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Jeggs
Star Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 1659
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 Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Jeggs wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
4 straight NBA finals appearances. That's why Lebron cramped up. Not saying Leonard had nothing to do with it, but if you have to defend LBJ it helps to have him worn down to begin with. |
When you are at the level that Lebron James is supposedly at the player you are matched up against should NEVER EVER get finals MVP on you. |
Again, it has more to do with the wear and tear of 4 consecutive NBA Finals appearances than anything. It's no surprise Lebron was cramping up and limited. That has more to do with overuse than skill.
I get it. We'll pick any angle, however inconsistent, to play down LBJ. Doesn't make 4 straight finals appearances? He is not good enough. Does make it and lose? He is not good enough.
The fact remains almost no one ever makes 4 straight finals appearances. It's rarer than winning 3 straight. Kobe's never done it. Heck, MJ never did it.
If you have to face Lebron, you want to face him when he's worn down. I'm not telling you Kawhi doesn't deserve a lot of credit, he does, but let's be realistic about it. He matched up against an exhausted, cramping Lebron that was appearing in his 4th consecutive NBA Finals, a feat 99.9% of players never see themselves in. |
4 straight isn't that great of a feat since the eastern conference has sucked for quite some time. Kawhi tore Lebron a new one, get over it. |
The conference myth has already been debunked. There is nothing I can do if you also believe that the world is flat.
The bottom line is that in all of the years of the NBAs existence, reaching 4 straight finals has only happened 3 times I believe with Lebron's Heat being one of them. You know why it doesn't happen often? It's hard. |
Yep and playing with 2 other franchise players, one of which was Wade who already won a ring and a finals mvp before Lebron got there....
...Bosh...a proven franchise player....
Ray Allen...clutch / greatest 3 point shooter of all time....
Put a prime Kobe with that set up, and that weak eastern conference...and I would argue that you get that 3peat, and possibly, a 4peat. There is no way for example, that the spurs would beat a prime Kobe with that kind of support Lebron had. |
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Killakobe81
Star Player
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1604
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Jeggs wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Jeggs wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
4 straight NBA finals appearances. That's why Lebron cramped up. Not saying Leonard had nothing to do with it, but if you have to defend LBJ it helps to have him worn down to begin with. |
When you are at the level that Lebron James is supposedly at the player you are matched up against should NEVER EVER get finals MVP on you. |
Again, it has more to do with the wear and tear of 4 consecutive NBA Finals appearances than anything. It's no surprise Lebron was cramping up and limited. That has more to do with overuse than skill.
I get it. We'll pick any angle, however inconsistent, to play down LBJ. Doesn't make 4 straight finals appearances? He is not good enough. Does make it and lose? He is not good enough.
The fact remains almost no one ever makes 4 straight finals appearances. It's rarer than winning 3 straight. Kobe's never done it. Heck, MJ never did it.
If you have to face Lebron, you want to face him when he's worn down. I'm not telling you Kawhi doesn't deserve a lot of credit, he does, but let's be realistic about it. He matched up against an exhausted, cramping Lebron that was appearing in his 4th consecutive NBA Finals, a feat 99.9% of players never see themselves in. |
4 straight isn't that great of a feat since the eastern conference has sucked for quite some time. Kawhi tore Lebron a new one, get over it. |
The conference myth has already been debunked. There is nothing I can do if you also believe that the world is flat.
The bottom line is that in all of the years of the NBAs existence, reaching 4 straight finals has only happened 3 times I believe with Lebron's Heat being one of them. You know why it doesn't happen often? It's hard. |
Yep and playing with 2 other franchise players, one of which was Wade who already won a ring and a finals mvp before Lebron got there....
...Bosh...a proven franchise player....
Ray Allen...clutch / greatest 3 point shooter of all time....
Put a prime Kobe with that set up, and that weak eastern conference...and I would argue that you get that 3peat, and possibly, a 4peat. There is no way for example, that the spurs would beat a prime Kobe with that kind of support Lebron had. |
You might be right. But we have no way of knowing. I would say that the super friend era leaves a sour taste in my mouth. But we tried that in 2004 and it failed. So we will see how it shakes out. I respect his game and his talent but his mentality leaves me "cold" tbh.
