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KeepItRealOrElse
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 Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Rondo, Westbrook, Drose, Bledsoe. .. some of the fastest paced players in the league. all busted their knees
sure, whole teams play at similar paces as these players.^ but, these players also navigate the half court/do more work in the half court than their teammates.
Last edited by KeepItRealOrElse on Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe needed 3 knee surgeries playing in the Triangle. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Xavier's knee injury intrigued me. his euro step, is a pretty violent step/plant. i wonder if that contributed to his MCL problem |
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misterioso
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Janggoon8 wrote: | | I'll always blame D'antoni for Kobe's injury. Didn't have the balls to sit him down or monitor his minutes. 45.5 mpg in his last 7 games leading up to his injury. |
I hated the guy too, but you can't put it all on D'Antoni. There's 3 other guys who had a say in Kobe's minutes: Vitti, Mitch, and Jim. The danger signs were so readily evident when Kobe went to get checked for a left heel bone spur and immediately afterwards, MDA cranks up Kobe minutes.
Obviously, the FO put their blinders on. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Also look at wade. He played a reckless style of play for years and he basically fell off a cliff starting at age 32
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Vin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| misterioso wrote: | | Janggoon8 wrote: | | I'll always blame D'antoni for Kobe's injury. Didn't have the balls to sit him down or monitor his minutes. 45.5 mpg in his last 7 games leading up to his injury. |
I hated the guy too, but you can't put it all on D'Antoni. There's 3 other guys who had a say in Kobe's minutes: Vitti, Mitch, and Jim. The danger signs were so readily evident when Kobe went to get checked for a left heel bone spur and immediately afterwards, MDA cranks up Kobe minutes. |
Only guy that really had a say in Kobe's minutes is Kobe himself. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Goldenwest wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | I believe it. The empirical data does not lie. you have two years under the faster pace and 50-100 % or more injuries compared to the previous 4 years? That's a good enough sample size.
We lost D12 and Pau because of this, but we'll re-group; MDA is gone. The only real loss is Kobe getting got caught big time in the whirlwind. This probably shortened his career. |
The data does not lie, but the interpretation does.
We weren't even the fastest paced team in the league. I believe the 76ers were.
Plus, which injuries that we sustained last year, can be reasonably attributed to pace? Kobe's knee injury?! |
They didn't have to be the fastest paced team to sustain all these injuries. But they were a high tempo fast paced team. Much faster than the years before MDA. They were jacking shots well within the shot clock almost always. Maybe not always 7 seconds or less but close. Faster pace meant more running up and down the court in the game. I'm sure it wore Pau down, maybe Young, x, and Meeks also. I think guys like Pau and Kobe were wrong for this pace. Maybe the other injuries could partly be attributed to lack of conditioning.
Faster pace means more energy expended, more energy expended means more stress on the body. More stress means more strain.
I definitely believe pace had a lot to do with it. It wasn't coincidence. |
No one other than Meeks played more than 33 MPG last year and Meeks was probably the healthiest every day player.
On paper, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Although, I suppose some could argue that when you play a slow pace and pepper in fast breaks, that that could cause injuries too since you're not always moving around at the same pace.
I don't think many of our injuries can be directly attributable to pace though. A lot of them were contact injuries. These aren't incidents where people are running up and down the court and tearing hamstrings and such. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: |
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http://www.nba.com/coachfile/gary_vitti/index.html?nav=page
Got to side with the guy who's been an NBA athletic trainer for 3 decades.There aren't many people more qualified than Vitti when discussing sports injuries. You could probably count them on 1 hand.
I was saying the same thing repeatedly last year. We played at the 2nd fastest pace in the league with a team that had less than 10 people healthy for most of the season.
It's mind boggling that we played at a faster pace than the Thunder, Clippers, Golden State, and Miami. Those teams had a much better roster for a fast paced system. Yet we still played faster than them. Oftentimes with a limited rotation. There were to many injuries for it to be just coincidence or bad luck.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | http://www.nba.com/coachfile/gary_vitti/index.html?nav=page
Got to side with the guy who's been an NBA athletic trainer for 3 decades.There aren't many people more qualified than Vitti. You could probably count them on 1 hand.
I was saying the same thing repeatedly last year. We played at the 2nd fastest pace in the league with a team that had less than 10 people healthy for most of the season.
