Disappointing News: Tony Dungy is a Spineless Tool
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Moses
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:55 pm    Post subject:

poppajons wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
poppajons wrote:
The personal attacks need to stop. Being from a Christian background, I do believe what the bible teaches and if someone attacks me because of it, that is their perogative.

I think it is universally known that Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. The issue here is people fall into one of two categories: Those that believe homosexuality is a choice or those that believe it is uncontrollable.

Regardless, Christians put too much emphasis on homosexuality itself and not on Sam, the person. Christians are called to love people, and that means everyone.

I apologize if this sounds preachy, that is not my intention.


I appreciate what you're saying... People are judging Sam and that is not Christian like.. True?


Yes, very true.
actually its true for some and not for all.

see what is this thing we call"judging people"
who even knows what that means?
can you define that phrase as its defined in the bible?

people throw that phrase around all the time. some are correct when they say people are judging others. but at the same time its not always judging thats going on. but the reason others dont like to HEAR what these people have to say is because some people refuse to go ALONG with that idea. there's a difference.

if the book, says all sin is sin.
if the book says pre-marital sex is a sin
if the book says having a homosexual relationship is a sin
then pre-marital sex = homosexuality = a sin
if the book says we should do what we can to correct our sins even though being sinful is a natural temptation. should we not do our best to correct said sins?

if the book says dont judge. but also says am i my brothers keeper. how can i approach my brother(fellow citizen/fellow christian/ friend/family member) about his or her sin if he/she does not see what he/she is doing is a sin? what should I do per the book? should i turn a blind eye and act like i dont see what i see? some say <YES. its non of your business.
Others say dont judge me.

Well here's the thing. its how i handle the situation will tell you if i judged you or if i just brought it up to you out of love.

some even christians like to say"god is love" and leave it at that. as if there are no rights and wrongs. as if there are no rules and regs. as if we can all just live our life like whatever and god would be just fine with that. thats not what that bible says now is it? No.

at what point can you address your brother if he has not addressed his sinful ways himself? and what point are you going to far and then Judging him?

at what point do you address what your brother is doing to the masses because he's also addressing what he's doing to the masses as if what he's doing is not a sin. therefore CONFUSING those that do not yet understand(children in the flesh and children in the spiritual since)

what the OP forgot when he made that statement about dungy is this.

If you know a person is a "man of god" so they say. and lets say you see them as a stand up guy/gal. The reason Tony D doesnt curse in the locker room is because of christ. at least so he says. no telling what dungy is doing behind closed doors. so lets just assume for arguments sake what he says is legit.

if you really like dungy. understand you cant take away the God fearing man part of dungy and still come up with the same man you like.

if he's a tool today. he was a tool the other day pre-sam.

that goes for anyone you look up to or think is a stand up person but they say they are christians and truly believe in the bible. part of the reason they are stand up. is because of their morals. their morals are coming from that book you hate or dont agree with. it say in that book that homosexuality is a sin. So dont even ask a bible lover the question. because you should already have know where they stand based on that book.

If dungy had a completely different stance on homosexuality. You(the fan of dungy the stand up guy) should no longer be a fan of dungy. because that would mean he will bend what he believes in just so he can fit in with the masses. people do this all the time. They change with the wind. Which means they are not grounded on principles. Remember. you liked dungy because you thought he was grounded on principles. those principles were biblical principles. So either hate him from the start, or love him because he's keeping it real with you when he says per the book he has loved and has made him the standup guy he is. he does not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. you can disagree with the book itself. but at least tell yourself "i cant be mad at dungy for standing his grown on his principles."

and for those that love to compare apples to crackers. with homosexuality and race relations.

just know this. there is no biblical principle that says intentionally disenfranchise people of color and make sure all the other people are then given a higher status. So not the same at all
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:01 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
poppajons wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
poppajons wrote:
The personal attacks need to stop. Being from a Christian background, I do believe what the bible teaches and if someone attacks me because of it, that is their perogative.

I think it is universally known that Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. The issue here is people fall into one of two categories: Those that believe homosexuality is a choice or those that believe it is uncontrollable.

Regardless, Christians put too much emphasis on homosexuality itself and not on Sam, the person. Christians are called to love people, and that means everyone.

I apologize if this sounds preachy, that is not my intention.


I appreciate what you're saying... People are judging Sam and that is not Christian like.. True?


Yes, very true.
actually its true for some and not for all.

see what is this thing we call"judging people"
who even knows what that means?
can you define that phrase as its defined in the bible?

people throw that phrase around all the time. some are correct when they say people are judging others. but at the same time its not always judging thats going on. but the reason others dont like to HEAR what these people have to say is because some people refuse to go ALONG with that idea. there's a difference.

if the book, says all sin is sin.
if the book says pre-marital sex is a sin
if the book says having a homosexual relationship is a sin
then pre-marital sex = homosexuality = a sin
if the book says we should do what we can to correct our sins even though being sinful is a natural temptation. should we not do our best to correct said sins?

if the book says dont judge. but also says am i my brothers keeper. how can i approach my brother(fellow citizen/fellow christian/ friend/family member) about his or her sin if he/she does not see what he/she is doing is a sin? what should I do per the book? should i turn a blind eye and act like i dont see what i see? some say <YES. its non of your business.
Others say dont judge me.

