"Old" Kobe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject:

I guess it's that time of year to remind everyone to discuss the topic and NOT other posters. Thanks.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:46 am    Post subject:

CBaller8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
CBaller8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I was just watching the Lakers v. 76ers Finals (Game 5). Kobe was just a maniacal beast, getting every loose ball, outwitting savvy defenders like Snow/McKie with superior footwork, etc. Just an amazing player and a joy to watch all these years.

It's natural. Great players will decline. It's sad but inevitable. I'm preparing to see the next evolution of Kobe while some choose to think he will defy time and remain the force he was pre-injuries, age.


I see you were watching NBA TV just like me.


Yeah. Had it recorded. Such a vivid series for me. Had just graduated college (went to school in Philly after living in LA my whole life) and the trash talk from AI fans in Philly was so ridiculous. AI played his mind out but that team was pure garbage.

But Fisher (clutch city), excellent PFs in Grant/Horry, great role players in guys like Fox, etc., what a beautiful team (let alone Kobe/Shaq).


Yeah, good stuff. But those bars on SD footage kills me. I need remastered games Lol


Yeah. My wife was looking at it too and made the same comment. I guess the lack of clarity is helpful to Shaq and his waistline?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject:

KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Man this has turned into a Yinoma hate thread.

Yinoma is just realistic peeps ... I agree that I would be happy to see Kobe put up 20/5/4 at this point in his career after 2 major injuries.

But if he's putting up 25/5/5 then I will be even happier.


Well, you and he and some others think he is realistic. Others do not. Hence the discord.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
At this point, after one of the most painful offseasons in recent memory, and before the season starts all we really have is some semblance of hope that we'll get some part of Kobe back.

People like yinoma are here to inject doubt and rob us even of that.


I guess you don't get the irony of the criticisms. People criticized my post re: OP's quote, when I said "I hope." So I was being optimistic too, and people criticized that. Do you not see the irony there?


IF KOBE IS HEALTHY and stays healthy he can still average 25ppg without a doubt. To say he cannot if he is healthy is absurd and just means you don't know his skill level or you underestimate his skill level.

Even with limiting his minutes to 35...were looking at 24 to 25 a game.

The Achilles injury may affect his lift which isn't a big deal.

I don't think defense is a issue. We put Kobe on their weak/slow players and let Wesley, X, etc.use their young legs. No need to put wear on Kobe on the defensive end. Lebron/KD don't guard the best player the whole game either..and that's because their coach is smart.


I guess it depends on your definition of healthy.

He won't ever be as healthy as he was pre-injury. It is a guarantee that he will be less than 100% of what he was pre-injury.

Whether that is 1% or 99% has yet to be seen.

I mean, if he's 100% healthy, why couldn't he have another 36 PPG season like he did in 2006? Why downgrade him to 25 PPG?



You have absolutely no proof whatsoever of that.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:27 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Man this has turned into a Yinoma hate thread.

Yinoma is just realistic peeps ... I agree that I would be happy to see Kobe put up 20/5/4 at this point in his career after 2 major injuries.

But if he's putting up 25/5/5 then I will be even happier.


Well, you and he and some others think he is realistic. Others do not. Hence the discord.


Sure. And you deal with the disagreement in a nice manner without resorting to insults. Honestly, if I'm wrong about my projections, then at least I'm batting .500, and so would you! So, it's all good. I do want to see a healthy Kobe for 70+ games, that's really mostly what I want to see over statistics. (IIRC, less than 5-6 players in the NBA hit 20-22/5/5 last season, so that tells you how good I think Kobe will still be when I use this prediction). We are really debating whether Kobe will be a top 5% player or a top 1% player basically.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:29 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
golaker wrote:
25-5-5 from kobe. Ringfinger and yinoma will claim they're ecstatic and they knew it all along. 48 days.


If you've carefully read any of my comments (and it seems you haven't based on this), I've given plenty of reasons why this is unlikely to happen (reduced minutes, sharing a little bit of the load with teammates, etc.).

So you don't have to make up stuff, it's all out there for you. As I've said, I would be glad to be wrong, but my guess is based on the reasons I've outlined in my posts.

But whatever floats your boat.



I guess my question to you would be why would you go to such lengths unless you've some skin in the game on Kobe being what you think is "realistic?"

Why not make your prediction and call it a day instead of trying to steal anyone's optimism who dares to believe that Kobe will be better than you believe?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
golaker wrote:
25-5-5 from kobe. Ringfinger and yinoma will claim they're ecstatic and they knew it all along. 48 days.


If you've carefully read any of my comments (and it seems you haven't based on this), I've given plenty of reasons why this is unlikely to happen (reduced minutes, sharing a little bit of the load with teammates, etc.).

