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lakersken80
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Indy will win the east next year, in my opinion. That Cleveland roster has some growing pains but I believe they will be in the Finals 2 years down the road. |
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The Shadow King
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I am pulling hard for New York or Chicago; for Fish and Pau, respectively.
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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| They may make the Finals but they're sure as hell not winning anything until at least 2017. But they'll be really, really, really scary by 2017 |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know their final roster yet. There's quite a lot of talent, but to win you need guys who fill in the holes and compliment each other.
CLE lacks a go to big guy - Miami had Bosh.
CLE lacks 3 point shooting - Miami had Allen, Battier, Chalmers etc. all taking 3's.
CLE has no defensive identity - Miami had that with Spo/Riley who greatly implement a defensive culture.
I actually think CLE as is would be one of the most inconsistent teams in the NBA, one of the most exciting teams to watch because of LBJ/Wiggins/Irving trio, but I'd be surprised if they won more than 50 games next year. LBJ alone is worth 20 extra RS wins to any team. But they have to make the parts fit.
Realistic goal should be playoffs and maybe 2nd round for them. That's unless they've got major trades in play. They need a go to big guy, they need some shooters and they need to make sure the young guys will play hard D not getting the ball at all. One of the hardest things to do for a young team is to watch a superstar or 2 guys monopolize the ball and still play hard D for 48 min. It rarely happens. There's a reason Phil used Fish/Horry/Harper/Shaw/Fox/Grant type of guys around Shaq/Kobe. Or Lamar/Ariza/Artest/Fish/Walton around Kobe/Gasol. Not too many young guys in this league play D when not getting the ball much.
To be honest, I think Mike Brown did a better job for CLE than people realized. He built a team around LBJ's strengths. Had role players that just sat back and shot 3's and played D. And there was Big Z in the middle/high post to score. I think while less talented, the CLE teams LBJ had in 2007-2010 were stronger and more suited to win a title than this CLE team. |
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improper
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Joined: 07 Jan 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | CLE lacks a go to big guy - Miami had Bosh.
CLE lacks 3 point shooting - Miami had Allen, Battier, Chalmers etc. all taking 3's.
CLE has no defensive identity - Miami had that with Spo/Riley who greatly implement a defensive culture. |
I think the three point shooting thing is false. Kyrie Irving is a fantastic three point shooter. He had a down year last season in Brown's awful offense, but he won the three point shootout two years ago and came close last year. Dion Waiters shot something like 41% last year from three while spotting up (which he'll be able to do a lot of this year with LeBron and Kyrie on the floor). They just signed Mike Miller. Dellavedova is an above average three point shooter. LeBron is obviously good from three. Wiggins and Bennett are both works in progress, but they also both have great form on their jumpers and should become good three point shooters. Oh, and the Cavs will probably sign Ray Allen.
I would also disagree about the defensive identity. David Blatt, their new head coach, was known as a defensive-minded coach in Europe. Given that the Cavs will have LeBron and Wiggins on the wings to terrorize opposing teams, they should be able to build a really good defense. They still need a rim protecting big man, but that may have to wait to be addressed until next summer.
I totally agree that they lack a go-to big man, though. If they trade for Kevin Love, that problem obviously goes away, though.
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | I actually think CLE as is would be one of the most inconsistent teams in the NBA, one of the most exciting teams to watch because of LBJ/Wiggins/Irving trio, but I'd be surprised if they won more than 50 games next year. LBJ alone is worth 20 extra RS wins to any team. But they have to make the parts fit. |
Personally, I think you could pair LeBron with any group of scrubs in the NBA and he'd somehow find a way to win fifty games with them. Just look at the 2007 team he took to the Finals. LeBron was nowhere near as good back then, and he still took that awful roster to fifty wins and the Finals.
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | To be honest, I think Mike Brown did a better job for CLE than people realized. He built a team around LBJ's strengths. Had role players that just sat back and shot 3's and played D. And there was Big Z in the middle/high post to score. I think while less talented, the CLE teams LBJ had in 2007-2010 were stronger and more suited to win a title than this CLE team. |
Mike Brown was a good defensive coach, but his offense was always a joke. I don't think Spoelstra is a great coach, but he built a much smarter, more efficient offense around his guys than Brown would ever be able to dream up. Brown was also awful at mid-game adjustments, which led to him getting worked over constantly because he refused to adjust his strategy. There was almost no one in Cleveland who wanted Brown back when the team rehired him, and no one is shedding tears that they fired him again and hired a real coach. |
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NBAFAN24
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Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | No rim protection and very little rebounding other than Varejao in that current lineup and Varejao has had problems staying healthy for the last 3-4 years. Cavs were second to last in blocks last season.
Lack of perimeter shooting. Their best shooters (Spencer Hawes and CJ Miles) left in free agency. Lebron needs shooters to space the floor to give him room to operate.
We've often commented on how Kobe would have difficulty playing with a ball dominant PG, but Lebron has never played with one either. Maybe Kyrie can make the adjustment like Wade did. We'll see. |
The Cavs were the 11th best rebounding team in the league last season, while Miami were dead last at #30 and have been almost that way in the last four years. The Heat were 18th in blocks, and Cavs were 29th blocks. They do need to add a good rim protector, but rebounding is just as important. |
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LakersMDGurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I would not crown them the LeAstern kings yet. Other teams are stacking and getting ready. The Bulls will be a force for the CAVs to recon with. I don't know about the Pacers, losing Lance and not really signing anyone worth damn makes me wary. NY is no better, Melo and all that talk about wanting to win settled for money and mediocrity for another season. Charlotte, Wizards and Raps will be a force in the LeAst. LeBron wont just have it that easy.
