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lakersken80
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe's best year was in 2006 with that garbage roster...and that was when he was at the peak of his powers. We got the 7th seed that year in the west. The west is a lot tougher now than it was back then. The main problem I see with this roster is the lack of size. |
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a2j1m
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Joined: 06 May 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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The goat because he took a (bleep) team to the finals hahaha
Also where is Nash ?
And Davis is number 21 |
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fadeaway3
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Posts: 345
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| cisternachyli wrote: | lets just get close to the playoffs first  |
Cold water!  |
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THE_SHOES
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | what makes you think he is below Lebron now?? |
Yes! and puh-llleeeaasseee!! Last I checked the proof is in the awards!!!! Also unlike LJ, Kobe didn't leave town the minute things became difficult like some folks...
Lebron has mad skills, but let's keep one thing straight, when it comes to the heart of a champion? There is no comparison. Kobe wins a ring this year he sits atop the throne with Jabbar, Jordan,Magic, and Russel, as the elite of the elite....
Lebron is nothing more than a confused mercenary at this point and I've got little respect for the man...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."
Last edited by THE_SHOES on Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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THE_SHOES
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Kobe's best year was in 2006 with that garbage roster...and that was when he was at the peak of his powers. We got the 7th seed that year in the west. The west is a lot tougher now than it was back then. The main problem I see with this roster is the lack of size. |
True, but it is going to be tough running with this team for 4 quarters... The Lakers may lose, but oooohhhhh are teams going to be tired at the end of the game trying to beat the Lakers... If the Lakers stay healthy one thing for sure is every game is going to be close and going into the 4th will always be anybodies contest...
Not an un-athletic player on the roster as long as Nash stays seated... This is going to be interesting if they dedicate themselves to playing any level of defense...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | In any case, I am not amazed but certainly irritated that PnP seems to be a legitimate punching bag here. |
You say that PnP knows more about basketball than almost anyone here. Okay, let's set aside the wacky conspiracy theories and the persecution complex about the media. That's not basketball. Let's set aside the rambling, incoherent rants. That's not basketball. If we exclude all of that, I can think of any number of exchanges on purely basketball matters that I've had (or have witnessed) with PnP over many years. He fares a lot better when you parse out the other stuff, but your "than almost anyone here" statement still seems out of left field.
In any event, I've crossed swords with PnP on the Kobe vs. MJ issue over the years. About the only thing I remember (and not all that clearly, to be honest) is the usual "the refs loved MJ and screwed Kobe" argument and the usual "ESPN tells everyone that MJ is better than Kobe" argument. I don't remember any "basketball" argument from PnP, other than the usual junk that you hear from the fan boys. I'm really not sure what you're talking about. So enlighten us.
Anyway, you are (obviously) entitled to believe whatever you want on the Kobe vs. MJ issue. There have been many other threads on the subject. There are a few people who agree with you, and they love to throw out stuff like the apocryphal John Wooden statement. However, it is equally clear that this argument has failed in the basketball community at large. Heck, the informal poll in this forum couldn't even get a 50% vote for Kobe being in the all-time top five. |
well, well, well. When kobe got favorable votes, lakers true fans called "of course, what do u expect? This is his home base." On the other hand, when he got the opposite, same lakers fans first provide the approval stamp.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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moonriver24
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Basketball Fan
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Black Salt wrote: | Shaq and Kobe's two Finals losses changed everything for them.
What separates Jordan from everyone else, that not many people talk about enough is 6-0. two 3-peats. 6 Finals MVPs. The reason why Joe Montana always has the upper hand over the Elways, Unitas' and brady's, is 4-0 in the Super Bowl, 3 mvps and 11 TDs and 0 INTS.
Imagine if Shaq had gone 6-0 in the finals. He would have won championships with 3 different teams and more than likely have 5 Finals MVPs.
Had Kobe gone 7-0 in the finals, 2 3-peats, 4 out of 5 titles. He would be a 3 time Finals MVP, would have beaten the Celtics twice and would have pushed the Lakers to the top spot in titles.
In Shaq and Kobe's two finals losses each, their teams were the favorite. So you cant say it was a Lebron in 2007 thing or AI in 2001.
I have said many times, had Shaq won all 6 of his finals appearances, I felt he would be #1 all time at the center position. No worse than two with Kareem being #1.
Kobe, would have undoubtedly be #2 AT WORST and in the top 5 had he gone 7-0. |
Terry Bradshaw is 4-0 in the Super Bowl as well and nobody puts him in the GOAT conversation.
