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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
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 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Teaming up ala Lebron wade bosh in maimi wasn't considered in vogue a decade ago either. |
Sure it was. Karl Malone and Gary Payton say hi. |
I'm not talking about old ring chasing players who were a year or two from retirement. As I said Superstars teaming up in their primes AND taking less money to do it was not a thing 10 years ago. |
I never said superstars though. You did. I just said that not many players have come here for the specific reason to play with Kobe. Superstars or otherwise. MWP is the one example I can think of in the decade or so that he's been the man here. Other than that, nada. |
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Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Teaming up ala Lebron wade bosh in maimi wasn't considered in vogue a decade ago either. |
Sure it was. Karl Malone and Gary Payton say hi. |
I'm not talking about old ring chasing players who were a year or two from retirement. As I said Superstars teaming up in their primes AND taking less money to do it was not a thing 10 years ago. |
I never said superstars though. You did. I just said that not many players have come here for the specific reason to play with Kobe. Superstars or otherwise. MWP is the one example I can think of in the decade or so that he's been the man here. Other than that, nada. |
So what is your point then? Most players don't decide their free agency on whether they want to play with certain players. They decide based on who gives them the money they want and location. You are arguing a whole lot of nothing when you say nobody wants to play with Kobe because there is not a lot of historical precedence of players stating in free agency that I want to play with such and such player. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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^ I was responding to a comment by YoKi24 where he said:
| Quote: | | No, not really. There have been plenty of players who took a pay-cut to play with Bryant but nice try. |
I said there hadn't been any save maybe MWP. You're arguing with me and saying the same thing.
That's what happens when you butt in to an existing conversation without knowing the full context. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29286
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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OP misspelled his name. It's Cowturd.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | ^ I was responding to a comment by YoKi24 where he said:
| Quote: | | No, not really. There have been plenty of players who took a pay-cut to play with Bryant but nice try. |
I said there hadn't been any save maybe MWP. You're arguing with me and saying the same thing.
That's what happens when you butt in to an existing conversation without knowing the full context. |
My point still stands bro. If Kobe was 27 today I'm sure players would be more willing to take pay cuts to play with Kobe. Obviously that guy was wrong but right now today with former teams like the big 3 in miami taking paycuts to play together, players would take the opportunity to get payed less to play with Kobe. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | ^ I was responding to a comment by YoKi24 where he said:
| Quote: | | No, not really. There have been plenty of players who took a pay-cut to play with Bryant but nice try. |
I said there hadn't been any save maybe MWP. You're arguing with me and saying the same thing.
That's what happens when you butt in to an existing conversation without knowing the full context. |
My point still stands bro. If Kobe was 27 today I'm sure players would be more willing to take pay cuts to play with Kobe. Obviously that guy was wrong but right now today with former teams like the big 3 in miami taking paycuts to play together, players would take the opportunity to get payed less to play with Kobe. |
What point? That if in some hypothetical world Kobe was 27 today that you are really super sure people would take paycuts? Maybe. Maybe not. We can dream about it surely.
All we do know is that when he was 27, in real life, no one did. If you want to speculate on why go right ahead. But why bother with facts when we can dream! |
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thejet24
Star Player
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | ^ I was responding to a comment by YoKi24 where he said:
| Quote: | | No, not really. There have been plenty of players who took a pay-cut to play with Bryant but nice try. |
I said there hadn't been any save maybe MWP. You're arguing with me and saying the same thing.
That's what happens when you butt in to an existing conversation without knowing the full context. |
My point still stands bro. If Kobe was 27 today I'm sure players would be more willing to take pay cuts to play with Kobe. Obviously that guy was wrong but right now today with former teams like the big 3 in miami taking paycuts to play together, players would take the opportunity to get payed less to play with Kobe. |
I doubt the thought of taking less to compete has ever crossed Kobe's mind.
Not because he wants his money, but because he does not think he needs to do so in order to compete.
It's just the way he's build.
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2008-2010 Finals. 28.9 PTS 6.1 REB 5.4 AST 2.1 STLs |
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MickMgl
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | MickMgl wrote: | | I Love LA wrote: | | Kobe's job is to play basketball. The salesman is Mitch and Jim. Cowherd is just running his mouth. |
That's the point. The salesmen are Mitch and Jim, and they are poor salesmen. Lebron didn't need to be a salesman in Miami, because they have Riley. Jordan didn't need to be a salesman in Chicago, because they had Jackson. The Lakers have no salesman. |
So what happened in Miami? Still have Riley. And who did Jordan recruit again? Or Jackson? |
Well, Riley got them there, and it worked for as long as it did, and the other two are still there in large part because of Riley. Lebron has a wanderlust.