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SP_Fever
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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updated roster after Love/Wiggins trade
p.s. Miller/Jones are still ring-chasers
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see Cleveland getting past Chicago (with Rose healthy). Blatt has ALOT of potential as a head coach. But I doubt he will be better than Thibs by the end of year. Without Rose or Gasol they made the playoffs last year and were a solid defensive team with a lack of scoring options.
Washington Wizards could beat Cleveland as well. Wall and Beal will be one year better than last year. Nene and Gortat could easily bully Love and Varajao. I also think their bench is better. Either Pierce or Webster, Andre miller, Otto Porter, and Kris Humphries.
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| I think they will roll in the regular season but run into problems in the playoffs. |
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K28
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| That's a high expectations roster that looks really good on paper, but has a lot of hidden holes that no one is thinking about. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Sour grapes from the Wolves owner, but also some valid points lol:
"I think where maybe he got away with some stuff not playing defense on our team, I'm not sure that's how it's going to work in Cleveland," Taylor said on ESPN Radio 1500 AM in the Twin Cities on Tuesday. "I would guess they're going to ask him to play more defense, and he's foul-prone.
I question Kevin if this is going to be the best deal for him, because I think he's going to be the third player on the team," Taylor added. "I don't think he's going to get a lot of credit if they do really well. I think he'll get blame if they don't do well. He's around a couple guys that are awful good."
Taylor also questioned the durability of Love, who has twice suffered a broken hand, which caused him to miss most of the 2012-13 season.
"The only thing I still have a question mark about is health," Taylor said. "I had that concern then [when they negotiated his previous contract], and I still have that concern. I think Cleveland should have that concern, too."
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11415027/glen-taylor-minnesota-timberwolves-says-cleveland-cavaliers-not-best-bet-kevin-love
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Telleris
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Joined: 28 May 2013
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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The thing about the Cavs is they're probably the worst defensive "big 3" in nba history, and they don't even have a specialist to help compensate.
Talented scorers sure, offensively they're up with anyone, but does that roster really strike you as one that can get a stop when it really needs it? |
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Nnamdi21
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Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| what made the heat great was their defensive scheme. Cavs on paper look weak defensively but do have younger legs. Not sure if they can replicate the Heat D but who knows. Lebron is always a good help defender. Hi man to man D is slacking tho nowdays. |
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krisobe
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LeBron, Varejao, Marion, Tristan, all good defenders IMO. Waiters is decent. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| krisobe wrote: | | LeBron, Varejao, Marion, Tristan, all good defenders IMO. Waiters is decent. |
If Waiters is a decent defender, then Irving is an all nba defender. Tristan? eh, not really, the other 3 i'd label as "doesn't really try anymore", "will miss half the season" and "has nothing left" |
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improper
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | krisobe wrote: | | LeBron, Varejao, Marion, Tristan, all good defenders IMO. Waiters is decent. |
If Waiters is a decent defender, then Irving is an all nba defender. Tristan? eh, not really, the other 3 i'd label as "doesn't really try anymore", "will miss half the season" and "has nothing left" |
Waiters is a better defender than Irving, who was easily one of the worst defenders in the league last year. By most metrics, Waiters ranks about average in defense. He's very good on the ball but struggles off of it, as do a lot of younger players. He was certainly significantly better than Irving was last year.
Also worth noting that Dellavedova is a plus defender as well. |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| that's not a great team but they are in the East so they should have no problem getting to the Finals. There really are no other contenders in that conference, maybe Chicago but until I see D.Rose play as his old self I can't count them in. Who else is there? Indiana is done, then who's left? Toronto?Miami? maybe Washington? I don't see any of those teams contending. |
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Kazaam
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Bottom line: Cavs, in the East, are title contenders. In the West, middle of the pack. |
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Jeggs
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Heat I think will be competitive along with Bulls. I'd like to see the Heat make the finals TBH. Would make Lebron seem lame. Heat will still have one of the best defensive teams so I think they could beat the cavs in the ECF unless the NBA rigs it. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Cavs will be very good. They'll have initial growing pains. As much as I hate how things transpired in Cavs, they have a really good squad.
Of course, they have 3 starters who are injury prone, and have the inevitable growing pains. But they'll be in the mix for the championship for the next 3-4 years.
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improper
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | that's not a great team but they are in the East so they should have no problem getting to the Finals. There really are no other contenders in that conference, maybe Chicago but until I see D.Rose play as his old self I can't count them in. Who else is there? Indiana is done, then who's left? Toronto?Miami? maybe Washington? I don't see any of those teams contending. |
I don't really understand the logic that they aren't a great team. They have two of the best ten players in the NBA and a young point guard who could reach that level himself in the next couple of years along with a deep bench mixed with young talent and veterans. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I think anywhere from 1st to 5th in the East. I give them little chance to win a title this season
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kray28_ wrote: | | That's a high expectations roster that looks really good on paper, but has a lot of hidden holes that no one is thinking about. |
Holes like Irving and Love's ability to stay on the floor and defend.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| improper wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | krisobe wrote: | | LeBron, Varejao, Marion, Tristan, all good defenders IMO. Waiters is decent. |
If Waiters is a decent defender, then Irving is an all nba defender. Tristan? eh, not really, the other 3 i'd label as "doesn't really try anymore", "will miss half the season" and "has nothing left" |
Waiters is a better defender than Irving, who was easily one of the worst defenders in the league last year. By most metrics, Waiters ranks about average in defense. He's very good on the ball but struggles off of it, as do a lot of younger players. He was certainly significantly better than Irving was last year.
Also worth noting that Dellavedova is a plus defender as well. |
Who?
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