People just make up their reasons as they go along not realizing how incredibly contradictory it is. I mean if its about rings alone Bill Russell is the GOAT |
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philipm35
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | This is something you don't have to worry about; he's not getting a ring. |
Sad but true |
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ringThingDoUrThiNg
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Mj isn't great for going 6/6. He is considered great for the complete dominance of his competition- which resulted in him going 6/6, two 3peats.
Kobe doesn't fall short because he lost a finals, he falls short because he never enjoyed that kind of dominance over his opponents as the main man.
Same with lbj. He had his chance to look dominant, but failed too often on the big stage. If he had won all 4 finals, he would've surpassed Kobe. It's not the ring number, is the dominance. |
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Jeggs
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Kobe's best year was in 2006 with that garbage roster...and that was when he was at the peak of his powers. We got the 7th seed that year in the west. The west is a lot tougher now than it was back then. The main problem I see with this roster is the lack of size. |
That is a misconception. Overall this team is big. We lack a true center but so do most teams |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Jeggs wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Kobe's best year was in 2006 with that garbage roster...and that was when he was at the peak of his powers. We got the 7th seed that year in the west. The west is a lot tougher now than it was back then. The main problem I see with this roster is the lack of size. |
That is a misconception. Overall this team is big. We lack a true center but so do most teams |
How is this team big? No legit 7-footers, Davis and Hill are razor thin. Boozer plays small. Randle who knows, Kelly plays small.
At best we're average, not big. |
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jmacauc
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Kobe's best year was in 2006 with that garbage roster...and that was when he was at the peak of his powers. We got the 7th seed that year in the west. The west is a lot tougher now than it was back then. The main problem I see with this roster is the lack of size. |
True, but it is going to be tough running with this team for 4 quarters... The Lakers may lose, but oooohhhhh are teams going to be tired at the end of the game trying to beat the Lakers... If the Lakers stay healthy one thing for sure is every game is going to be close and going into the 4th will always be anybodies contest...
Not an un-athletic player on the roster as long as Nash stays seated... This is going to be interesting if they dedicate themselves to playing any level of defense... |
Totally agree with you that although this team may be "lacking in size" but making up with speed with all the young guns. Many teams will have a hard time to try to run & gun and keep up with them. A very reminder of resemblance of the 1st year run & gun Rockets team with Harden, Lin, Parsons, TJones, DMo, etc. that won them 45 games. |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now. |
I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| jmacauc wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Kobe's best year was in 2006 with that garbage roster...and that was when he was at the peak of his powers. We got the 7th seed that year in the west. The west is a lot tougher now than it was back then. The main problem I see with this roster is the lack of size. |
True, but it is going to be tough running with this team for 4 quarters... The Lakers may lose, but oooohhhhh are teams going to be tired at the end of the game trying to beat the Lakers... If the Lakers stay healthy one thing for sure is every game is going to be close and going into the 4th will always be anybodies contest...
Not an un-athletic player on the roster as long as Nash stays seated... This is going to be interesting if they dedicate themselves to playing any level of defense... |
Totally agree with you that although this team may be "lacking in size" but making up with speed with all the young guns. Many teams will have a hard time to try to run & gun and keep up with them. A very reminder of resemblance of the 1st year run & gun Rockets team with Harden, Lin, Parsons, TJones, DMo, etc. that won them 45 games. |
that team was much younger, harden played out of his mind (offensively), and don't forget, they had a solid big defender in Asik.
Not sure playing a run and gun system with Kobe is a good idea. He's best in the half court setting at the high post.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Jeggs wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Kobe's best year was in 2006 with that garbage roster...and that was when he was at the peak of his powers. We got the 7th seed that year in the west. The west is a lot tougher now than it was back then. The main problem I see with this roster is the lack of size. |
That is a misconception. Overall this team is big. We lack a true center but so do most teams |
How is this team big? No legit 7-footers, Davis and Hill are razor thin. Boozer plays small. Randle who knows, Kelly plays small.
At best we're average, not big. |
At least our guards are big. I hope we can run force some switches with split actions, and get Kobe or Nick Young posted down low on a PG.
On a semi-related note. I was re-watching an old Finals game with Shaq the other day. Jeebus, I'm glad there's no one like that on other teams these days. Now we throw around the term "beast" on players who are just tiny in comparison. |
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ringThingDoUrThiNg
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Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now. |
I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that. |
Kobe would need 2 historic and memorable seasons to change his ranking. |
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NomisR
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now. |
I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that. |
It depends on his impact this and next year though. Considering that everyone was playing this team #12 in the west right now, if he can indeed drag this team to a championship, the narrative might actually change, at least for the short term.
Of course over time, people will forget what the media thought of this team before the season started and assumed that we had a good team to start with. |
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Jeggs
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| NomisR wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now. |
I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that. |
It depends on his impact this and next year though. Considering that everyone was playing this team #12 in the west right now, if he can indeed drag this team to a championship, the narrative might actually change, at least for the short term.