Well here's the thing. its how i handle the situation will tell you if i judged you or if i just brought it up to you out of love.

some even christians like to say"god is love" and leave it at that. as if there are no rights and wrongs. as if there are no rules and regs. as if we can all just live our life like whatever and god would be just fine with that. thats not what that bible says now is it? No.

at what point can you address your brother if he has not addressed his sinful ways himself? and what point are you going to far and then Judging him?

at what point do you address what your brother is doing to the masses because he's also addressing what he's doing to the masses as if what he's doing is not a sin. therefore CONFUSING those that do not yet understand(children in the flesh and children in the spiritual since)

what the OP forgot when he made that statement about dungy is this.

If you know a person is a "man of god" so they say. and lets say you see them as a stand up guy/gal. The reason Tony D doesnt curse in the locker room is because of christ. at least so he says. no telling what dungy is doing behind closed doors. so lets just assume for arguments sake what he says is legit.

if you really like dungy. understand you cant take away the God fearing man part of dungy and still come up with the same man you like.

if he's a tool today. he was a tool the other day pre-sam.

that goes for anyone you look up to or think is a stand up person but they say they are christians and truly believe in the bible. part of the reason they are stand up. is because of their morals. their morals are coming from that book you hate or dont agree with. it say in that book that homosexuality is a sin. So dont even ask a bible lover the question. because you should already have know where they stand based on that book.

If dungy had a completely different stance on homosexuality. You(the fan of dungy the stand up guy) should no longer be a fan of dungy. because that would mean he will bend what he believes in just so he can fit in with the masses. people do this all the time. They change with the wind. Which means they are not grounded on principles. Remember. you liked dungy because you thought he was grounded on principles. those principles were biblical principles. So either hate him from the start, or love him because he's keeping it real with you when he says per the book he has loved and has made him the standup guy he is. he does not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. you can disagree with the book itself. but at least tell yourself "i cant be mad at dungy for standing his grown on his principles."

and for those that love to compare apples to crackers. with homosexuality and race relations.

just know this. there is no biblical principle that says intentionally disenfranchise people of color and make sure all the other people are then given a higher status. So not the same at all


and this my friends, is why this topic will be locked, and why most of us have gone away from religion.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:


and for those that love to compare apples to crackers. with homosexuality and race relations.

just know this. there is no biblical principle that says intentionally disenfranchise people of color and make sure all the other people are then given a higher status. So not the same at all


So disenfranchising homosexuals = okay, because bible makes the provision.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
poppajons wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
poppajons wrote:
The personal attacks need to stop. Being from a Christian background, I do believe what the bible teaches and if someone attacks me because of it, that is their perogative.

I think it is universally known that Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. The issue here is people fall into one of two categories: Those that believe homosexuality is a choice or those that believe it is uncontrollable.

Regardless, Christians put too much emphasis on homosexuality itself and not on Sam, the person. Christians are called to love people, and that means everyone.

I apologize if this sounds preachy, that is not my intention.


I appreciate what you're saying... People are judging Sam and that is not Christian like.. True?


Yes, very true.
actually its true for some and not for all.

see what is this thing we call"judging people"
who even knows what that means?
can you define that phrase as its defined in the bible?

people throw that phrase around all the time. some are correct when they say people are judging others. but at the same time its not always judging thats going on. but the reason others dont like to HEAR what these people have to say is because some people refuse to go ALONG with that idea. there's a difference.

if the book, says all sin is sin.
if the book says pre-marital sex is a sin
if the book says having a homosexual relationship is a sin
then pre-marital sex = homosexuality = a sin
if the book says we should do what we can to correct our sins even though being sinful is a natural temptation. should we not do our best to correct said sins?

if the book says dont judge. but also says am i my brothers keeper. how can i approach my brother(fellow citizen/fellow christian/ friend/family member) about his or her sin if he/she does not see what he/she is doing is a sin? what should I do per the book? should i turn a blind eye and act like i dont see what i see? some say <YES. its non of your business.
Others say dont judge me.

Well here's the thing. its how i handle the situation will tell you if i judged you or if i just brought it up to you out of love.

some even christians like to say"god is love" and leave it at that. as if there are no rights and wrongs. as if there are no rules and regs. as if we can all just live our life like whatever and god would be just fine with that. thats not what that bible says now is it? No.

at what point can you address your brother if he has not addressed his sinful ways himself? and what point are you going to far and then Judging him?

at what point do you address what your brother is doing to the masses because he's also addressing what he's doing to the masses as if what he's doing is not a sin. therefore CONFUSING those that do not yet understand(children in the flesh and children in the spiritual since)

what the OP forgot when he made that statement about dungy is this.

If you know a person is a "man of god" so they say. and lets say you see them as a stand up guy/gal. The reason Tony D doesnt curse in the locker room is because of christ. at least so he says. no telling what dungy is doing behind closed doors. so lets just assume for arguments sake what he says is legit.

if you really like dungy. understand you cant take away the God fearing man part of dungy and still come up with the same man you like.

if he's a tool today. he was a tool the other day pre-sam.

that goes for anyone you look up to or think is a stand up person but they say they are christians and truly believe in the bible. part of the reason they are stand up. is because of their morals. their morals are coming from that book you hate or dont agree with. it say in that book that homosexuality is a sin. So dont even ask a bible lover the question. because you should already have know where they stand based on that book.