As for Chicago, I'm not saying Jordan recruited anybody. |
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MickMgl
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | MickMgl wrote: | | I Love LA wrote: | | Kobe's job is to play basketball. The salesman is Mitch and Jim. Cowherd is just running his mouth. |
That's the point. The salesmen are Mitch and Jim, and they are poor salesmen. Lebron didn't need to be a salesman in Miami, because they have Riley. Jordan didn't need to be a salesman in Chicago, because they had Jackson. The Lakers have no salesman. |
So what happened in Miami? Still have Riley. And who did Jordan recruit again? Or Jackson? |
You may have missed this - Riley signed a multiple time all star in Deng to replace LBJ right away. Chris Bosh was on his way to Houston and Riley got him to stay. Phil re-signed Melo. Phil didn't have any FA money to play with.
lakers lost Dwight in FA, couldn't sign a single note worthy impact player via FA despite having 30 m in cap space. Pau Gasol took almost half of what LA was offering him. At some point 24, you have to stop throwing rocks at the windows of Phil, Riley etc. just to make your case for the Lakers front office. |
How long did it take Riley to build a winner in Miami? |
He signed on as president & head coach of the Heat in September 1995, the summer after a 32-50 season. They were 42-40 the following year, and 61-21 in his second season. So the answer is 1-2 years.
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I wouldn't trade rosters and obligations with the Heat or Knicks.
Or front offices. |
To each his own. |
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MickMgl
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Jim Jackson, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Matt Barnes, Josh McRoberts, Jodie Meeks, to name some. No superstars, but then, how much superstar free agent movement is there? Not much. In any case, no shortage of players who willingly came to play with Kobe, even taking less money (as reported at the time). |
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cirehawk
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5525
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | cirehawk wrote: |
Okay, if you say so. So I'll tout my "unverifiable" creds. As someone who has given (and participated in) many sales meetings and interviews, I think I'm qualified to comment on it as well. I can't tell you how many times someone who was considered a "weaker" candidate has blown us away in the actual interview/presentation. So no matter how you feel the meeting was structured, you don't know how it actually went. Dwight has established a track record. He was wishy washy with Orlando, and he wanted no part of us. I have not doubt he will want out of Houston at some point. As much as I wanted Dwight a few years ago, his act has soured me on him. |
Your feelings on Dwight are not relevant, and please don't try selling me on the concept that interviews are quite the same as a group presentations at a close. The power dynamics are polar opposites, so as an analog it really doesn't wash.
You never, ever present your weaknesses at a close. You can acknowledge your weaknesses, but you do not put them on parade before the prospect. Having D'Antoni in there was beyond stupid, Dwight absolutely hated him and yet he was invited to speak. Nash and Dwight really went at it on the floor repeatedly when Nash was healthy, as Nash didn't feed Dwight in the post and Nash couldn't defend worth a damn. The troubles with Kobe were well-documented at well, and much of it stemmed from Dwight's deep insecurities. As a sales pro, you have to stay in close communication with your prospect. All indications are that the Lakers did not understand Dwight, perhaps because they were either poor at communicating or perhaps just poor at sales. Not only was communication essential to structure the right closing statement, it was necessary to determine whether Dwight could be closed at all. If he couldn't be closed, then they damn well should have traded him.
Now based on your experience at conducting interviews, tell me how communication wasn't necessary, and tell he me why it was a great idea to parade your weaknesses during the close. |
My feelings on Dwight are relevant because we're talking about Dwight. And I'm not trying to sell you on anything. Have done interviews AND sales. The point of all this was you don't know how the actual sales meeting went, so any comments on it (yours AND mine) are just opinion.
But I'll address some of your points. I'll start with Nash. From all accounts a great guy. A 2-time MVP and probably a HOFer. He and Dwight had issues? hmmmm... You bring up troubles with Kobe. Yeah, he's tough to deal with but he's a 5 time champion and HOFer (one of the best ever). He had troubles with Dwight too? Hmm... I doubt Dwight will be a HOFer, and he has maneuvered his way out of 2 organizations. He has no real post moves and thinks he should be a number one option. I'll throw in something unrelated. Shaq was always on D12 on the TNT broadcasts. Went so far as to say he thought Robin (or Brooke) Lopez was better.