So you don't have to make up stuff, it's all out there for you. As I've said, I would be glad to be wrong, but my guess is based on the reasons I've outlined in my posts.

But whatever floats your boat.



I guess my question to you would be why would you go to such lengths unless you've some skin in the game on Kobe being what you think is "realistic?"

Why not make your prediction and call it a day instead of trying to steal anyone's optimism who dares to believe that Kobe will be better than you believe?


You have to read the thread. My post to the OP was "I hope so too" in sharing in the optimism that Kobe comes back strong. Immediately thereafter, you have folks attacking my comment so it's not as if I was here picking a fight. As others noted, I've been consistent about my expectations for Kobe next year. So no, I didn't pick a fight here.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:32 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Man this has turned into a Yinoma hate thread.

Yinoma is just realistic peeps ... I agree that I would be happy to see Kobe put up 20/5/4 at this point in his career after 2 major injuries.

But if he's putting up 25/5/5 then I will be even happier.


Well, you and he and some others think he is realistic. Others do not. Hence the discord.


Sure. And you deal with the disagreement in a nice manner without resorting to insults. Honestly, if I'm wrong about my projections, then at least I'm batting .500, and so would you! So, it's all good. I do want to see a healthy Kobe for 70+ games, that's really mostly what I want to see over statistics. (IIRC, less than 5-6 players in the NBA hit 20-22/5/5 last season, so that tells you how good I think Kobe will still be when I use this prediction). We are really debating whether Kobe will be a top 5% player or a top 1% player basically.


Well, not quite. Kobe only had 6 games before a freak injury took him out. There is no way to know what he would have done if that didn't happen.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
golaker wrote:
25-5-5 from kobe. Ringfinger and yinoma will claim they're ecstatic and they knew it all along. 48 days.


If you've carefully read any of my comments (and it seems you haven't based on this), I've given plenty of reasons why this is unlikely to happen (reduced minutes, sharing a little bit of the load with teammates, etc.).

So you don't have to make up stuff, it's all out there for you. As I've said, I would be glad to be wrong, but my guess is based on the reasons I've outlined in my posts.

But whatever floats your boat.



I guess my question to you would be why would you go to such lengths unless you've some skin in the game on Kobe being what you think is "realistic?"

Why not make your prediction and call it a day instead of trying to steal anyone's optimism who dares to believe that Kobe will be better than you believe?


You have to read the thread. My post to the OP was "I hope so too" in sharing in the optimism that Kobe comes back strong. Immediately thereafter, you have folks attacking my comment so it's not as if I was here picking a fight. As others noted, I've been consistent about my expectations for Kobe next year. So no, I didn't pick a fight here.



Fair enough. In any case, time will show what's what. I look forward to Kobe proving you wrong as I'm sure you do as well.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:39 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Man this has turned into a Yinoma hate thread.

Yinoma is just realistic peeps ... I agree that I would be happy to see Kobe put up 20/5/4 at this point in his career after 2 major injuries.

But if he's putting up 25/5/5 then I will be even happier.


Well, you and he and some others think he is realistic. Others do not. Hence the discord.


Sure. And you deal with the disagreement in a nice manner without resorting to insults. Honestly, if I'm wrong about my projections, then at least I'm batting .500, and so would you! So, it's all good. I do want to see a healthy Kobe for 70+ games, that's really mostly what I want to see over statistics. (IIRC, less than 5-6 players in the NBA hit 20-22/5/5 last season, so that tells you how good I think Kobe will still be when I use this prediction). We are really debating whether Kobe will be a top 5% player or a top 1% player basically.


Well, not quite. Kobe only had 6 games before a freak injury took him out. There is no way to know what he would have done if that didn't happen.


Well, that's a pretty convenient way to look at it. The question is, did he come back last year and play a full season with Kobe-esque numbers? No. You can insert whatever reason but it is what it is.

I do AGREE with you that taking time off will do wonders for his body, ergo, my optimistic (of course we differ on that) expectation for him going forward.

Again, we are debating whether Kobe is a top 3 player or a top 15 player based on the predicted stats. I think we are actually far closer to each other than we think. It's folks who want to be hyperbolic about it (and don't actually read what I posted) that exaggerate or blow things out of proportion.

And yes, it's a new season so of course everyone's expectations should shift. He has gotten rest. He has admitted to feeling the sting of mortality last season. Which means he will be a better player this season. To that I resoundingly agree.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Man this has turned into a Yinoma hate thread.

Yinoma is just realistic peeps ... I agree that I would be happy to see Kobe put up 20/5/4 at this point in his career after 2 major injuries.

But if he's putting up 25/5/5 then I will be even happier.


Well, you and he and some others think he is realistic. Others do not. Hence the discord.