If dungy had a completely different stance on homosexuality. You(the fan of dungy the stand up guy) should no longer be a fan of dungy. because that would mean he will bend what he believes in just so he can fit in with the masses. people do this all the time. They change with the wind. Which means they are not grounded on principles. Remember. you liked dungy because you thought he was grounded on principles. those principles were biblical principles. So either hate him from the start, or love him because he's keeping it real with you when he says per the book he has loved and has made him the standup guy he is. he does not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. you can disagree with the book itself. but at least tell yourself "i cant be mad at dungy for standing his grown on his principles."

and for those that love to compare apples to crackers. with homosexuality and race relations.

just know this. there is no biblical principle that says intentionally disenfranchise people of color and make sure all the other people are then given a higher status. So not the same at all


and this my friends, is why this topic will be locked, and why most of us have gone away from religion.
if thats why you ran away from religion. you didnt truly understand what you were involved in to begin with. odds are you never really understood it. or if you did, you made a conscious choice. "this is too difficult to deal with. so i'll pass."
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
postandpivot wrote:


and for those that love to compare apples to crackers. with homosexuality and race relations.

just know this. there is no biblical principle that says intentionally disenfranchise people of color and make sure all the other people are then given a higher status. So not the same at all


So disenfranchising homosexuals = okay, because bible makes the provision.

where's the disenfranchisement?

i would never agree with sam not being able to play football if he's good enough. just like i didnt agree with teebow once we all realized he sucked ... being a starter on someone's team in front of a more deserving player.

if you're good enough. play on.

if you qualify for that position or are a great candidate. give him/her the job.

here's the thing again. why do i even need to know your sexual preference?

i dont check off "straight" when i apply
because there's no need.

just hire me or not based on my abilities.

the only time my lifestyle should interfere with my job status is like i said above. if a christian is trying to work in a muslim bookstore(selling relgious books). and vice versa. when a homosexual is attempting to work at a church or some christian establishment that promotes christianity(not some eatery..) and he/she isnt making attempts to not live that lifestyle. just the same way i shouldnt be working at a christian bookstore if i'm pasting on facebook how many chicks i smashed last weekend. or all lthe drugs i just did two days ago.

but if i'm working at an eatery. that stuff shouldnt matter. food is promoting God. book christian books are.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject:

I swore I wouldn't come back to off topic, but I happen to have a strong opinion on this subject. Someone very near and dear to me is directly affected. So, before PnP gets this locked up...

To me the solution is to take marriage out of the conversation. Make all of our unions civil unions. If I choose to adorn my civil contract with a church ceremony, that is between me, my partner, my church, and my god.
The root problem is we are cloaking a civil contract in religious garb. Marriage is religious. The union is a civil contract.
Separate the two and I think they both become clearer and stronger.

If you object to my idea, my first question would be what it is about a theocracy that appeals to you?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
poppajons wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
poppajons wrote:
The personal attacks need to stop. Being from a Christian background, I do believe what the bible teaches and if someone attacks me because of it, that is their perogative.

I think it is universally known that Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. The issue here is people fall into one of two categories: Those that believe homosexuality is a choice or those that believe it is uncontrollable.

Regardless, Christians put too much emphasis on homosexuality itself and not on Sam, the person. Christians are called to love people, and that means everyone.

I apologize if this sounds preachy, that is not my intention.


I appreciate what you're saying... People are judging Sam and that is not Christian like.. True?


Yes, very true.
actually its true for some and not for all.

see what is this thing we call"judging people"
who even knows what that means?
can you define that phrase as its defined in the bible?

people throw that phrase around all the time. some are correct when they say people are judging others. but at the same time its not always judging thats going on. but the reason others dont like to HEAR what these people have to say is because some people refuse to go ALONG with that idea. there's a difference.

if the book, says all sin is sin.
if the book says pre-marital sex is a sin
if the book says having a homosexual relationship is a sin
then pre-marital sex = homosexuality = a sin
if the book says we should do what we can to correct our sins even though being sinful is a natural temptation. should we not do our best to correct said sins?

if the book says dont judge. but also says am i my brothers keeper. how can i approach my brother(fellow citizen/fellow christian/ friend/family member) about his or her sin if he/she does not see what he/she is doing is a sin? what should I do per the book? should i turn a blind eye and act like i dont see what i see? some say <YES. its non of your business.
Others say dont judge me.

Well here's the thing. its how i handle the situation will tell you if i judged you or if i just brought it up to you out of love.

some even christians like to say"god is love" and leave it at that. as if there are no rights and wrongs. as if there are no rules and regs. as if we can all just live our life like whatever and god would be just fine with that. thats not what that bible says now is it? No.

at what point can you address your brother if he has not addressed his sinful ways himself? and what point are you going to far and then Judging him?

at what point do you address what your brother is doing to the masses because he's also addressing what he's doing to the masses as if what he's doing is not a sin. therefore CONFUSING those that do not yet understand(children in the flesh and children in the spiritual since)

what the OP forgot when he made that statement about dungy is this.

