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Fallout
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DaMuleRules
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 Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Good to know that Air Force One was being escorted by unarmed planes that day. |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| wow no combat ready planes available near our nation's capital?? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | wow no combat ready planes available near our nation's capital?? |
Remember, this was pre-9/11 (obviously). It doesn't surprise that they didn't have armed jets ready to scramble at a moments notice, even near DC. |
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rwongega
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | wow no combat ready planes available near our nation's capital?? |
Remember, this was pre-9/11 (obviously). It doesn't surprise that they didn't have armed jets ready to scramble at a moments notice, even near DC. |
Hate that readiness is only amped up after a devastating event. |
Readiness costs money. The military was starting to get looked at as a big, expensive, and not completely necessary institution. |
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PrairieAve
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Joined: 23 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | wow no combat ready planes available near our nation's capital?? |
Remember, this was pre-9/11 (obviously). It doesn't surprise that they didn't have armed jets ready to scramble at a moments notice, even near DC. |
Hate that readiness is only amped up after a devastating event. |
Readiness costs money. The military was starting to get looked at as a big, expensive, and not completely necessary institution. |
Even when there may have been more terror attacks on US soil in the 90s (WTC 1993 attack, OKC bombing, Olympic park bombing, the Unabomber mystery) than in the 2000s. Readiness might have foiled at least one 9/11 highjacking.
In the mid-90s, I remember reading a Tom Clancy novel about the White House being attacked by a commercial airliner, so 9/11 wasn't a plot that was completely unexpected.
Last edited by PrairieAve on Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tlim
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting reading the comments on the article with some folks who claim to have been in the air force.
Multiple different people claim to know information and that it's standard practice to have a minimum of 2, sometimes 4 armed planes at all times and has been for some time.
Perhaps the planes that were protecting Air Force One were the armed ones and that was it and they had to deal with unarmed ones after that? |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | wow no combat ready planes available near our nation's capital?? |
Remember, this was pre-9/11 (obviously). It doesn't surprise that they didn't have armed jets ready to scramble at a moments notice, even near DC. |
Hate that readiness is only amped up after a devastating event. |
Readiness costs money. The military was starting to get looked at as a big, expensive, and not completely necessary institution. |
I'm sure thats working out really well for countries in Europe and Asia right now. |
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thesource
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | Interesting reading the comments on the article with some folks who claim to have been in the air force.
Multiple different people claim to know information and that it's standard practice to have a minimum of 2, sometimes 4 armed planes at all times and has been for some time.
Perhaps the planes that were protecting Air Force One were the armed ones and that was it and they had to deal with unarmed ones after that? |
I have a family member in the airforce. I won't claim to be an expert or anything, but I can almost definitely say that there is a 0% chance that there aren't armed jets ready at a moments notice in the vicinity of Washington D.C.
Not saying those pilots weren't given that mission or that they are lying, just saying that there were armed planes somewhere and I'm more inclined to believe the plane was shot down than the story about the passengers taking it down. |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | wow no combat ready planes available near our nation's capital?? |
Remember, this was pre-9/11 (obviously). It doesn't surprise that they didn't have armed jets ready to scramble at a moments notice, even near DC. |
i know that was pre-9/11. but the complacency is still stunning. I dont expect troops to be patrolling our coast lines and borders nonstop but at the very least I would expect some jets on standby ready to defend the nation's capital (the most likely and valuable target of a surprise attack). |
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SP_Fever
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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so what would happen if they refused to do so? will they have gone to jail?
_________________
Phil Jackson (June 17th, 2009):"What was our model of this team? The Ring, the ring, that was the model. Its not just this band of gold, its the circle that's made a bond between all of these players, a great love for one another, its a great feeling." |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| There were a lot of planes in the air that morning. What makes this plane unique is that it was loaded with training dummies implying that all of the other planes were not loaded with training dummies. The point of the article is not that the millitary was unprepared, but that this crew was willing to go to extraordinary lengths to execute their orders. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
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She was ready to give her life on 9/11 in ‘kamikaze’ bid to down hijacked jet
LINK
| Quote: | "Lucky, you're coming with me," barked Col. Marc Sasseville.
They were gearing up in the pre-flight life-support area when Sasseville, struggling into his flight suit, met her eye.