Sure. And you deal with the disagreement in a nice manner without resorting to insults. Honestly, if I'm wrong about my projections, then at least I'm batting .500, and so would you! So, it's all good. I do want to see a healthy Kobe for 70+ games, that's really mostly what I want to see over statistics. (IIRC, less than 5-6 players in the NBA hit 20-22/5/5 last season, so that tells you how good I think Kobe will still be when I use this prediction). We are really debating whether Kobe will be a top 5% player or a top 1% player basically.


Well, not quite. Kobe only had 6 games before a freak injury took him out. There is no way to know what he would have done if that didn't happen.


Well, that's a pretty convenient way to look at it. The question is, did he come back last year and play a full season with Kobe-esque numbers? No. You can insert whatever reason but it is what it is.

I do AGREE with you that taking time off will do wonders for his body, ergo, my optimistic (of course we differ on that) expectation for him going forward.

Again, we are debating whether Kobe is a top 3 player or a top 15 player based on the predicted stats. I think we are actually far closer to each other than we think. It's folks who want to be hyperbolic about it (and don't actually read what I posted) that exaggerate or blow things out of proportion.

And yes, it's a new season so of course everyone's expectations should shift. He has gotten rest. He has admitted to feeling the sting of mortality last season. Which means he will be a better player this season. To that I resoundingly agree.



Actually I disagree with you on this. Top 15 players are the best player on the court half the time they step foot on the floor while top 3 players are so 90% of the time. That's a huge difference. I think Kobe will still be the best player on the court save perhaps when the Lakers play the Cavs or Thunder. And I said perhaps because I think Kobe was as good or better than LBJ in the second half of 2012-2013 and definitely better than KD.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:52 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Man this has turned into a Yinoma hate thread.

Yinoma is just realistic peeps ... I agree that I would be happy to see Kobe put up 20/5/4 at this point in his career after 2 major injuries.

But if he's putting up 25/5/5 then I will be even happier.


Well, you and he and some others think he is realistic. Others do not. Hence the discord.


Sure. And you deal with the disagreement in a nice manner without resorting to insults. Honestly, if I'm wrong about my projections, then at least I'm batting .500, and so would you! So, it's all good. I do want to see a healthy Kobe for 70+ games, that's really mostly what I want to see over statistics. (IIRC, less than 5-6 players in the NBA hit 20-22/5/5 last season, so that tells you how good I think Kobe will still be when I use this prediction). We are really debating whether Kobe will be a top 5% player or a top 1% player basically.


Well, not quite. Kobe only had 6 games before a freak injury took him out. There is no way to know what he would have done if that didn't happen.


Well, that's a pretty convenient way to look at it. The question is, did he come back last year and play a full season with Kobe-esque numbers? No. You can insert whatever reason but it is what it is.

I do AGREE with you that taking time off will do wonders for his body, ergo, my optimistic (of course we differ on that) expectation for him going forward.

Again, we are debating whether Kobe is a top 3 player or a top 15 player based on the predicted stats. I think we are actually far closer to each other than we think. It's folks who want to be hyperbolic about it (and don't actually read what I posted) that exaggerate or blow things out of proportion.

And yes, it's a new season so of course everyone's expectations should shift. He has gotten rest. He has admitted to feeling the sting of mortality last season. Which means he will be a better player this season. To that I resoundingly agree.



Actually I disagree with you on this. Top 15 players are the best player on the court half the time they step foot on the floor while top 3 players are so 90% of the time. That's a huge difference. I think Kobe will still be the best player on the court save perhaps when the Lakers play the Cavs or Thunder. And I said perhaps because I think Kobe was as good or better than LBJ in the second half of 2012-2013 and definitely better than KD.


And that's fine. I could care less about the distinction so long as we have Kobe playing a majority of the games. And of course I would love if Kobe played the way you described, because that means the Lakers are likely winning then!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:28 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
Man this has turned into a Yinoma hate thread.

Yinoma is just realistic peeps ... I agree that I would be happy to see Kobe put up 20/5/4 at this point in his career after 2 major injuries.

But if he's putting up 25/5/5 then I will be even happier.


Well, you and he and some others think he is realistic. Others do not. Hence the discord.


Sure. And you deal with the disagreement in a nice manner without resorting to insults. Honestly, if I'm wrong about my projections, then at least I'm batting .500, and so would you! So, it's all good. I do want to see a healthy Kobe for 70+ games, that's really mostly what I want to see over statistics. (IIRC, less than 5-6 players in the NBA hit 20-22/5/5 last season, so that tells you how good I think Kobe will still be when I use this prediction). We are really debating whether Kobe will be a top 5% player or a top 1% player basically.


That is the only stat that matters to me, how many games this team gets with Kobe playing as well as he can. That is what will impact the season the most, not ppg or apg or rpg. Kobe will be the leader of this team and we need our leader as often as we can get him.
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