If you know a person is a "man of god" so they say. and lets say you see them as a stand up guy/gal. The reason Tony D doesnt curse in the locker room is because of christ. at least so he says. no telling what dungy is doing behind closed doors. so lets just assume for arguments sake what he says is legit.

if you really like dungy. understand you cant take away the God fearing man part of dungy and still come up with the same man you like.

if he's a tool today. he was a tool the other day pre-sam.

that goes for anyone you look up to or think is a stand up person but they say they are christians and truly believe in the bible. part of the reason they are stand up. is because of their morals. their morals are coming from that book you hate or dont agree with. it say in that book that homosexuality is a sin. So dont even ask a bible lover the question. because you should already have know where they stand based on that book.

If dungy had a completely different stance on homosexuality. You(the fan of dungy the stand up guy) should no longer be a fan of dungy. because that would mean he will bend what he believes in just so he can fit in with the masses. people do this all the time. They change with the wind. Which means they are not grounded on principles. Remember. you liked dungy because you thought he was grounded on principles. those principles were biblical principles. So either hate him from the start, or love him because he's keeping it real with you when he says per the book he has loved and has made him the standup guy he is. he does not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. you can disagree with the book itself. but at least tell yourself "i cant be mad at dungy for standing his grown on his principles."

and for those that love to compare apples to crackers. with homosexuality and race relations.

just know this. there is no biblical principle that says intentionally disenfranchise people of color and make sure all the other people are then given a higher status. So not the same at all


and this my friends, is why this topic will be locked, and why most of us have gone away from religion.
if thats why you ran away from religion. you didnt truly understand what you were involved in to begin with. odds are you never really understood it. or if you did, you made a conscious choice. "this is too difficult to deal with. so i'll pass."


Nobody, including you does either. 99% of churchies pick and choose from the bible whatever they hell fits their narrative.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject:

OregonLakerGuy wrote:
I swore I wouldn't come back to off topic, but I happen to have a strong opinion on this subject. Someone very near and dear to me is directly affected. So, before PnP gets this locked up...

To me the solution is to take marriage out of the conversation. Make all of our unions civil unions. If I choose to adorn my civil contract with a church ceremony, that is between me, my partner, my church, and my god.
The root problem is we are cloaking a civil contract in religious garb. Marriage is religious. The union is a civil contract.
Separate the two and I think they both become clearer and stronger.

If you object to my idea, my first question would be what it is about a theocracy that appeals to you?
as quiet as kept. i'm not so sure the bible is even pushing people to force a situation where homosexuals cant marry one another. because to do that at a court house, is not the same thing from the biblical aspect of marriage as you have stated. So in theory christians for the most part do not SUPPORT homosexual marriage. we wont be around high fiving the idea. But at the same token i dont know about all the "dont allow them to get married stuff." i understand the idea. its to keep that from becoming the norm. so children wont grow up thinking its ok. confusing biblical principles. but beyond that idea. if you choose to get a piece of paper. thats on you. you're not seen as a union before the christian God per the Bible. So i'm not sure it even matters. in that aspect.

as long as homosexuals dont start trying to sue religious orgs because they wont marry them, or wont allow them to use their venues to get married. and attempt to sue them on the grounds that they receive federal tax breaks. Therefore what is federal law should apply to everyone receiving said breaks.

lastly, there's no reason for the thread to be locked. if you can clown religion. then someone that knows better can explain it. thats what you call a FAIR discussion. even if the masses disagree with one of the points.
Remember. its the non religious clowing the religious in this thread. its the non religious doing all of the name calling in this thread. the thread title started with name calling. So if it should've been locked. it should've been locked on the first post or someone should've ask the OP to correct that original title and text. but that never happened. and i think we know why. and thats fine with me. i'm not crying about it. and nor have i once mentioned the word lock until now. i've also notice that trend as well. clown on religion all you want. then when someone comes in with a legit rebuttal on the religious side of things. some poster yells "this thread should be locked." oh NOW it should be locked. LOL.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
poppajons wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
poppajons wrote:
The personal attacks need to stop. Being from a Christian background, I do believe what the bible teaches and if someone attacks me because of it, that is their perogative.

I think it is universally known that Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. The issue here is people fall into one of two categories: Those that believe homosexuality is a choice or those that believe it is uncontrollable.

Regardless, Christians put too much emphasis on homosexuality itself and not on Sam, the person. Christians are called to love people, and that means everyone.

I apologize if this sounds preachy, that is not my intention.


I appreciate what you're saying... People are judging Sam and that is not Christian like.. True?


Yes, very true.
actually its true for some and not for all.

see what is this thing we call"judging people"
who even knows what that means?
can you define that phrase as its defined in the bible?

people throw that phrase around all the time. some are correct when they say people are judging others. but at the same time its not always judging thats going on. but the reason others dont like to HEAR what these people have to say is because some people refuse to go ALONG with that idea. there's a difference.

if the book, says all sin is sin.
if the book says pre-marital sex is a sin
if the book says having a homosexual relationship is a sin
then pre-marital sex = homosexuality = a sin
if the book says we should do what we can to correct our sins even though being sinful is a natural temptation. should we not do our best to correct said sins?

if the book says dont judge. but also says am i my brothers keeper. how can i approach my brother(fellow citizen/fellow christian/ friend/family member) about his or her sin if he/she does not see what he/she is doing is a sin? what should I do per the book? should i turn a blind eye and act like i dont see what i see? some say <YES. its non of your business.
Others say dont judge me.