I say all that to say this. Maybe the problem wasn't the people they brought in. Maybe the problem was Dwight! Where I will agree with you is that they should have done a better job anticipating he probably wouldn't re-sign, and traded him. They definitely botched that. |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23903
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| cirehawk wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | cirehawk wrote: |
Okay, if you say so. So I'll tout my "unverifiable" creds. As someone who has given (and participated in) many sales meetings and interviews, I think I'm qualified to comment on it as well. I can't tell you how many times someone who was considered a "weaker" candidate has blown us away in the actual interview/presentation. So no matter how you feel the meeting was structured, you don't know how it actually went. Dwight has established a track record. He was wishy washy with Orlando, and he wanted no part of us. I have not doubt he will want out of Houston at some point. As much as I wanted Dwight a few years ago, his act has soured me on him. |
Your feelings on Dwight are not relevant, and please don't try selling me on the concept that interviews are quite the same as a group presentations at a close. The power dynamics are polar opposites, so as an analog it really doesn't wash.
You never, ever present your weaknesses at a close. You can acknowledge your weaknesses, but you do not put them on parade before the prospect. Having D'Antoni in there was beyond stupid, Dwight absolutely hated him and yet he was invited to speak. Nash and Dwight really went at it on the floor repeatedly when Nash was healthy, as Nash didn't feed Dwight in the post and Nash couldn't defend worth a damn. The troubles with Kobe were well-documented at well, and much of it stemmed from Dwight's deep insecurities. As a sales pro, you have to stay in close communication with your prospect. All indications are that the Lakers did not understand Dwight, perhaps because they were either poor at communicating or perhaps just poor at sales. Not only was communication essential to structure the right closing statement, it was necessary to determine whether Dwight could be closed at all. If he couldn't be closed, then they damn well should have traded him.
Now based on your experience at conducting interviews, tell me how communication wasn't necessary, and tell he me why it was a great idea to parade your weaknesses during the close. |
My feelings on Dwight are relevant because we're talking about Dwight. And I'm not trying to sell you on anything. Have done interviews AND sales. The point of all this was you don't know how the actual sales meeting went, so any comments on it (yours AND mine) are just opinion.
But I'll address some of your points. I'll start with Nash. From all accounts a great guy. A 2-time MVP and probably a HOFer. He and Dwight had issues? hmmmm... You bring up troubles with Kobe. Yeah, he's tough to deal with but he's a 5 time champion and HOFer (one of the best ever). He had troubles with Dwight too? Hmm... I doubt Dwight will be a HOFer, and he has maneuvered his way out of 2 organizations. He has no real post moves and thinks he should be a number one option. I'll throw in something unrelated. Shaq was always on D12 on the TNT broadcasts. Went so far as to say he thought Robin (or Brooke) Lopez was better.
I say all that to say this. Maybe the problem wasn't the people they brought in. Maybe the problem was Dwight! Where I will agree with you is that they should have done a better job anticipating he probably wouldn't re-sign, and traded him. They definitely botched that. |
Dwight is a no doubt hall of famer. He could retire right now and get in. 8 time all star, 3 time dpoy, one of the greatest rebounders of alltime, etc.
The rumors were well known about Dwight and LA. He was less than thrilled about the comments about being Kobe's Tyson Chandler and didnt want to be in Kobe's shadow long term. Still, taking a chance on him proved to be a much better idea than giving Bynum the max extension. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| MickMgl wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Jim Jackson, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Matt Barnes, Josh McRoberts, Jodie Meeks, to name some. No superstars, but then, how much superstar free agent movement is there? Not much. In any case, no shortage of players who willingly came to play with Kobe, even taking less money (as reported at the time). |
LOL. Derek Fisher is a good one. None of the other guys came here to play with Kobe. They may have come here and played with Kobe but that is different. Did you misunderstand the question or just make that up about Jodie Meeks and others coming here primarily to play with Kobe? |
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cirehawk
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5525
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | cirehawk wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | cirehawk wrote: |
Okay, if you say so. So I'll tout my "unverifiable" creds. As someone who has given (and participated in) many sales meetings and interviews, I think I'm qualified to comment on it as well. I can't tell you how many times someone who was considered a "weaker" candidate has blown us away in the actual interview/presentation. So no matter how you feel the meeting was structured, you don't know how it actually went. Dwight has established a track record. He was wishy washy with Orlando, and he wanted no part of us. I have not doubt he will want out of Houston at some point. As much as I wanted Dwight a few years ago, his act has soured me on him. |
Your feelings on Dwight are not relevant, and please don't try selling me on the concept that interviews are quite the same as a group presentations at a close. The power dynamics are polar opposites, so as an analog it really doesn't wash.