Despite that still the best player in the game with KD the only one close. |
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L.A.M.B
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Treble Clef"] | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
The Spurs didnt win that series by shutting down LeBron. Did you watch the games?[/quote
Lebron always underperforms on the big stage.. Even in 2013 when they won |
You don't like him, that's all it is. These are the same terrible arguments people made about Kobe. |
It's really not it .. I mean, if u can't see that Lebron gets passive and is more prone to folding under pressure aka plays better when he has a comfortable lead and can be loose, then I duno what to tell you. Hopefully you gain perspective, because that's what it is, not just what I think. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="L.A.M.B"] | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
The Spurs didnt win that series by shutting down LeBron. Did you watch the games?[/quote
Lebron always underperforms on the big stage.. Even in 2013 when they won |
You don't like him, that's all it is. These are the same terrible arguments people made about Kobe. |
It's really not it .. I mean, if u can't see that Lebron gets passive and is more prone to folding under pressure aka plays better when he has a comfortable lead and can be loose, then I duno what to tell you. Hopefully you gain perspective, because that's what it is, not just what I think. |
Still can't help yourself eh?
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeggs wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | The conference myth has already been debunked. There is nothing I can do if you also believe that the world is flat.
The bottom line is that in all of the years of the NBAs existence, reaching 4 straight finals has only happened 3 times I believe with Lebron's Heat being one of them. You know why it doesn't happen often? It's hard. |
Yep and playing with 2 other franchise players, one of which was Wade who already won a ring and a finals mvp before Lebron got there....
...Bosh...a proven franchise player....
Ray Allen...clutch / greatest 3 point shooter of all time....
Put a prime Kobe with that set up, and that weak eastern conference...and I would argue that you get that 3peat, and possibly, a 4peat. There is no way for example, that the spurs would beat a prime Kobe with that kind of support Lebron had. |
Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. We can certainly dream.
I get that you're trying to find angles to tear LBJ down, and that's cool and all, but, it's beside the point.
My original point to the OTHER poster, was that appearing in 4 straight finals is exhausting and draining both mentally and physically. And so his struggles (if you can even call it that given his superior numbers in the finals) against Kawhi Leonard had more to do with being matched up against an exhausted and cramping Lebron, than it does with Kawhi being 'better' than Lebron or whatever.
I guess this is like people saying Keenan Allen "torched" Richard Sherman in the SEA/SD game. |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23912
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="L.A.M.B"] | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
The Spurs didnt win that series by shutting down LeBron. Did you watch the games?[/quote
Lebron always underperforms on the big stage.. Even in 2013 when they won |
You don't like him, that's all it is. These are the same terrible arguments people made about Kobe. |
It's really not it .. I mean, if u can't see that Lebron gets passive and is more prone to folding under pressure aka plays better when he has a comfortable lead and can be loose, then I duno what to tell you. Hopefully you gain perspective, because that's what it is, not just what I think. |
My perspective is that you keep changing your argument in order to find a way to criticize him.
He doesn't usually settle for his jumpshot at the end of games and he gets called cowardly for that but it seems to me that he usually ends up with a layup and if the lane is cut off, he passes out to the great shooters he is always surrounded with. |
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L.A.M.B
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Treble Clef"] | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
The Spurs didnt win that series by shutting down LeBron. Did you watch the games?[/quote
Lebron always underperforms on the big stage.. Even in 2013 when they won |
You don't like him, that's all it is. These are the same terrible arguments people made about Kobe. |
It's really not it .. I mean, if u can't see that Lebron gets passive and is more prone to folding under pressure aka plays better when he has a comfortable lead and can be loose, then I duno what to tell you. Hopefully you gain perspective, because that's what it is, not just what I think. |
My perspective is that you keep changing your argument in order to find a way to criticize him.
He doesn't usually settle for his jumpshot at the end of games and he gets called cowardly for that but it seems to me that he usually ends up with a layup and if the lane is cut off, he passes out to the great shooters he is always surrounded with. |
Watch with your third eye open.. He becomes way more passive when the pressure is on, and that's a fact. It baffles me how some don't see it. |
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L.A.M.B
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="24"] | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
The Spurs didnt win that series by shutting down LeBron. Did you watch the games?[/quote
Lebron always underperforms on the big stage.. Even in 2013 when they won |
You don't like him, that's all it is. These are the same terrible arguments people made about Kobe. |
It's really not it .. I mean, if u can't see that Lebron gets passive and is more prone to folding under pressure aka plays better when he has a comfortable lead and can be loose, then I duno what to tell you. Hopefully you gain perspective, because that's what it is, not just what I think. |
Still can't help yourself eh? |
Come on man, it's a debate. Think about it. |
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Den Sol
Rookie
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe Bryant rated an 89 in 2K15 |
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It is just a *safe* rating. The actual result after the season is said and done could have a big variance, could end up a 95, could also end up worse than 89...