"I'm going to go for the cockpit," Sasseville said.
She replied without hesitating.
"I'll take the tail."
It was a plan. And a pact.
"LET'S GO!"
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Do you really want the Air Force flying planes with live munitions over civilian areas daily? It takes less time to load a plane with armaments than most would think. Last year when the President was on his way to Seattle, a private plane violated the 20 mile TRF around Air Force One and 2 F-15's were loaded with missiles and launched from just outside Portland Oregon and were in Seattle in under 15 minutes from receiving orders. 911 lines lit up like a Christmas tree because of the sonic booms when they went supersonic.
| Quote: | May 2007 Two F-16 pilots from the 177th New Jersey Air National Guard are flying their fighters over the Warren Grove target range when one of the pilots launche s several flares during a low-level pass. The flares trigger a 17,250-acre forest fire.
July 2006 A B-52 bomber from the 2nd Bomb Wing at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana is on a routine training mission and drop s nine BDU-50 practice bombs outside the Smoky Hill Air National Guard Range in Salina, Kan. The inert devices land in a lake.
November 2004 An Air Force F-16 pilot based at Andrews Air Force Base near Washington, D.C., accidentally fires 27 training rounds of 20 mm ammunition at a school in New Jersey. Eight rounds punch through the school's roof, knocking down ceiling tiles. At least one strikes a desk, and others scuff the asphalt in the parking lot. Custodians are inside the building, but no one is injured. This is not the first accident involving the Warren Grove range, which is used by Andrews, that was felt outside its borders. In 1999, a practice bomb that fell outside the range sparked a fire, burning more than 11,000 acres in the Pine Barrens. In 2001, an errant practice bomb caused a fire that scorched 1,600 acres.
October 2004 A jet fighter accidentally drop s a 25- pound practice bomb on a hiking trail a mile from its intended target in southeastern Pennsylvania. No one is injured when the grapefruit-size bomb falls on Oct. 13 during a training mission for a pair of Pennsylvania Air National Guard A-10 Thunderbolts.
June 2003 A Barksdale-based B-52 in a training flight at the Godoria Range in the nation of Djibouti, in the Horn of Africa, drop s nine 750-pound M117 unguided bombs on an observation post rather than the target. The blasts kill U.S. Marine Capt. Seth Michaud, a helicopter pilot, and injure eight other U.S. military personnel. In addition, two CH-53E helicopters are destroyed.
May 2003 An Air Force student drop s an inert bomb while flying a training mission over the Dare County, N.C., bombing range. The bomb, which has a charge to release smoke for tracking hits, land s in an area not groomed for practice. A 2,600-acre wildfire southwest of Stumpy Point breaks out. The pilot is flying an F-15E Strike Eagle from Seymour Johnson Air Force Base at Goldsboro. Small fires, typically smaller than one-tenth of an acre, are common on the bombing range.
July 2002 An Air Force F-117A Nighthawk fighter drops three dummy bombs in west Texas. No one is injured, but one of the 25-pound practice bombs crashes through the roof of a home in Monahans and smashes into a bedroom closet. Two other inert bombs fall alongside roads in nearby towns.
October 2000 A Navy F/A-18 Hornet fighter from Luke Air Force Base drops a practice bomb into a salvage truck repair yard in El Mirage, Ariz.
December 1999 Golfers are lined up at the 17th tee at an Arizona golf course when a practice bomb whistles off the wing of an Air Force F-16 fighter jet stationed at nearby Luke Air Force Base. The 25- pound, 23-inch-long device explodes when it hits the desert floor just east of the fairway. No injuries are reported. |
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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dvdrdiscs
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 6274
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | wow no combat ready planes available near our nation's capital?? |
Didn't they say that on the morning of 9/11, the normal defense around Washington was actually scaled down? I remember reading it on a conspiracy theory as proof that the government knew about the hijackers. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | Do you really want the Air Force flying planes with live munitions over civilian areas daily? It takes less time to load a plane with armaments than most would think. Last year when the President was on his way to Seattle, a private plane violated the 20 mile TRF around Air Force One and 2 F-15's were loaded with missiles and launched from just outside Portland Oregon and were in Seattle in under 15 minutes from receiving orders. 911 lines lit up like a Christmas tree because of the sonic booms when they went supersonic.
| Quote: | May 2007 Two F-16 pilots from the 177th New Jersey Air National Guard are flying their fighters over the Warren Grove target range when one of the pilots launche s several flares during a low-level pass. The flares trigger a 17,250-acre forest fire.
