Kevin Love trade thread - :: Trade is completed. -- Love to Cavs -- Wiggins/Bennett/Thad Young to TWolves -- Mbah a Moute/Shved/1strounder to 6ers. (PG. 11)
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lakers0505
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I think foot speed would be issue for Love/James. Unlike Bosh, Love is not a great S/R defender or at moving his feet. Minnesota consistently was bad on D. This isn't KG coming out of Minnesota's bad teams. Part of the reason Minnesota is so bad is Love's defense. It's not an asset, it's a hinderence because he's slow footed. He's not quick enough to defend quicker front court players, and while he has a solid post base, he can't really defend low post C's. His main asset is his rebounding, but you have to play team and man D.

Then factor LBJ in Miami was playing a lot of PF and even C defensively. If you look at what Spo did, Lebron played all over the place. This was because could switch from PF to C and Bosh was also a pretty good perimeter defender for a guy his size. Miami's D more than their O was why they were stellar. On O, in the end it always just came down to LBJ or Wade creating in big moments and their shooters making open looks.

In CLE, I'd argue their defensive versatility and potential is far more with a James/Wiggins tandem, than James/Love. What CLE would be trying to do is have Love play the Bosh role. Which he can on O, but I don't think he can on D.

That said, it's not like I'd find it was stupid if this. They have one of the GOAT in prime. They've never won a ring. So if you can get closer to a ring today, you do it. I understand all of that.


I actually agree with keeping Wiggins.

In bursts during the Summer league, you've seen why he was taken over Parker and has "superstar" potential consideration.

He looks like a team guy as well,but the Cleveland FO is the Lebron FO, he wants Love, so Wiggins is gone imo.

If he's not trade for Love, its for another player.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
@ESPNSteinLine
Story going online now with @WindhorstESPN: ESPN sources say Kevin Love trade to Cleveland increasingly looking like "when" not "if" deal

Quote:
@ESPNSteinLine
ESPN sources say Wolves currently only in talks w/Cavs on Love deal; Bulls essentially moving on and GSW still not giving up Klay Thompson

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@ESPNSteinLine
Link to ESPN latest on Kevin Love co-scribed with @WindhorstESPN - http://es.pn/1s5eg90
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
KBH wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
KBH wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Wow. Giving up Wiggins for Love sounds insane.


How is giving up an unproven rookie for arguably the best PF in the league insane? The only reason for the Cavs not to pull the trigger on that move is that they possibly have enough assets to get Love and still keep Wiggins-which would be borderline highway robbery.

Because it is quite likely that Wiggins will be a 10-12 time all-star while Love as probably 4-5 more quality years like that. You rarely see this type of move. And it's not JUST Wiggins. The Cavs have to make salaries work, lots of other talent is going out. Already Wiggins is as good DeMar DeRozan, I promise you on that. How much better can he get? Don't know, but he'll be a very good player for a long time.

The main benefit is that they would be closer to the top 2 in the East playoffs than the 7th/8th seed. However, to really justify this they would need Love to stay on for 5 years at least and Lebron the same. Lebron/Love/Irving playing together for 5 years likely yields a few deep playoff runs with a possibility of a title or two, depending on other factors. It's a good move for CLE, IF Lebron stays on beyond these 2 years and Love re-signs for 4 more years. Those are IF's not certain things. If the Lakers were in the same boat, I'd pass on dealing Wiggins for Love to be honest.


It's also very unlikely that Wiggins will ever be as good as Lebron, who you already have. When you have the best player in the NBA at the age of 29 on your team, it's all about maximizing the time you have him, not about waiting for a 19 year old to develop. If you can do both and get Love without giving up Wiggins, great. But Wiggins won't be a championship-ready player for another 2-4 years, by which point Lebron will likely be past his prime. You can't possibly sacrifice what Lebron is for what Wiggins MIGHT be. Also, Love is only 25 years old. I think it's crazy to say he only has 4-5 all-star years left. We probably disagree on this, but I think a Lebron, Love, Irving big three with good role players (which they are already gathering) is enough to blitz the east and win some rings, too.


Lakers did this in 1996.

I'm starting to think Kevin Love is overrated.

Kyrie Irving is All-Star caliber.
Varejao is a better defender and equal rebounder to Kevin Love.
Bennett can provide (albeit streaky) 3-point range.
Wiggins can be a 3 and D player for LeBron while being an elite finisher.

I don't see what the problem is.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject:

Wiggins for Love would be so short sighted by the Cavs.

This is like a Kobe/Shaq potential duo... you have one guy... able to dominate right now... and the next guy will rise, while the other fades...

Now we know historically those two egos couldn't mesh... but still... They are shrinking the potential window by getting Love for Wiggins...