| Who Takes The Blame wrote: | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JrvwkPkqpko/VBN8jLuENlI/AAAAAAAACks/ZXMQQRaiah8/s1600/nba2k15-player-ratings-lakers.png
Do you agree with his rating. I think its about right because you don't want to give somebody whos coming back from a serious knee injury a 90. Im sure Rose will be the same as Kobe also. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="L.A.M.B"] | 24 wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
The Spurs didnt win that series by shutting down LeBron. Did you watch the games?[/quote
Lebron always underperforms on the big stage.. Even in 2013 when they won |
You don't like him, that's all it is. These are the same terrible arguments people made about Kobe. |
It's really not it .. I mean, if u can't see that Lebron gets passive and is more prone to folding under pressure aka plays better when he has a comfortable lead and can be loose, then I duno what to tell you. Hopefully you gain perspective, because that's what it is, not just what I think. |
Still can't help yourself eh? |
Come on man, it's a debate. Think about it. |
You really don't get it do you?
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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L.A.M.B
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| I just think you're looking too deep into it ... It's not a personal insult or anything to get hurt over, but rather an opinion. would be nice if the mods took it easy and held the posters to the same regard as sports radio hosts. Nothing I said was out of line in a typical debate, and if it offends anyone, then I sincerely apologize. As long is the intent is not malicious, give us free speech and let us figure things out ourselves. we truly don't need this much policing. What's the difference between him saying "your arguments are terrible" and me saying "you need to gain perspective"?? Think about it.. I was also banned for arguing with ringdinger and RESPONDING to a personal insult he made towards me. The same guy who is notorious for following posters on this forum and arguing with them for pages with trollesque tactics. At the end of the day, we need to focus on the bigger things, such as helping this forum grow (ie: salary page is still set to 2008 salaries), as opposed to overreacting to petty one-liners from a thorough debate. I think I've been a solid enough contributor on this forum to the point where there's no need for my words to be taken out of context and overanalyzed. I do get it and in a perfect world, we'd all be treated equal, with mods only excersizing powers as a last resort. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| L.A.M.B wrote: | | I just think you're looking too deep into it ... It's not a personal insult or anything to get hurt over, but rather an opinion. would be nice if the mods took it easy and held the posters to the same regard as sports radio hosts. Nothing I said was out of line in a typical debate, and if it offends anyone, then I sincerely apologize. As long is the intent is not malicious, give us free speech and let us figure things out ourselves. we truly don't need this much policing. What's the difference between him saying "your arguments are terrible" and me saying "you need to gain perspective"?? Think about it.. I was also banned for arguing with ringdinger and RESPONDING to a personal insult he made towards me. The same guy who is notorious for following posters on this forum and arguing with them for pages with trollesque tactics. At the end of the day, we need to focus on the bigger things, such as helping this forum grow (ie: salary page is still set to 2008 salaries), as opposed to overreacting to petty one-liners from a thorough debate. I think I've been a solid enough contributor on this forum to the point where there's no need for my words to be taken out of context and overanalyzed. I do get it and in a perfect world, we'd all be treated equal, with mods only excersizing powers as a last resort. |
You need to gain some perspective...
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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 @ video game rating banter.
_________________
Music is my medicine |
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L.A.M.B
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | I just think you're looking too deep into it ... It's not a personal insult or anything to get hurt over, but rather an opinion. would be nice if the mods took it easy and held the posters to the same regard as sports radio hosts. Nothing I said was out of line in a typical debate, and if it offends anyone, then I sincerely apologize. As long is the intent is not malicious, give us free speech and let us figure things out ourselves. we truly don't need this much policing. What's the difference between him saying "your arguments are terrible" and me saying "you need to gain perspective"?? Think about it.. I was also banned for arguing with ringdinger and RESPONDING to a personal insult he made towards me. The same guy who is notorious for following posters on this forum and arguing with them for pages with trollesque tactics. At the end of the day, we need to focus on the bigger things, such as helping this forum grow (ie: salary page is still set to 2008 salaries), as opposed to overreacting to petty one-liners from a thorough debate. I think I've been a solid enough contributor on this forum to the point where there's no need for my words to be taken out of context and overanalyzed. I do get it and in a perfect world, we'd all be treated equal, with mods only excersizing powers as a last resort. |
You need to gain some perspective... |
LOL that's more like it brobro |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23912
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="L.A.M.B"] | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | lebron still a 98 after being shut down by leanord is a joke....he should've never gotten more than a 95 to begin with. whats the highest kobe's ever been rated? 97 in his absolute prime, right? ish is blasphemous. |
The Spurs didnt win that series by shutting down LeBron. Did you watch the games?[/quote
Lebron always underperforms on the big stage.. Even in 2013 when they won |
You don't like him, that's all it is. These are the same terrible arguments people made about Kobe. |
It's really not it .. I mean, if u can't see that Lebron gets passive and is more prone to folding under pressure aka plays better when he has a comfortable lead and can be loose, then I duno what to tell you. Hopefully you gain perspective, because that's what it is, not just what I think. |
My perspective is that you keep changing your argument in order to find a way to criticize him.