You never, ever present your weaknesses at a close. You can acknowledge your weaknesses, but you do not put them on parade before the prospect. Having D'Antoni in there was beyond stupid, Dwight absolutely hated him and yet he was invited to speak. Nash and Dwight really went at it on the floor repeatedly when Nash was healthy, as Nash didn't feed Dwight in the post and Nash couldn't defend worth a damn. The troubles with Kobe were well-documented at well, and much of it stemmed from Dwight's deep insecurities. As a sales pro, you have to stay in close communication with your prospect. All indications are that the Lakers did not understand Dwight, perhaps because they were either poor at communicating or perhaps just poor at sales. Not only was communication essential to structure the right closing statement, it was necessary to determine whether Dwight could be closed at all. If he couldn't be closed, then they damn well should have traded him.
Now based on your experience at conducting interviews, tell me how communication wasn't necessary, and tell he me why it was a great idea to parade your weaknesses during the close. |
My feelings on Dwight are relevant because we're talking about Dwight. And I'm not trying to sell you on anything. Have done interviews AND sales. The point of all this was you don't know how the actual sales meeting went, so any comments on it (yours AND mine) are just opinion.
But I'll address some of your points. I'll start with Nash. From all accounts a great guy. A 2-time MVP and probably a HOFer. He and Dwight had issues? hmmmm... You bring up troubles with Kobe. Yeah, he's tough to deal with but he's a 5 time champion and HOFer (one of the best ever). He had troubles with Dwight too? Hmm... I doubt Dwight will be a HOFer, and he has maneuvered his way out of 2 organizations. He has no real post moves and thinks he should be a number one option. I'll throw in something unrelated. Shaq was always on D12 on the TNT broadcasts. Went so far as to say he thought Robin (or Brooke) Lopez was better.
I say all that to say this. Maybe the problem wasn't the people they brought in. Maybe the problem was Dwight! Where I will agree with you is that they should have done a better job anticipating he probably wouldn't re-sign, and traded him. They definitely botched that. |
Dwight is a no doubt hall of famer. He could retire right now and get in. 8 time all star, 3 time dpoy, one of the greatest rebounders of alltime, etc.
The rumors were well known about Dwight and LA. He was less than thrilled about the comments about being Kobe's Tyson Chandler and didnt want to be in Kobe's shadow long term. Still, taking a chance on him proved to be a much better idea than giving Bynum the max extension. |
Well we'll just have to disagree about him being a "no-doubt" hall of famer. He didn't want to be in Kobe's shadow (or be his Tyson Chandler), so he goes to be in Bin-Harden's shadow? I really don't think Dwight has the skill set to be a #1 option, so he will always be in someone's shadow. |
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briedfox
Sixth Man
Joined: 30 Oct 2013
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | MickMgl wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Jim Jackson, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Matt Barnes, Josh McRoberts, Jodie Meeks, to name some. No superstars, but then, how much superstar free agent movement is there? Not much. In any case, no shortage of players who willingly came to play with Kobe, even taking less money (as reported at the time). |
LOL. Derek Fisher is a good one. None of the other guys came here to play with Kobe. They may have come here and played with Kobe but that is different. Did you misunderstand the question or just make that up about Jodie Meeks and others coming here primarily to play with Kobe? |
Why does it matter?
Why are you so obsessed by going into every Kobe thread and downplaying anytime anyone has something positive to say about Kobe. Do you really hate the guy that much? I have just never seen anyone so obsessed as you with being a Kobe detractor, especially from a so-called Laker fan. |
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MickMgl
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | MickMgl wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Jim Jackson, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Matt Barnes, Josh McRoberts, Jodie Meeks, to name some. No superstars, but then, how much superstar free agent movement is there? Not much. In any case, no shortage of players who willingly came to play with Kobe, even taking less money (as reported at the time). |
LOL. Derek Fisher is a good one. None of the other guys came here to play with Kobe. They may have come here and played with Kobe but that is different. Did you misunderstand the question or just make that up about Jodie Meeks and others coming here primarily to play with Kobe? |
Matt Barnes. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Melo saying it was always NY/CHI
Lakers never stood a chance. Nice to know all that time spent on a free agent who was always going to stay with NY or go to Chicago.