Also this is the other thing they are missing... you can package all that other stuff you would have given up for Love... and get a different great player, or other great players... Heck you could probably get a poormans Love... David Lee on the cheap for example as well (matching contracts and one prospect).

I'd rather have an Irving, Wiggins, Lebronze, Lee type lineup... then ditch Wiggins for Love.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject:

what kind of charmed life does Gilbert live?? whines about LeBron leaving 4 years later has 3 of that last #1 overall picks, LeBron back and to boot Miamis 2015 #1 pick from losing LeBron in the first place

whines about CP3 trade and the construction of "superteams" then years later gets a team to trade him Kevin Love to construct a "superteam"

I just never understand why other teams trade to vastly improve another team while they take on players taht may or may not pan out
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:04 am    Post subject:

Quite frankly, I don't see why Cleveland would have to give up Wiggins in order to get Love.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The thing is IMO Love and Lebron are great on paper but in reality I'm not sure they will win rings.

I think there would be defensive issue there. Wiggins OTOH is still on the up and up, and has immense potential as a defender. He really could be LBJs Pippen type of right hand man who does all the dirty work. Meanwhile he has a great shot at improving and helping CLE beyond the Lebron comes home era ... Again to me if this were the Lakers I would not trade Wiggins.


LeBron/Love/Kyrie probably gets out of the weak east, but they'll lose in the finals against the Spurs, Clippers and Thunder.

I would love to see that, LeBron making another finals and losing. I think that's better than him not making the finals at all.

It's kind of a double edged sword. LeBron will turn 30 during the season, he's been to 4 consecutive finals, the Cavs will have a ROUGH time making the finals with just Kyrie, LeBron and a rookie Wiggins. And if they do make the finals, that's a clean sweep for whatever team comes out of the west.

If they do trade for Love, the offensive burden is lessened on LeBron but the defense becomes atrocious. They lose the future of their franchise and now they have 2 injury prone players that play no defense and that has never been to even the playoffs as their #2 and #3 options. I don't know about you, but if you're #2 and #3 don't play any defense, that's not good at all.

We'll see what happens.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't see why Cleveland would have to give up Wiggins in order to get Love.


Maybe Lebron is pushing for it now?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:51 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The thing is IMO Love and Lebron are great on paper but in reality I'm not sure they will win rings.

I think there would be defensive issue there. Wiggins OTOH is still on the up and up, and has immense potential as a defender. He really could be LBJs Pippen type of right hand man who does all the dirty work. Meanwhile he has a great shot at improving and helping CLE beyond the Lebron comes home era ... Again to me if this were the Lakers I would not trade Wiggins.


LeBron/Love/Kyrie probably gets out of the weak east, but they'll lose in the finals against the Spurs, Clippers and Thunder.

I would love to see that, LeBron making another finals and losing. I think that's better than him not making the finals at all.

It's kind of a double edged sword. LeBron will turn 30 during the season, he's been to 4 consecutive finals, the Cavs will have a ROUGH time making the finals with just Kyrie, LeBron and a rookie Wiggins. And if they do make the finals, that's a clean sweep for whatever team comes out of the west.

If they do trade for Love, the offensive burden is lessened on LeBron but the defense becomes atrocious. They lose the future of their franchise and now they have 2 injury prone players that play no defense and that has never been to even the playoffs as their #2 and #3 options. I don't know about you, but if you're #2 and #3 don't play any defense, that's not good at all.

We'll see what happens
.


Lot of question marks this upcoming season (including with our own team). I'm really looking forward to it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject:

Cle would be stupid to trade wiggins for love. But their hands are tied. It's Lebron's team now.

I'm hoping against reason that we can jump in with cle/min and absorb a bad contract and get an asset.

I'll absorb whatever bad contract they want + give up houston's first for Dieng
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Say what you will about LeBron, players want to play with him. Next season Cleveland will be competitive. in the very near future they will win the Larry O'Brien.

22 Why would they be stupid? Love's a 25 year old proven player, Wiggins is a unproven 1st rounder.

I don't like Wiggins as much a many. I think Jabari Parker will prove to be a better player.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Say what you will about LeBron, players want to play with him. Next season Cleveland will be competitive. in the very near future they will win the Larry O'Brien.

22 Why would they be stupid? Love's a 25 year old proven player, Wiggins is a unproven 1st rounder.

I don't like Wiggins as much a many. I think Jabari Parker will prove to be a better player.


Only because I see Wiggins as a better AND cheaper fit next to Lebron/Kyrie than Love.

