View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
If defense schemes don't work how is it The magic was top defense and Lakers and Hou both sucked on defense with the same player? It's more about schemes and the players buying into it than it is about defensive talent. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Car54 wrote: | If defense schemes don't work how is it The magic was top defense and Lakers and Hou both sucked on defense with the same player? It's more about schemes and the players buying into it than it is about defensive talent. |
Agreed.
But the question stands. Most elite defenses or even good ones, have at least one top defender. We don't have any. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | If defense schemes don't work how is it The magic was top defense and Lakers and Hou both sucked on defense with the same player? It's more about schemes and the players buying into it than it is about defensive talent. |
Agreed.
But the question stands. Most elite defenses or even good ones, have at least one top defender. We don't have any. |
Your missing one important thing these guys never was thought of as great defenders until playing in great schemes _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Car54 wrote: | I can see this team being anywhere from 7-15th on defense depending on who Byron gets as an assistant. Hopefully it's Dave miller. Davis defense was comparable to Noah and Ibaka!!! That's a tremendous upgrade to Pau last year. |
Calm down. Even with those lofty defensive stats you quote, Davis's game has a lot of flaws (which is why he has trouble getting playing time, and why a center/PF in a league starved for big men had to settle for a minimum contract). It's not like he's going to playing 30 minutes a game for us.
If move from 28th in defense to 20th, I'll be happy. I can't imagine we'll be in the top 10. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
activeverb wrote: | Car54 wrote: | I can see this team being anywhere from 7-15th on defense depending on who Byron gets as an assistant. Hopefully it's Dave miller. Davis defense was comparable to Noah and Ibaka!!! That's a tremendous upgrade to Pau last year. |
Calm down. Even with those lofty defensive stats you quote, Davis's game has a lot of flaws (which is why he has trouble getting playing time, and why a center/PF in a league starved for big men had to settle for a minimum contract). It's not like he's going to playing 30 minutes a game for us.
If move from 28th in defense to 20th, I'll be happy. I can't imagine we'll be in the top 10. |
I think playing behind DPOY and Zbo had something to do with the amount of playing time he got. We're not just talking about the addition of one player we're talking about having a plan now. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01 Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001 Posts: 1703
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | Ed Davis is foul prone and plays his minutes as a reserve, so comparing his stats to DPOY candidates who also led the league in minutes is preposterous. Noah and Ibaka face starters. Ed Davis only starts against Phoenix, though he does dominate them.
Even though he and Hill could be decent as a platoon, we could lead the league in fouls called on centers next year. |
So now he's doesn't face starters because he came off the bench? Lol wow the interesting thing is the grizz best defense lineups all included him. |
For starters, he's playing being ZBo/MGasol so the minutes are sporadic. But Memphis traded for him with the high hopes he would be a major spark off the bench. 2 seasons and he averaged around 15 mpg, 5 ppg, 4 rpg.
He should have a decent chance here so I'm hoping for the best for him. He's still young enough to improve, but he fell flat in Memphis.
But at the minimum I'll gladly take him! (And I'm a big Tar Heel fan so I like him anyways!) |
Playing behind that front line explains his lack of minutes, though even with Randolph missing Game 7 this year, Ed Davis didn't get the start, and only played the final minute. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | The point guard position in this league today, on the defensive end, is vital. You’ve got to have guys that are — they don’t have to be great — they don’t have to be great one-on-one defenders, but they have to go after you. They have to just continue to be persistent at that end of the floor. I think Jeremy is like that, and offensively, obviously he can shoot the ball. He can push the ball up and down the floor. He gets to the basket. He’s a very, very intelligent basketball player, so again, after coaching against him for a few years, it’s going to be fun to coach him.” |
Coach Byron _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Voices Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 8287 Location: Oxnard, Ca.
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If there is an emphasis put on defense, both one on one and team defense which is far more important then this team will compete on a nightly basis.
Because of Kobe, Lin, Young, a healthy Nash, X and Randle this team will be able to score, but the scoring will have to be control scoring, within in the offense.
I am optimistic because of Scott, I'm hoping he will not tolerate hero basketball, except Kobe will be given more latitude. _________________ .....
.....
ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tonman Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 585
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: The defense isn't gonna be as bad as most are thinking |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: |
We will have isses at the PG/SG spot defensively speaking. Lin isn't horrific as people have made him out to be, but he isn't a great defender by any means either. Gets lost in P&Rs. Nash/Lin may be in the bottom tier defensively as far as PGs.
|
you don't get "lost" in a P&R. there are two offensive players running the P&R therefore there are two defensive players defending the P&R. if Lin gets "lost" in a P&R what does that say about his teammate? was he playing great defense and Lin just got "lost"?
Lin's issue is picking the best route around the P&R and that depends on his teammate either showing high so that he can recover. that is why Asik is a better defender at the P&R then Howard is.
