil Jackson's legacy/ aura/ success more than actually being successful.
Disgraceful.
MIM |
Seems like you're all over the place here.
You say the Lakers "did not did not assume excellence because of what they had done. They strove for it, worked for it, and earned it -- and that's how they came to embody it."
But then you praise the Knicks for grabbing as many ex-Lakers as possible. That seems to be the very definition of "clinging to the vestiges of what they used to be." |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Bard207 wrote: | From what I have read, Melo has control with an Early Termination Option, so I am puzzled by discussions of him possibly being renounced by the Knicks to create space for a Sign and Trade of Pau.
Carmelo must decide by June 23
Quote: |
MIAMI -- Carmelo Anthony has until June 23, essentially one week before the start of free agency, to notify the New York Knicks if he plans to opt in or out of the final year of his current contract, according to sources familiar with the terms of his deal...
...Sources told ESPN.com that Knicks president Phil Jackson is continuing to urge Anthony to exercise next season's $23.3 million player option and put off unrestricted free agency for one more year.
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If he exercises his termination clause the Knicks will still have his Bird Rights and will continue to have a cap hold for him. If they renounce him, the Bird Rights and the cap hold are gone. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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kwase Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 3069
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I would hate it if he did that, mainly because I like seeing players stay with one team. But I couldn't blame him. Phil & D. Fish could have been and should have been Lakers right now. But we all know who stood in the way! When all of your championships are aligned with those guys of coarse it can be pretty damn tempting to team up with them again. |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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41. What does renouncing a player mean?
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As detailed in question number 38, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exceptions (see question number 25) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. Teams are still permitted to re-sign renounced players, but only with cap room or an exception other than the Bird exception.
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58. What are option clauses? What kind of option clauses are there?
If Melo decides in late June to stay with the Knicks for his final (option) year, then how would he ever reach the Free Agent status for the Knicks to be able to renounce him in July?
You are already going with the concept that he has opted out and is a Free Agent while I am pointing out that he has until later this month to decide if he will pick up his option or to opt out.
Yes, if Melo opts out in late June, then the Knicks could renounce him to be able to get Pau on a Sign and Trade contract provided they stayed below the Apron. |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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kwase wrote: | I would hate it if he did that, mainly because I like seeing players stay with one team. But I couldn't blame him. Phil & D. Fish could have been and should have been Lakers right now. But we all know who stood in the way! When all of your championships are aligned with those guys of coarse it can be pretty damn tempting to team up with them again. |
Dr Buss never wanted Phil to have a FO position with the Lakers and that's what Phil wanted. He was only agreeing to coach the remainder of that 1 season and then he wanted a FO position which we weren't giving him. |
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Koalita Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Dec 2010 Posts: 901
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well, about Pau, I don't think the chances are high that he'd want to go to NY, but if there are two teams he'd go without them being contenders, it'd be LAL and NYK. |
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Dominator Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2005 Posts: 8671 Location: Irvine
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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kobe_luver wrote: | Dominator wrote: | kobe_luver wrote: | Why wouldn't we S+T Pau for Anthony? Then go after LeBron. |
Why in the world would the Knicks want Pau? Also, why would Pau want to go to a non-contender? |
Phil |
Pau isn't going to go to a losing situation just because Phil is there. If he goes anywhere it'll be to a team like Oklahoma City or Memphis to play with his brother. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Dominator wrote: | kobe_luver wrote: | Dominator wrote: | kobe_luver wrote: | Why wouldn't we S+T Pau for Anthony? Then go after LeBron. |
Why in the world would the Knicks want Pau? Also, why would Pau want to go to a non-contender? |
Phil |
Pau isn't going to go to a losing situation just because Phil is there. If he goes anywhere it'll be to a team like Oklahoma City or Memphis to play with his brother. |
TRUE. I do believe Pau is pretty sentimental and could have Memphis as his first option, just to be with the little bro.
We'll see though.
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BruceLeroy1985 Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 255
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I must say, between this thread and the coaching thread I am convinced that this forum consists entirely of morons with no basketball knowledge whatsoever. I have never seen a site with so many people that know so little but pretend to know a lot. Even the Jazz message boards don't have this many people so clueless as to how an NBA team works.
Not to mention the laughable way people on here fish for topics just because they want to feel special for creating their own thread like the OP of this one.