Well here's the thing. its how i handle the situation will tell you if i judged you or if i just brought it up to you out of love.

some even christians like to say"god is love" and leave it at that. as if there are no rights and wrongs. as if there are no rules and regs. as if we can all just live our life like whatever and god would be just fine with that. thats not what that bible says now is it? No.

at what point can you address your brother if he has not addressed his sinful ways himself? and what point are you going to far and then Judging him?

at what point do you address what your brother is doing to the masses because he's also addressing what he's doing to the masses as if what he's doing is not a sin. therefore CONFUSING those that do not yet understand(children in the flesh and children in the spiritual since)

what the OP forgot when he made that statement about dungy is this.

If you know a person is a "man of god" so they say. and lets say you see them as a stand up guy/gal. The reason Tony D doesnt curse in the locker room is because of christ. at least so he says. no telling what dungy is doing behind closed doors. so lets just assume for arguments sake what he says is legit.

if you really like dungy. understand you cant take away the God fearing man part of dungy and still come up with the same man you like.

if he's a tool today. he was a tool the other day pre-sam.

that goes for anyone you look up to or think is a stand up person but they say they are christians and truly believe in the bible. part of the reason they are stand up. is because of their morals. their morals are coming from that book you hate or dont agree with. it say in that book that homosexuality is a sin. So dont even ask a bible lover the question. because you should already have know where they stand based on that book.

If dungy had a completely different stance on homosexuality. You(the fan of dungy the stand up guy) should no longer be a fan of dungy. because that would mean he will bend what he believes in just so he can fit in with the masses. people do this all the time. They change with the wind. Which means they are not grounded on principles. Remember. you liked dungy because you thought he was grounded on principles. those principles were biblical principles. So either hate him from the start, or love him because he's keeping it real with you when he says per the book he has loved and has made him the standup guy he is. he does not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. you can disagree with the book itself. but at least tell yourself "i cant be mad at dungy for standing his grown on his principles."

and for those that love to compare apples to crackers. with homosexuality and race relations.

just know this. there is no biblical principle that says intentionally disenfranchise people of color and make sure all the other people are then given a higher status. So not the same at all


and this my friends, is why this topic will be locked, and why most of us have gone away from religion.


It seems like he ran away from English Composition.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject:

OregonLakerGuy wrote:
I swore I wouldn't come back to off topic, but I happen to have a strong opinion on this subject. Someone very near and dear to me is directly affected. So, before PnP gets this locked up...

To me the solution is to take marriage out of the conversation. Make all of our unions civil unions. If I choose to adorn my civil contract with a church ceremony, that is between me, my partner, my church, and my god.
The root problem is we are cloaking a civil contract in religious garb. Marriage is religious. The union is a civil contract.
Separate the two and I think they both become clearer and stronger.

If you object to my idea, my first question would be what it is about a theocracy that appeals to you?

I'm glad you did come back to make that point, as it is a very good one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:

Nobody, including you does either. 99% of churchies pick and choose from the bible whatever they hell fits their narrative.


And of course, the bible that they are picking from is itself a result of someone picking whatever they feel fits their narrative, and the bible that that person picked from was a result of the same. And so on and so on.

It was a book written by committee hundreds of years after the fact because it served a purpose. Nothing in the bible is a first hand accounting.

And all of that is before we even get into how things get lost in translation between languages as well as over long periods of time. Fact checking wasn't exactly a big deal 400 years ago.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.


pnp gave the fairy tale version of what religious nuts do with gay people. He gave a piss poor example because judging your daughter in that situation would be "you're a thug who likes to date thugs and I want nothing to do with you" THAT'S judging and that's EXACTLY what churchies do to gays. They discriminate, scold, and single them out. They don't give the sugar coated version pnp just gave.

He actually gave 2 piss poor examples. How the (bleep) can you compare being gay to being a druggie? What a stupid ass analogy. Being gay doesn't hurt you or anybody. As long as you're not hurting anybody, you SHOULD be able to do what you want.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.
i didnt say a fathers perception of a thug. i said an actual THUG. dont have double standards for your daughter. if she is happy with said thug. let her be..RIGHT? cause you said ultimately its about one being happy.

here's the thing, i dont know about other christians. but i know me personally. i know a few people that are gay/les and bi. my old boss was actually getting the surgery(going from a man to a woman). So its not like i have not had an extensive amt of dealings with these folks.