He doesn't usually settle for his jumpshot at the end of games and he gets called cowardly for that but it seems to me that he usually ends up with a layup and if the lane is cut off, he passes out to the great shooters he is always surrounded with. |
Watch with your third eye open.. He becomes way more passive when the pressure is on, and that's a fact. It baffles me how some don't see it. |
Don't all players look pretty underwhelming when you only judge them by their worst games? The difference is that the good players don't find themselves in that situation as often. |
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L.A.M.B
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know what that has to do with what I said? I never mentioned anything about judging a player by their worst game. All-time greats face the pressure head on and rise to the occasion when their backs are against the wall. LeBron doesn't. There's a reason why he has a losing record in the Finals, and it has nothing to do with being tired. Realistically, if not for Ray Allen's bail out three+Greg Popavich's epic choke-job, he'd be 1/5 right now in the Finals. it speaks more of his ability to step his play up when it matters most than you're willing to admit. |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23912
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| L.A.M.B wrote: | | I don't know what that has to do with what I said? I never mentioned anything about judging a player by their worst game. All-time greats face the pressure head on and rise to the occasion when their backs are against the wall. LeBron doesn't. There's a reason why he has a losing record in the Finals, and it has nothing to do with being tired. Realistically, if not for Ray Allen's bail out three+Greg Popavich's epic choke-job, he'd be 1/5 right now in the Finals. it speaks more of his ability to step his play up when it matters most than you're willing to admit. |
It has everything to do with what you said. You only want to judge him by how he deals with adversity. All of the good games and success are thrown out the window.
I don't care about finals record and I don't care about how many rings he gets. I don't think either stat is reliable for judging players. |
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L.A.M.B
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | I don't know what that has to do with what I said? I never mentioned anything about judging a player by their worst game. All-time greats face the pressure head on and rise to the occasion when their backs are against the wall. LeBron doesn't. There's a reason why he has a losing record in the Finals, and it has nothing to do with being tired. Realistically, if not for Ray Allen's bail out three+Greg Popavich's epic choke-job, he'd be 1/5 right now in the Finals. it speaks more of his ability to step his play up when it matters most than you're willing to admit. |
It has everything to do with what you said. You only want to judge him by how he deals with adversity. All of the good games and success are thrown out the window.
I don't care about finals record and I don't care about how many rings he gets. I don't think either stat is reliable for judging players. |
sorry to break it to you, but thats how all great players are judged....what can u do for me when it counts? that goes for everything in life. a lot of females are mariah carey in the shower, if u didnt know. if u dont think the stats that matter most are reliable for judging a players worth, then we should end this discussion here. |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23912
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| L.A.M.B wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | L.A.M.B wrote: | | I don't know what that has to do with what I said? I never mentioned anything about judging a player by their worst game. All-time greats face the pressure head on and rise to the occasion when their backs are against the wall. LeBron doesn't. There's a reason why he has a losing record in the Finals, and it has nothing to do with being tired. Realistically, if not for Ray Allen's bail out three+Greg Popavich's epic choke-job, he'd be 1/5 right now in the Finals. it speaks more of his ability to step his play up when it matters most than you're willing to admit. |
It has everything to do with what you said. You only want to judge him by how he deals with adversity. All of the good games and success are thrown out the window.
I don't care about finals record and I don't care about how many rings he gets. I don't think either stat is reliable for judging players. |
sorry to break it to you, but thats how all great players are judged....what can u do for me when it counts? that goes for everything in life. a lot of females are mariah carey in the shower, if u didnt know. if u dont think the stats that matter most are reliable for judging a players worth, then we should end this discussion here. |
Sounds like a good idea to me. |
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