Wiggins can be the perfect blue collar 3 & D guy next to those two. And I don't know Cle's cap situation but if they have enough to get an Asik, or Deandre Jordan next year they'd be a way more balanced squad IMO

Kyrie
Waiters
Wiggins
LeBron
Jordan

They could even move Waiters and Bennet for other better fitting pieces. But they're gonna be forced to go after the star names since Lebron is running the team
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject:

I think Wiggins has stud potential, but how long will it take to get there. Love is a proven stud and it's not like he's old (only 25). LeBron's window to win is now.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:20 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't see why Cleveland would have to give up Wiggins in order to get Love.


I've been saying this myself. As long as golden state isn't offering Thompson I can't see a team offering a combination of young players Bennett , waiters and Thompson and draft picks. The closer it gets to the deadline minny is going to have to pull the trigger
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject:

WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't see why Cleveland would have to give up Wiggins in order to get Love.


I've been saying this myself. As long as golden state isn't offering Thompson I can't see a team offering a combination of young players Bennett , waiters and Thompson and draft picks. The closer it gets to the deadline minny is going to have to pull the trigger


I wonder if the Lakers are still thinking about Love. I'm not advocating it, but if that's all Minny could get for Love, then a Randle trade would be their best option.

But to answer GT's question, they have to give up Wiggins to get Love because that's who Minny wants. Minny holds all the cards. They don't have to trade Love to Cleveland, they don't have to trade him at all.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Say what you will about LeBron, players want to play with him. Next season Cleveland will be competitive. in the very near future they will win the Larry O'Brien.

22 Why would they be stupid? Love's a 25 year old proven player, Wiggins is a unproven 1st rounder.

I don't like Wiggins as much a many. I think Jabari Parker will prove to be a better player.


Only because I see Wiggins as a better AND cheaper fit next to Lebron/Kyrie than Love.

Wiggins can be the perfect blue collar 3 & D guy next to those two. And I don't know Cle's cap situation but if they have enough to get an Asik, or Deandre Jordan next year they'd be a way more balanced squad IMO

Kyrie
Waiters
Wiggins
LeBron
Jordan

They could even move Waiters and Bennet for other better fitting pieces. But they're gonna be forced to go after the star names since Lebron is running the team


The value of Wiggins on a rookie contract is huge. Whether you add Love or not, that team still needs rim protection/a defensive anchor in a bad way. Varajao is good, but he'll break down at some point and they need more depth. I haven't crunched the numbers but you've got Lebron and Irving on huge deals. Adding a third in Love means your other guys are all going to have to come on the cheap to fill in the holes and decent rim protectors generally aren't cheap. Tying up two max contracts on two one-way players like Irving and Love leaves you with a lot of holes.

Why not wait for now and see how Wiggins progresses? If his D is pretty good already he can take a lot of the perimeter defensive pressure off Lebron, saving him a ton of energy chasing guys around. Irving sure isn't going to help much on that end. On offense he needs to be able to finish and hit some open jumpers, but LBJ and Irving will carry the load. Meanwhile he's dirt cheap right now giving Cleveland a lot more flexibility to go after some decent role players who can help them plug those holes they have in the front court - namely rim protection.

I realize it's all moot if LBJ says they need to get Love at all costs, but to me there's no hurry to get a deal done right now. See how Wiggins progresses and plays with your team and then make a call.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject:

Socks wrote:

I realize it's all moot if LBJ says they need to get Love at all costs, but to me there's no hurry to get a deal done right now. See how Wiggins progresses and plays with your team and then make a call.


What if Minnesota doesn't want to wait ? Bennett+ Waiters+ low picks is garbage, and Thompson is ready to get paid ( better, overpaid, because is not that good) .

If Cleveland doesn't offer Wiggins and GS doesn't offer Thompson, Minnesota could very well accept Chicago's package, which is a lot better than Cleveland's without Wiggins : it's basically Mirotic, Mc Dermott and better picks.

Bottom line. Cleveland playing the waiting game is going to send Love to Chicago or to another team which makes a better offer.

Since Lebron would be mad if they lose Love ( expecially if the Bulls get him...) for a guy who is 3-4 years away from helping him competing for rings ; they'll likely trade Wiggins to Minnesota.


Last edited by Luke on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject:

Without the BS of the media, Love to Cleveland after Lebron committed was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

You'd need to have been drinking some serious quantity of kool-aid to believe any other team was even close to the #1 pick in value or that he wasn't on the table.

But then people really believed Melo was going to take less money to go anywhere

But tbh, these last few free agent circuses have taught me one thing, free agency is really boring but the media needs something to write about so every mole hill is a part of himalayas.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject:

Telleris wrote:


But then people really believed Melo was going to take less money to go anywhere



Melo was really interested in going to the Bulls, because they were the only contending team in his eyes worth taking less money. The real problem was the franchise player.

Derrick Rose wanted Gasol and not Melo, and , what happened ? Gasol took a paycut to play there...