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS -- Carmelo Anthony said it was not the money, but instead his confidence in Phil Jackson and his belief that the Knicks "aren't that far away from contending for an NBA title" why he opted to remain in New York instead of signing with the Chicago Bulls.
"I want to win. I don't care about the money," Anthony told ESPN.com. "I believe Phil will do what he has to do to take care of that."
"I don't think we're that far away," he added. "People use 'rebuilding' too loosely." |
Huge faith there shown by Melo in Phil Jackson. Maybe Jackson's presence makes no difference as a Laker, but I'm skeptical on that. Melo wouldn't have re-signed with NY unless Dolan made a major change which was the Phil move.
Now whether Melo is worth all that money is another thing all together. I'm not bummed Melo chose NY. I didn't want him for that type of money. However seems like a giant waste of time to recruit a guy who had no real interest in coming. You don't want to start getting a rep of losing FAs again and again.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11263468
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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laker4life
Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Melo saying it was always NY/CHI
Lakers never stood a chance. Nice to know all that time spent on a free agent who was always going to stay with NY or go to Chicago.
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS -- Carmelo Anthony said it was not the money, but instead his confidence in Phil Jackson and his belief that the Knicks "aren't that far away from contending for an NBA title" why he opted to remain in New York instead of signing with the Chicago Bulls.
"I want to win. I don't care about the money," Anthony told ESPN.com. "I believe Phil will do what he has to do to take care of that."
"I don't think we're that far away," he added. "People use 'rebuilding' too loosely." |
Huge faith there shown by Melo in Phil Jackson.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11263468 |
Too bad our Laker FO was not smart enough to realize that. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| cirehawk wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | cirehawk wrote: |
Okay, if you say so. So I'll tout my "unverifiable" creds. As someone who has given (and participated in) many sales meetings and interviews, I think I'm qualified to comment on it as well. I can't tell you how many times someone who was considered a "weaker" candidate has blown us away in the actual interview/presentation. So no matter how you feel the meeting was structured, you don't know how it actually went. Dwight has established a track record. He was wishy washy with Orlando, and he wanted no part of us. I have not doubt he will want out of Houston at some point. As much as I wanted Dwight a few years ago, his act has soured me on him. |
Your feelings on Dwight are not relevant, and please don't try selling me on the concept that interviews are quite the same as a group presentations at a close. The power dynamics are polar opposites, so as an analog it really doesn't wash.
You never, ever present your weaknesses at a close. You can acknowledge your weaknesses, but you do not put them on parade before the prospect. Having D'Antoni in there was beyond stupid, Dwight absolutely hated him and yet he was invited to speak. Nash and Dwight really went at it on the floor repeatedly when Nash was healthy, as Nash didn't feed Dwight in the post and Nash couldn't defend worth a damn. The troubles with Kobe were well-documented at well, and much of it stemmed from Dwight's deep insecurities. As a sales pro, you have to stay in close communication with your prospect. All indications are that the Lakers did not understand Dwight, perhaps because they were either poor at communicating or perhaps just poor at sales. Not only was communication essential to structure the right closing statement, it was necessary to determine whether Dwight could be closed at all. If he couldn't be closed, then they damn well should have traded him.
Now based on your experience at conducting interviews, tell me how communication wasn't necessary, and tell he me why it was a great idea to parade your weaknesses during the close. |
My feelings on Dwight are relevant because we're talking about Dwight. And I'm not trying to sell you on anything. Have done interviews AND sales. The point of all this was you don't know how the actual sales meeting went, so any comments on it (yours AND mine) are just opinion.
But I'll address some of your points. I'll start with Nash. From all accounts a great guy. A 2-time MVP and probably a HOFer. He and Dwight had issues? hmmmm... You bring up troubles with Kobe. Yeah, he's tough to deal with but he's a 5 time champion and HOFer (one of the best ever). He had troubles with Dwight too? Hmm... I doubt Dwight will be a HOFer, and he has maneuvered his way out of 2 organizations. He has no real post moves and thinks he should be a number one option. I'll throw in something unrelated. Shaq was always on D12 on the TNT broadcasts. Went so far as to say he thought Robin (or Brooke) Lopez was better.