Of course over time, people will forget what the media thought of this team before the season started and assumed that we had a good team to start with. |
If Kobe got a another ring he would move from goat....to goat with an immediate statue made in his honor. Why not MJ? Two words: expansion teams! That's why 6/6 needs to be taken into context.
Kobes next milestone is all time points....passing Jordan for 3rd.
Last edited by Jeggs on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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If Kobe leads this roster to a championship this season I would consider him the greatest of all time.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | Black Salt wrote: | Shaq and Kobe's two Finals losses changed everything for them.
What separates Jordan from everyone else, that not many people talk about enough is 6-0. two 3-peats. 6 Finals MVPs. The reason why Joe Montana always has the upper hand over the Elways, Unitas' and brady's, is 4-0 in the Super Bowl, 3 mvps and 11 TDs and 0 INTS.
Imagine if Shaq had gone 6-0 in the finals. He would have won championships with 3 different teams and more than likely have 5 Finals MVPs.
Had Kobe gone 7-0 in the finals, 2 3-peats, 4 out of 5 titles. He would be a 3 time Finals MVP, would have beaten the Celtics twice and would have pushed the Lakers to the top spot in titles.
In Shaq and Kobe's two finals losses each, their teams were the favorite. So you cant say it was a Lebron in 2007 thing or AI in 2001.
I have said many times, had Shaq won all 6 of his finals appearances, I felt he would be #1 all time at the center position. No worse than two with Kareem being #1.
Kobe, would have undoubtedly be #2 AT WORST and in the top 5 had he gone 7-0. |
Terry Bradshaw is 4-0 in the Super Bowl as well and nobody puts him in the GOAT conversation.
People just make up their reasons as they go along not realizing how incredibly contradictory it is. I mean if its about rings alone Bill Russell is the GOAT |
Yeah I never understood that argument either. Montana almost made a 5th Super Bowl with the Kansas City Chiefs and probably would have lost to the Dallas Cowboys. Assuming that happened, his Super Bowl record is 4-1 instead of 4-0. Would losing in the Super Bowl with the Chiefs make his career less impressive? I think it would have been more impressive to make it with 2 different teams, even if he lost with the Chiefs. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| If Kobe leads this team to a title, it would mean we greatly underrated the roster. His teammates will have to greatly exceed expectations because I don't think any player in NBA history could lead this team to a title if this team is as bad as I think it is. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | Black Salt wrote: | Shaq and Kobe's two Finals losses changed everything for them.
What separates Jordan from everyone else, that not many people talk about enough is 6-0. two 3-peats. 6 Finals MVPs. The reason why Joe Montana always has the upper hand over the Elways, Unitas' and brady's, is 4-0 in the Super Bowl, 3 mvps and 11 TDs and 0 INTS.
Imagine if Shaq had gone 6-0 in the finals. He would have won championships with 3 different teams and more than likely have 5 Finals MVPs.
Had Kobe gone 7-0 in the finals, 2 3-peats, 4 out of 5 titles. He would be a 3 time Finals MVP, would have beaten the Celtics twice and would have pushed the Lakers to the top spot in titles.
In Shaq and Kobe's two finals losses each, their teams were the favorite. So you cant say it was a Lebron in 2007 thing or AI in 2001.
I have said many times, had Shaq won all 6 of his finals appearances, I felt he would be #1 all time at the center position. No worse than two with Kareem being #1.
Kobe, would have undoubtedly be #2 AT WORST and in the top 5 had he gone 7-0. |
Terry Bradshaw is 4-0 in the Super Bowl as well and nobody puts him in the GOAT conversation.
People just make up their reasons as they go along not realizing how incredibly contradictory it is. I mean if its about rings alone Bill Russell is the GOAT |
Yeah I never understood that argument either. Montana almost made a 5th Super Bowl with the Kansas City Chiefs and probably would have lost to the Dallas Cowboys. Assuming that happened, his Super Bowl record is 4-1 instead of 4-0. Would losing in the Super Bowl with the Chiefs make his career less impressive? I think it would have been more impressive to make it with 2 different teams, even if he lost with the Chiefs. |
Winning PCT in the finals is the dumbest argument ever. Why would going 1-1 be better than going 5-11?
If you must do some kind of percentage, then it should be Rings vs Seasons Played. That way, all non championship wins are considered together as non-wins.
So in the case of Kobe and Jordan, it would be 5-18 (.278) and 6-15 (.400) respectively. For Lebron it would be 2-11 (.181). |
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lgnofridge
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| MJ>Kobe>LBJ |
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