It's mind boggling that we played at a faster pace than the Thunder, Clippers, Golden State, and Miami. Those teams had a much better roster for a fast paced system. Yet we still played faster than them, oftentimes with a limited rotation. There were to many injuries for it to be just coincidence or bad luck. |
But we had no one that played heavy minutes. What's worse? Playing 40 MPG every night at a slow pace, or playing 8 MPG at a fast pace? If it's all pace, it should be the 8 MPG because of fast pace.
I think, people are just trying to find an explanation for last year because as you said, there were so many there must be an explanation!
To me, it seems like an aberration (and it was, relative to other years). I mean, the guy who played the most MPG on our team was one of the healthiest guys. LOL. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | http://www.nba.com/coachfile/gary_vitti/index.html?nav=page
Got to side with the guy who's been an NBA athletic trainer for 3 decades.There aren't many people more qualified than Vitti. You could probably count them on 1 hand.
I was saying the same thing repeatedly last year. We played at the 2nd fastest pace in the league with a team that had less than 10 people healthy for most of the season.
It's mind boggling that we played at a faster pace than the Thunder, Clippers, Golden State, and Miami. Those teams had a much better roster for a fast paced system. Yet we still played faster than them, oftentimes with a limited rotation. There were to many injuries for it to be just coincidence or bad luck. |
But we had no one that played heavy minutes. What's worse? Playing 40 MPG every night at a slow pace, or playing 8 MPG at a fast pace? If it's all pace, it should be the 8 MPG because of fast pace.
I think, people are just trying to find an explanation for last year because as you said, there were so many there must be an explanation!
To me, it seems like an aberration (and it was, relative to other years). I mean, the guy who played the most MPG on our team was one of the healthiest guys. LOL. |
False equivalency. Same minutes at a slow and at a fast pace makes more sense for the argument. And if that the case. I agree with Vitti.
He knows more about NBA injuries than either you or I. He's watched 30 years of NBA games from the sideline. He sees player fatigue first hand. If he said pace made no difference. I would agree with him. His resume speaks for itself.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | http://www.nba.com/coachfile/gary_vitti/index.html?nav=page
Got to side with the guy who's been an NBA athletic trainer for 3 decades.There aren't many people more qualified than Vitti. You could probably count them on 1 hand.
I was saying the same thing repeatedly last year. We played at the 2nd fastest pace in the league with a team that had less than 10 people healthy for most of the season.
It's mind boggling that we played at a faster pace than the Thunder, Clippers, Golden State, and Miami. Those teams had a much better roster for a fast paced system. Yet we still played faster than them, oftentimes with a limited rotation. There were to many injuries for it to be just coincidence or bad luck. |
But we had no one that played heavy minutes. What's worse? Playing 40 MPG every night at a slow pace, or playing 8 MPG at a fast pace? If it's all pace, it should be the 8 MPG because of fast pace.
I think, people are just trying to find an explanation for last year because as you said, there were so many there must be an explanation!
To me, it seems like an aberration (and it was, relative to other years). I mean, the guy who played the most MPG on our team was one of the healthiest guys. LOL. |
False equivalency. Same minutes at a slow and at a fast pace makes more sense for the argument. And if that the case. I agree with Vitti.
He knows more about NBA injuries than either you or I. He's watched 30 years of NBA games from the sideline. He sees player fatigue first hand. If he said pace made no difference. I would agree with him. His resume speaks for itself. |
I agree. But he has incentive to say it is pace. You or I don't. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
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It's kind of funny how many people think they understand player injuries more than Gary Vitti does.
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Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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mettaElbow
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| it does, but i do question the levle of competencies of laker medical staff, no dantoni team had suffered the fafte of having fewer than 5 players on court |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Vitti is just trying to deflect blame |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mettaElbow wrote: | | it does, but i do question the levle of competencies of laker medical staff, no dantoni team had suffered the fafte of having fewer than 5 players on court |
True. But no Gary Vitti team had the fate of having fewer than 5 players on the court prior to D'Antoni as well.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | Vitti is just trying to deflect blame |
I guess the same could be said about all medical experts who review their patients/clients medical history.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | mettaElbow wrote: | | it does, but i do question the levle of competencies of laker medical staff, no dantoni team had suffered the fafte of having fewer than 5 players on court |
True. But no Gary Vitti team had the fate of having fewer than 5 players on the court prior to D'Antoni as well. |
Doesn't this go to show that there is really no way to accurately point the finger one way or the other?
We're a bunch of smart people here. For things to be ruled out as a coincidence, we'd need to see them occurring over a much longer period of time. We won't get that with MDA gone, but, whether the injuries were a result of pace, age, minutes, bad luck, style or some combination of all of those, we'll never really know. |
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