I say all that to say this. Maybe the problem wasn't the people they brought in. Maybe the problem was Dwight! Where I will agree with you is that they should have done a better job anticipating he probably wouldn't re-sign, and traded him. They definitely botched that. |
Then I have to question your sales ability. You needn't regurgitate Nash's resume, which isn't relevant to closing Dwight. Dwight did not like Nash, and he hated D'Antoni. He obviously found Kobe to be a major irritant. You do not invite these three to a closing with Dwight. To suggest other is either disingenuous or weirdly naive for someone who claims to have done sales. |
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LAII
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| MickMgl wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Jim Jackson, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Matt Barnes, Josh McRoberts, Jodie Meeks, to name some. No superstars, but then, how much superstar free agent movement is there? Not much. In any case, no shortage of players who willingly came to play with Kobe, even taking less money (as reported at the time). |
Ron Artest was a bona fide star when he came for less money. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Artest was never a bonafide star.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Melo saying it was always NY/CHI
Lakers never stood a chance. Nice to know all that time spent on a free agent who was always going to stay with NY or go to Chicago.
| Quote: | LAS VEGAS -- Carmelo Anthony said it was not the money, but instead his confidence in Phil Jackson and his belief that the Knicks "aren't that far away from contending for an NBA title" why he opted to remain in New York instead of signing with the Chicago Bulls.
"I want to win. I don't care about the money," Anthony told ESPN.com. "I believe Phil will do what he has to do to take care of that."
"I don't think we're that far away," he added. "People use 'rebuilding' too loosely." |
Huge faith there shown by Melo in Phil Jackson.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11263468 |
Too bad our Laker FO was not smart enough to realize that. |
Well in the specific case of Carmelo, I'm glad we didn't have a closer. With the money that Carmelo sought and the state of the roster, Carmelo wasn't a fit. Signing him would have been "winner's curse". |
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Excuse me while I jump in. While no one seems to be coming right out and saying it, If I understand correctly the debate here seems to be whether or not Kobe is a detriment when it comes to recruiting top name free agents. Personally I think this is b.s. If that were the case how is it that every interview I've seen with our new team members gush about how excited they are to be playing with Kobe?
You all taking Smush Parker a little too seriously.
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: |
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The fact that Melo said "it's not about the money" let's you know that whole quote falls into "Love the one you're with".
As for rebuilding. No, they aren't rebuilding, just mediocre and probably will be for the foreseeable future.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| briedfox wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | MickMgl wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I can think of MWP. That's it. Who else? Wesley Johnson? Come on. Dwight said no. Heck, even Pau rejected the Lakers twice.
Fwiw, I'm not saying players wouldn't play with Kobe. I'm saying they don't seem to specifically want to come here to play with him. Other than MWP who didn't really take a paycut considering he was amnestied which he wouldn't have been if there was great value there. |
This is pretty idiotic. As I said in the post above, they are not rushing to play with kobe because he's old and out of his prime. You really think a prime 27 year old kobe wouldn't have all star players clamoring to play with him? |
Shaq left a decade ago. Who came here specifically to play with Kobe in the last 10 years? MWP? Ok. That it? In 10 years? Kobe wasn't old a decade ago. |
Jim Jackson, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Matt Barnes, Josh McRoberts, Jodie Meeks, to name some. No superstars, but then, how much superstar free agent movement is there? Not much. In any case, no shortage of players who willingly came to play with Kobe, even taking less money (as reported at the time). |
LOL. Derek Fisher is a good one. None of the other guys came here to play with Kobe. They may have come here and played with Kobe but that is different. Did you misunderstand the question or just make that up about Jodie Meeks and others coming here primarily to play with Kobe? |
Why does it matter?
Why are you so obsessed by going into every Kobe thread and downplaying anytime anyone has something positive to say about Kobe. Do you really hate the guy that much? I have just never seen anyone so obsessed as you with being a Kobe detractor, especially from a so-called Laker fan. |
Hate? Detractor? I think you may be too emotionally vested here.
I don't hate Kobe nor do I dislike him. It's a fallacy to assume that because I don't worship him, that then, the only other option is to hate him. Some people just feel he is nothing more than a really good basketball player playing for my favorite team.
Just because I wish he'd pass more (a lot more in the later years), trust his teammates more, wanted money over rings less, doesn't mean I don't think he's a great player.
It's not about like or hate the guy. I don't really know Kobe. I care only for what he contributes (positive or negative) to the Laker franchise. To say things like Kobe isn't as effective now as he was when he was 27-28 years old is either true or false. It's not love or hate. The opinion that Kobe should pass more is either true or false. Not love or hate. Make sense? |
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