Quote:
The latest example was the Bulls’ pursuit of free agent Carmelo Anthony.

Looking back, it’s clear Rose wasn’t all that interested in teaming with Anthony, who chose to return to the New York Knicks. Rose was much more aggressive in the Bulls’ pursuit of free agent Pau Gasol, not only asking for the veteran’s phone number, but giving a hard sell to the big man on joining the Bulls.

So why Gasol and not Anthony?

“That’s someone that I knew I could play with,’’ Rose said of Gasol. “You think about Pau, him now being in the East, what he’ll be able to achieve with the way we play, the way we dump the ball in the post a lot. It could be great.’


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/28980523-579/exclusive-derrick-rose-discusses-growing-tension-between-himself-and-bulls.html#.U9r4DaPCewQ
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:02 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't see why Cleveland would have to give up Wiggins in order to get Love.


I've been saying this myself. As long as golden state isn't offering Thompson I can't see a team offering a combination of young players Bennett , waiters and Thompson and draft picks. The closer it gets to the deadline minny is going to have to pull the trigger


I wonder if the Lakers are still thinking about Love. I'm not advocating it, but if that's all Minny could get for Love, then a Randle trade would be their best option.

But to answer GT's question, they have to give up Wiggins to get Love because that's who Minny wants. Minny holds all the cards. They don't have to trade Love to Cleveland, they don't have to trade him at all.


They can hang onto him all season and watch him walk out the door for nothing. Sound familiar?
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lakers0505
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't see why Cleveland would have to give up Wiggins in order to get Love.


I've been saying this myself. As long as golden state isn't offering Thompson I can't see a team offering a combination of young players Bennett , waiters and Thompson and draft picks. The closer it gets to the deadline minny is going to have to pull the trigger


I wonder if the Lakers are still thinking about Love. I'm not advocating it, but if that's all Minny could get for Love, then a Randle trade would be their best option.

But to answer GT's question, they have to give up Wiggins to get Love because that's who Minny wants. Minny holds all the cards. They don't have to trade Love to Cleveland, they don't have to trade him at all.


They can hang onto him all season and watch him walk out the door for nothing. Sound familiar?


They can threaten to trade him to GS. I don't think Taylor and Flip are the sharpest tools in the shed either, but based on the Cavaliers FO situation, they'll get Wiggins and more imo.

Lebron has Cleveland by the balls, to be frank. Wiggins is going somewhere for someone.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:22 am    Post subject:

mt.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:32 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't see why Cleveland would have to give up Wiggins in order to get Love.


Because T-Wolves have them over a barrel. Because they know what Lebron is demanding from the Cavs. If all trades are equal with no stand-outs then the Wolves will just deal him to Bulls or Warrirors.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject:

While I like Wiggins, his game has major flaws. He can't dribble right now. I mean, his dribble is astonishingly bad for a top prospect. He can't go left at all. His court vision doesn't seem anywhere close to elite, and neither does his passing ability. I have major concerns about him becoming a top player in the league. He has a ton of work to do to get anywhere close to that, and a lot of things he isn't good at tend to be the types of things you rarely develop, even with an elite work ethic.

And if your ceiling as a number one pick is as a 3&D player and you can be traded for Kevin Love, one of the top ten players in the game, that's a no brainer to me. Kevin Love is 25 and one of the best players in the league. Wiggins may someday become one of the best players in the league, but that's by no means a sure thing.

Personally, I like Waiters better as a fit for the Cavs at the two anyway. He lacks Wiggins' elite athleticism, but he's already proven to be a great spot up three point shooter (41.6% last season when spotting up), but he also has absolutely elite handles (one of the best first steps in the league...kid can get by anyone) and very good passing ability.

Let's just put it this way...an Irving-Waiters-James-Love-Varejao line-up is the best passing line-up in the league, and it's not particularly close. That line-up might break the points per possession stat.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:52 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
I think Wiggins has stud potential, but how long will it take to get there. Love is a proven stud and it's not like he's old (only 25). LeBron's window to win is now.

Yes, but it highly unlikely he wins now on a bad defensive team or not elite defensive team. Trading Wiggins (and many other players, but mainly Wiggins) for Love helps their O in the short run (maybe even longrun) but hurts on D. I don't see where Love fits defensively on a championship caliber team without a great anchor, which CLE does not have.

If CLE had an anchor, okay. As is? Love would need to play the Bosh role, and I think he won't provide the impact on D.

Still CLE can always operate from the POV get the stud talent now, and worry about adding the C later. They still have more assets in place to make moves. Like I've said throughout, I understand why CLE is doing this. Just if it were the Lakers, I wouldn't want them to do that. Of course I don't need to worry about having lots of talent to contemplate trading to form a contender, for a long time in Laker land.
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