July 2006 A B-52 bomber from the 2nd Bomb Wing at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana is on a routine training mission and drop s nine BDU-50 practice bombs outside the Smoky Hill Air National Guard Range in Salina, Kan. The inert devices land in a lake.
November 2004 An Air Force F-16 pilot based at Andrews Air Force Base near Washington, D.C., accidentally fires 27 training rounds of 20 mm ammunition at a school in New Jersey. Eight rounds punch through the school's roof, knocking down ceiling tiles. At least one strikes a desk, and others scuff the asphalt in the parking lot. Custodians are inside the building, but no one is injured. This is not the first accident involving the Warren Grove range, which is used by Andrews, that was felt outside its borders. In 1999, a practice bomb that fell outside the range sparked a fire, burning more than 11,000 acres in the Pine Barrens. In 2001, an errant practice bomb caused a fire that scorched 1,600 acres.
October 2004 A jet fighter accidentally drop s a 25- pound practice bomb on a hiking trail a mile from its intended target in southeastern Pennsylvania. No one is injured when the grapefruit-size bomb falls on Oct. 13 during a training mission for a pair of Pennsylvania Air National Guard A-10 Thunderbolts.
June 2003 A Barksdale-based B-52 in a training flight at the Godoria Range in the nation of Djibouti, in the Horn of Africa, drop s nine 750-pound M117 unguided bombs on an observation post rather than the target. The blasts kill U.S. Marine Capt. Seth Michaud, a helicopter pilot, and injure eight other U.S. military personnel. In addition, two CH-53E helicopters are destroyed.
May 2003 An Air Force student drop s an inert bomb while flying a training mission over the Dare County, N.C., bombing range. The bomb, which has a charge to release smoke for tracking hits, land s in an area not groomed for practice. A 2,600-acre wildfire southwest of Stumpy Point breaks out. The pilot is flying an F-15E Strike Eagle from Seymour Johnson Air Force Base at Goldsboro. Small fires, typically smaller than one-tenth of an acre, are common on the bombing range.
July 2002 An Air Force F-117A Nighthawk fighter drops three dummy bombs in west Texas. No one is injured, but one of the 25-pound practice bombs crashes through the roof of a home in Monahans and smashes into a bedroom closet. Two other inert bombs fall alongside roads in nearby towns.
October 2000 A Navy F/A-18 Hornet fighter from Luke Air Force Base drops a practice bomb into a salvage truck repair yard in El Mirage, Ariz.
December 1999 Golfers are lined up at the 17th tee at an Arizona golf course when a practice bomb whistles off the wing of an Air Force F-16 fighter jet stationed at nearby Luke Air Force Base. The 25- pound, 23-inch-long device explodes when it hits the desert floor just east of the fairway. No injuries are reported. |
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Hehe, Hehe, boys will be boys..... 
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67714
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Good to know that Air Force One was being escorted by unarmed planes that day. |
Pretty sure when the were escorting Air Force One they had landed and loaded up prior to the escort duties. | Quote: | | Hours later the two pilots would learn that the passengers of United 93 had already done what the pilots themselves were prepared to do. The pair flew sorties all day, and later, escorted Air Force One back to Washington. |
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Fan0Bynum17
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Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 15436
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Good to know that Air Force One was being escorted by unarmed planes that day. |
No, presidents are too irreplaceable. If they die, where are you going to get another president? The president store? Think McFly, think! |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Good to know that Air Force One was being escorted by unarmed planes that day. |
No, presidents are too irreplaceable. If they die, where are you going to get another president? The president store? Think McFly, think! |
Actually a President can be replaced in less time than it takes to replace the starter on your car.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67714
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Good to know that Air Force One was being escorted by unarmed planes that day. |
No, presidents are too irreplaceable. If they die, where are you going to get another president? The president store? Think McFly, think! |
Actually a President can be replaced in less time than it takes to replace the starter on your car. |
White House Down 
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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