Lin recovers well to the basket as he is up there in blocked shots among PG as well as defensive FG% at the rim. he doesn't get out on the shooter fast enough around the P&R.
Nash, well he was never even average and now injured and old, he can be a liability. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I predict la is mid pack on defense. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
24 wrote: | I predict la is mid pack on defense. |
Which will be a great improvement.
I'd love that.
Now if our offense can be top 12 in efficiency... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jim99187 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 22138
|
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
24 wrote: | I predict la is mid pack on defense. |
From 29 to mid pack ill take it.
Ig somehow they can get bledsoe they will be 7-12 pack |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:22 am Post subject: Re: The defense isn't gonna be as bad as most are thinking |
|
|
tonman wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
We will have isses at the PG/SG spot defensively speaking. Lin isn't horrific as people have made him out to be, but he isn't a great defender by any means either. Gets lost in P&Rs. Nash/Lin may be in the bottom tier defensively as far as PGs.
|
you don't get "lost" in a P&R. there are two offensive players running the P&R therefore there are two defensive players defending the P&R. if Lin gets "lost" in a P&R what does that say about his teammate? was he playing great defense and Lin just got "lost"?
Lin's issue is picking the best route around the P&R and that depends on his teammate either showing high so that he can recover. that is why Asik is a better defender at the P&R then Howard is.
Lin recovers well to the basket as he is up there in blocked shots among PG as well as defensive FG% at the rim. he doesn't get out on the shooter fast enough around the P&R.
Nash, well he was never even average and now injured and old, he can be a liability. |
Let me guess. New Lin/Lakers fan? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cedceb Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 319
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
i'm struggling to see how this roster currently constructed will consistently get to 80 points a night offensively
pringles refusal to guard anybody and free reign on offense without focusing any energy on d got a bunch of bench players able to get to 100-110
if BS does indeed clamp down and bring a defensive focus, offensively only follows that less likely to be careless with the ball (value each possession), and play through an older / on the mend kobe who will want to get in the post each possession
what BS and kobe will realize is that at this stage in his career, kobe does NOT warrant a double team in the post against more athletic 6'7 guys (different story if he's posting up a 6'2 point)
bottom line with this is less possessions overall, kobe having to work really hard in the post, NO post player who will demand a double (just cannot say Randle is that person yet, way way too early), it's gonna be REALLY tough to score in the half court
wouldn't be surprised to see most games not getting to 80 points |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Cedceb wrote: | i'm struggling to see how this roster currently constructed will consistently get to 80 points a night offensively
pringles refusal to guard anybody and free reign on offense without focusing any energy on d got a bunch of bench players able to get to 100-110
if BS does indeed clamp down and bring a defensive focus, offensively only follows that less likely to be careless with the ball (value each possession), and play through an older / on the mend kobe who will want to get in the post each possession
what BS and kobe will realize is that at this stage in his career, kobe does NOT warrant a double team in the post against more athletic 6'7 guys (different story if he's posting up a 6'2 point)
bottom line with this is less possessions overall, kobe having to work really hard in the post, NO post player who will demand a double (just cannot say Randle is that person yet, way way too early), it's gonna be REALLY tough to score in the half court
wouldn't be surprised to see most games not getting to 80 points |
The lakers avg 99ppg with smush Parker Luke and Kwame in the starting line up. I don't know how you think this team will struggle to score with Kobe Lin Young Boozer Randall and Xavier _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jlinfan Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jul 2014 Posts: 720
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Car54 wrote: | Cedceb wrote: | i'm struggling to see how this roster currently constructed will consistently get to 80 points a night offensively
pringles refusal to guard anybody and free reign on offense without focusing any energy on d got a bunch of bench players able to get to 100-110
if BS does indeed clamp down and bring a defensive focus, offensively only follows that less likely to be careless with the ball (value each possession), and play through an older / on the mend kobe who will want to get in the post each possession
what BS and kobe will realize is that at this stage in his career, kobe does NOT warrant a double team in the post against more athletic 6'7 guys (different story if he's posting up a 6'2 point)
bottom line with this is less possessions overall, kobe having to work really hard in the post, NO post player who will demand a double (just cannot say Randle is that person yet, way way too early), it's gonna be REALLY tough to score in the half court
wouldn't be surprised to see most games not getting to 80 points |
The lakers avg 99ppg with smush Parker Luke and Kwame in the starting line up. I don't know how you think this team will struggle to score with Kobe Lin Young Boozer Randall and Xavier |
My take is he/she are saying that the change in D philosophy will translate to less posessions and on top of that, lack of someone to draw double team is going to make it hard to score points. I don't see that happening with this roster but the point is valid. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
|
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was impressed by Byron Scott press interview but I fear we're gonna be bottom 10 in defense. Looking at the personal it would be hard to be that much better. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|