I also do feel compassion for them. Because while i do believe what the bible says. I also think it has to be an extremely difficult thing if they did choose to suck it up and not allow their temptations to run their life.meaning it would be very very hard to stay away from something you are attracted to, in addition be alone so to speak thru life. Not saying they have to choose to be alone. but some might choose that route instead of trying to see if they can fly straight. which i would understand as well. So its not that i dont feel for folks in these situations. i just refuse to change the rules because its hard. its hard for all of us in different scenarios. if i change the rules for that situation. i will surely change it for my own stuff.

if you find yourself constantly changing the rules then you will have no rules. no principles to stand on. You wont know which way is up or down. which ever the way the wind blows it the way you will go. if it sounds good, you will agree. if it Feels good at the moment...thats what you will do. that mentality will get you into a lot of trouble even outside of the spiritual since. lets not even get into the spiritual issues you will run into going that route. but this is my choice to live life this way. you can choose something else. it doesnt matter what I think. i'm not God, i cant send you to heaven nor hell. i'm just an avg joe like you. thats why all i do is deliver the message not the judgement. some will say there is no God. and thats fine too. But just because you think some thing doesnt make it true. it goes both ways. I believe there is one, some dont. at some point we will find out.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
then when someone comes in with a legit rebuttal on the religious side of things.


Yeah, still waiting for that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject:

Please don't lock this thread...homophobia is damned entertaining!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:50 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

Marriage isn't a right unless there was a recent constitutional amendment I'm not aware of.


The term "right" is not strictly limited to the Constitution and I don't think anyone is using the term "right" in your overly literal (and incorrect) fashion. The term "right" in this fashion is defined as "a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way." In this country, one can not get married legally with out a license. At this point, the ability, or right, to get a marriage license from certain states is limited to heterosexual couples.

Quote:
People seem to confuse those opposed to gay marriage with those opposed to gay unions.


Another silly and diversionary debate about semantics that is meaningless.

Quote:
A lot of people (including Dungy) are not opposed to the idea of people unionizing. They just don't want the term "marriage" being applied to a union that involves anything other than a man or woman. It's just a lame religious thing.


Dungy and others really have no say in whether people "unionize" - people date who they date. Whether someone supports people being a couple or not is meaningless. It's not a recognized coupling on any substantial note (with the exception of common-law situations). So whether opposed are opposed or not is moot.

Marriage is the legal standing that matters. Religion has nothing to do with legal standing. So it matters not whether whether people like Dungy support gay couples if they don't support legal marriage. It's kind of like the parent who says, "Look honey, if you're going to date that unemployable drunk, there's not much I can do about it. But if you try to marry him, your mom and I are going to disown you". The fact that they were begrudgingly OK with the dating is meaningless and doesn't indicate any support for the "union" as you put it.

But you are correct about the "lame" portion of the statement.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.
i didnt say a fathers perception of a thug. i said an actual THUG. dont have double standards for your daughter. if she is happy with said thug. let her be..RIGHT? cause you said ultimately its about one being happy.

here's the thing, i dont know about other christians. but i know me personally. i know a few people that are gay/les and bi. my old boss was actually getting the surgery(going from a man to a woman). So its not like i have not had an extensive amt of dealings with these folks.

I also do feel compassion for them. Because while i do believe what the bible says. I also think it has to be an extremely difficult thing if they did choose to suck it up and not allow their temptations to run their life.meaning it would be very very hard to stay away from something you are attracted to, in addition be alone so to speak thru life. Not saying they have to choose to be alone. but some might choose that route instead of trying to see if they can fly straight. which i would understand as well. So its not that i dont feel for folks in these situations. i just refuse to change the rules because its hard. its hard for all of us in different scenarios. if i change the rules for that situation. i will surely change it for my own stuff.

if you find yourself constantly changing the rules then you will have no rules. no principles to stand on. You wont know which way is up or down. which ever the way the wind blows it the way you will go. if it sounds good, you will agree. if it Feels good at the moment...thats what you will do. that mentality will get you into a lot of trouble even outside of the spiritual since. lets not even get into the spiritual issues you will run into going that route. but this is my choice to live life this way. you can choose something else. it doesnt matter what I think. i'm not God, i cant send you to heaven nor hell. i'm just an avg joe like you. thats why all i do is deliver the message not the judgement. some will say there is no God. and thats fine too. But just because you think some thing doesnt make it true. it goes both ways. I believe there is one, some dont. at some point we will find out.


So then you follow every rule in the bible, correct?

And I don't mean just the ones you like, I mean every single one. Because if you aren't, then you are a hypocrite.

As for rules not being changeable, allow me to remind you that there were once rules in this and other countries about who could and could not own slaves. There were rules in this country about women not being able to vote. There were so many rules that are dated and, quite frankly, so ignorant that they would elicit nothing but laughter and outrage if introduced today.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.
i didnt say a fathers perception of a thug. i said an actual THUG. dont have double standards for your daughter. if she is happy with said thug. let her be..RIGHT? cause you said ultimately its about one being happy.

here's the thing, i dont know about other christians. but i know me personally. i know a few people that are gay/les and bi. my old boss was actually getting the surgery(going from a man to a woman). So its not like i have not had an extensive amt of dealings with these folks.

I also do feel compassion for them. Because while i do believe what the bible says. I also think it has to be an extremely difficult thing if they did choose to suck it up and not allow their temptations to run their life.meaning it would be very very hard to stay away from something you are attracted to, in addition be alone so to speak thru life. Not saying they have to choose to be alone. but some might choose that route instead of trying to see if they can fly straight. which i would understand as well. So its not that i dont feel for folks in these situations. i just refuse to change the rules because its hard. its hard for all of us in different scenarios. if i change the rules for that situation. i will surely change it for my own stuff.

if you find yourself constantly changing the rules then you will have no rules. no principles to stand on. You wont know which way is up or down. which ever the way the wind blows it the way you will go. if it sounds good, you will agree. if it Feels good at the moment...thats what you will do. that mentality will get you into a lot of trouble even outside of the spiritual since. lets not even get into the spiritual issues you will run into going that route. but this is my choice to live life this way. you can choose something else. it doesnt matter what I think. i'm not God, i cant send you to heaven nor hell. i'm just an avg joe like you. thats why all i do is deliver the message not the judgement. some will say there is no God. and thats fine too. But just because you think some thing doesnt make it true. it goes both ways. I believe there is one, some dont. at some point we will find out.