And then you have people saying they want to "go on record" saying the Lakers will trade Kobe to the knicks. Congrats. You want to go on record so we can laugh at you.
I remember now why I don't come to this site often, you all make me embarrassed to be a Lakers fan. |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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BruceLeroy1985 wrote: | I must say, between this thread and the coaching thread I am convinced that this forum consists entirely of morons with no basketball knowledge whatsoever. I have never seen a site with so many people that know so little but pretend to know a lot. Even the Jazz message boards don't have this many people so clueless as to how an NBA team works.
Not to mention the laughable way people on here fish for topics just because they want to feel special for creating their own thread like the OP of this one.
And then you have people saying they want to "go on record" saying the Lakers will trade Kobe to the knicks. Congrats. You want to go on record so we can laugh at you.
I remember now why I don't come to this site often, you all make me embarrassed to be a Lakers fan. |
I did not start this thread "fishing for topics just because I want to feel special"!! I've been here for many, many years and do not start frivolous threads. I'm sure most here know me....I don't need to start a thread to get attention.
Next, I did not say I was going on record that the Lakers will trade Kobe to the Knicks. Maybe you should read what I actually said. I said I go on record thinking that the Lakers and Phil will try to work out a S+T with Kobe or Pau or both.
Your rude and incorrect post insulting us posting in this thread and calling us "morons" is the embarrassment. I think you should go back to not coming or posting here often as you said. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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BruceLeroy1985 wrote: | I must say, between this thread and the coaching thread I am convinced that this forum consists entirely of morons with no basketball knowledge whatsoever. I have never seen a site with so many people that know so little but pretend to know a lot. Even the Jazz message boards don't have this many people so clueless as to how an NBA team works.
Not to mention the laughable way people on here fish for topics just because they want to feel special for creating their own thread like the OP of this one.
And then you have people saying they want to "go on record" saying the Lakers will trade Kobe to the knicks. Congrats. You want to go on record so we can laugh at you.
I remember now why I don't come to this site often, you all make me embarrassed to be a Lakers fan. |
Likewise. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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BruceLeroy1985 wrote: | I must say, between this thread and the coaching thread I am convinced that this forum consists entirely of morons with no basketball knowledge whatsoever. I have never seen a site with so many people that know so little but pretend to know a lot. Even the Jazz message boards don't have this many people so clueless as to how an NBA team works.
Not to mention the laughable way people on here fish for topics just because they want to feel special for creating their own thread like the OP of this one.
And then you have people saying they want to "go on record" saying the Lakers will trade Kobe to the knicks. Congrats. You want to go on record so we can laugh at you.
I remember now why I don't come to this site often, you all make me embarrassed to be a Lakers fan. |
People from all walks of life come here. There is no obligation for you to post but be mindful that you may not like what to see or read but that is everyone's privilege.
We all show a little class when we respect others. |
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Jeggs Star Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2013 Posts: 1659
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Kobe already said it...Laker for life. He will retire a Laker and when he decides to hang it up, he's not coming back. |
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Hammett Star Player
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 9309
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe signing with NY would be huge.
It would be the icing on the cake of the Jim Buss Era. _________________ Lakers. Built different. |
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WindyCityLakerFan Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2002 Posts: 1537 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Phil loves Kobe, but there's no way he touches that contract. Phil wants Melo to take a paycut. This is a guy with PRIME years ahead, averaging 28 ppg and one of the top 10 players in the league last year. There's just no way I see him taking on Kobe's contract.
Now Pau? Maybe a S+T is possible. But I think Phil is trying to convince Melo to wait a year and have capspace to lure guys like Love in 2015, maybe even other FA's.
I could have seen this happen if Kobe/Pau were both FA's and they could have negotiated a new contract. However the current Kobe contract is probably one of the hardest to move in the NBA. |
I think it all depends on what love and Lebron do this offseason. If they both commit beyond 2015 who else is there in the 2015 class. If there was a trade I see it being Amare for Kobe. Kobe and Melo in the east with Lebron maybe gone and a Stevenson less Pacers. You can roll with this for two years and wait for 2016 when Durant becomes a free agent (who's the coach of the Knicks). |
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Cup-of-noodles Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2010 Posts: 1696
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:54 am Post subject: |
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lol...unbelievable... after all that they still want Kobe to Leave... |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6280 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if the Knicks would have us sign/trade Pau and Nash for Stoudmire. |
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