I was pretty clear about rules, nothing was getting changed. i believe that as along as people abide by the law they can do what makes them happy.

As for daughters and thugs, I repeat my above point, if they follow the law, then the perception of them as a thug is just that (a perception). If you're asking me would I allow my daughter to date someone who engages in illegal activity, the answer is no, there's no confusion there whatsoever. There's no double standard at all, do what makes you happy within the confines of the law.

There's a big difference between lifestyle choices and the law, being gay is who you are or who you choose to be and you're not doing anything wrong. The law is the law, it's not debatable and not up to people to decide whether they agree or not, because if you don't follow it you can be punished.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:
Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.


pnp gave the fairy tale version of what religious nuts do with gay people. He gave a piss poor example because judging your daughter in that situation would be "you're a thug who likes to date thugs and I want nothing to do with you" THAT'S judging and that's EXACTLY what churchies do to gays. They discriminate, scold, and single them out. They don't give the sugar coated version pnp just gave.
easy there. you are correct. the church as a whole does have a problem when dealing with homosexuality among other issues. some people see homosexuals as different. truth is, they are the same as all of us. biblically speaking, they just have to deal with the temptation of going to bed with someone of the same sex. why the straight person has to deal with the temptation of going to be with someone they are not married to from the same sex. but if what stated above is true per the bible, about God not recognizing homosexual marriages as biblical. then actually we all have the same issue.

if homosexuals cant be married in God eyes.
therefore anyone having romantic relations with someone of the same sex is therefore having sex with someone they are not married to. guess what? thats the exact same temptation straight folks deal with.

The difference comes in when you say there is no way to make having a homosexual relationship right. vs a straight relationship thru marriage can be made right. this is why i said above i do have compassion for them going thru that if they choose to make attempts to suck it up. because thats one heck of a road to ride on. i salute them for the effort even if they fail from time to time.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.


pnp gave the fairy tale version of what religious nuts do with gay people. He gave a piss poor example because judging your daughter in that situation would be "you're a thug who likes to date thugs and I want nothing to do with you" THAT'S judging and that's EXACTLY what churchies do to gays. They discriminate, scold, and single them out. They don't give the sugar coated version pnp just gave.
easy there. you are correct. the church as a whole does have a problem when dealing with homosexuality among other issues. some people see homosexuals as different. truth is, they are the same as all of us. biblically speaking, they just have to deal with the temptation of going to bed with someone of the same sex. why the straight person has to deal with the temptation of going to be with someone they are not married to from the same sex. but if what stated above is true per the bible, about God not recognizing homosexual marriages as biblical. then actually we all have the same issue.

if homosexuals cant be married in God eyes.
therefore anyone having romantic relations with someone of the same sex is therefore having sex with someone they are not married to. guess what? thats the exact same temptation straight folks deal with.

The difference comes in when you say there is no way to make having a homosexual relationship right. vs a straight relationship thru marriage can be made right. this is why i said above i do have compassion for them going thru that if they choose to make attempts to suck it up. because thats one heck of a road to ride on. i salute them for the effort even if they fail from time to time.


All of this is irrelevant as religion as 0 to do with the constitution and what you're legal rights are.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.
i didnt say a fathers perception of a thug. i said an actual THUG. dont have double standards for your daughter. if she is happy with said thug. let her be..RIGHT? cause you said ultimately its about one being happy.

here's the thing, i dont know about other christians. but i know me personally. i know a few people that are gay/les and bi. my old boss was actually getting the surgery(going from a man to a woman). So its not like i have not had an extensive amt of dealings with these folks.

I also do feel compassion for them. Because while i do believe what the bible says. I also think it has to be an extremely difficult thing if they did choose to suck it up and not allow their temptations to run their life.meaning it would be very very hard to stay away from something you are attracted to, in addition be alone so to speak thru life. Not saying they have to choose to be alone. but some might choose that route instead of trying to see if they can fly straight. which i would understand as well. So its not that i dont feel for folks in these situations. i just refuse to change the rules because its hard. its hard for all of us in different scenarios. if i change the rules for that situation. i will surely change it for my own stuff.

if you find yourself constantly changing the rules then you will have no rules. no principles to stand on. You wont know which way is up or down. which ever the way the wind blows it the way you will go. if it sounds good, you will agree. if it Feels good at the moment...thats what you will do. that mentality will get you into a lot of trouble even outside of the spiritual since. lets not even get into the spiritual issues you will run into going that route. but this is my choice to live life this way. you can choose something else. it doesnt matter what I think. i'm not God, i cant send you to heaven nor hell. i'm just an avg joe like you. thats why all i do is deliver the message not the judgement. some will say there is no God. and thats fine too. But just because you think some thing doesnt make it true. it goes both ways. I believe there is one, some dont. at some point we will find out.


I was pretty clear about rules, nothing was getting changed. i believe that as along as people abide by the law they can do what makes them happy.

As for daughters and thugs, I repeat my above point, if they follow the law, then the perception of them as a thug is just that (a perception). If you're asking me would I allow my daughter to date someone who engages in illegal activity, the answer is no, there's no confusion there whatsoever. There's no double standard at all, do what makes you happy within the confines of the law.

There's a big difference between lifestyle choices and the law, being gay is who you are or who you choose to be and you're not doing anything wrong. The law is the law, it's not debatable and not up to people to decide whether they agree or not, because if you don't follow it you can be punished.
i'll say it for the last time. i didnt say a perceived THUG. so why must you keep throwing that in there? i know why , and you do too. address what i said, or dont address it all and come up with your own line of thinking. but no need to side step what i said as if you didnt just side step it twice.

your daughters bf is a bona-fide THUG(stealer, drug dealer, will harm innocent people, may have even killed a few people, a criminal)

but she's happy with said thug. per your own words if she's happy let her be.
dont switch it up when it comes to your daughter.

dont try to give right advice to your daughter but refuse to do the same thing for others.

again perhaps you dont believe in the bible. if so. then you dont believe homosexuality is wrong. but if you do. you know its wrong. just like your daughter dating a thug is wrong. same/same.

remember to bible believers there are two laws. Man's Law and God's Law.

what did you just say about the law? well there you have it. why be upset with how people feel about homosexuality knowing good and well its against their spiritual laws. Unless of course they are physically discriminating people like i said a few posts up.

this entire thread is not realllly about discrimination. its about not rolling with the idea that homosexuality is OK. if you dont agree its OK. then you're an idiot is the theme of today's topic. Wow, why do i have to be an idiot because i attempt to abide by two laws(man's and god's).

See there are man's laws in business that one can circumvent.
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Last edited by postandpivot on Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
Moses wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Moses wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


There will be some people who are just ignorant on the subject, and could stand to be educated a little.

There will be some people though who just plain disagree with it. Some will just not think it's right and just disapprove of it because they don't like it. Not saying that's right, but some people in life have certain viewpoints and that's not gonna change for them.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that people should be able to do what they want in their own private life when it comes to their sexual orientation. I think we should accept people for who they are and respect their right to be happy because at the end of the day that's all anyone wants - to be happy.
see all this happy stuff sounds great in theory. but in practical application it doesnt always work like that.

for example: Your daughter dates some thug. she loves him(so she says). she is very happy with him. but you being older and more wise. you now what this will turn into 9 times outta 10. but she doesnt care. because she's happy....for now. Should you just let your daughter be? or should you explain to your daughter the pitfalls of dating such a guy and if she continues to date him its her decision at the end of the day but she will have to live with those consequences. see thats not judging at all. Thats being a good parent a good friend/family member. when you give someone solid wise advise.

a year later, all hell breaks loose with their relationship. and you start seeing your daughters happiness turn into extreme sadness..."but but i loved him..i use to be so happy."

I will never tell a person "i just want you to be happy" because i dont know where that person derives their happy. no telling where it comes from. could be drugs for all i know. so i would be essence saying "i just want you to do drugs(happy)"

what i would say is this. I just want you to live a good life and find joy/peace.


What I'm implying is that there isn't anything wrong with being gay, if that makes someone happy then they should be able to be who they are without judgement.

As for a "thug", I don't judge books by their cover. Some people who look at me see a black guy with tattoos and probably think I'm like that, but I'm not that type of person at all. If by thug you mean one who engages in illegal activity, then that is a completely different thing. In my view, as long as a person is abiding by the law, they should be able to do what makes them happy. You better believe though, any man dating my daughter will be in a world of trouble if he starts introducing her to illegal activity.


pnp gave the fairy tale version of what religious nuts do with gay people. He gave a piss poor example because judging your daughter in that situation would be "you're a thug who likes to date thugs and I want nothing to do with you" THAT'S judging and that's EXACTLY what churchies do to gays. They discriminate, scold, and single them out. They don't give the sugar coated version pnp just gave.
easy there. you are correct. the church as a whole does have a problem when dealing with homosexuality among other issues. some people see homosexuals as different. truth is, they are the same as all of us. biblically speaking, they just have to deal with the temptation of going to bed with someone of the same sex. why the straight person has to deal with the temptation of going to be with someone they are not married to from the same sex. but if what stated above is true per the bible, about God not recognizing homosexual marriages as biblical. then actually we all have the same issue.

if homosexuals cant be married in God eyes.
therefore anyone having romantic relations with someone of the same sex is therefore having sex with someone they are not married to. guess what? thats the exact same temptation straight folks deal with.

The difference comes in when you say there is no way to make having a homosexual relationship right. vs a straight relationship thru marriage can be made right. this is why i said above i do have compassion for them going thru that if they choose to make attempts to suck it up. because thats one heck of a road to ride on. i salute them for the effort even if they fail from time to time.


All of this is irrelevant as religion as 0 with the constitution and what you're legal rights are.
what does this reply have to do with what i said replying to your other post?
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