How Mitch will rebuild the lakers...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:02 am    Post subject:

Just my opinion but I think Kobe and the FO understand the reality of his contract and the realistic expectations over the next couple of seasons. They are not contenders. And unless some unseen miracle trade occurs they will not be.

Kobe is the face of the franchise and will go out to the cheers. Both sides knew the ramifications of Kobe's contract. Both accepted the deal. But both have to realize the team will be rebuilding instead of contending.

Lakers need to start establishing some stability and a foundation. Not keep having a rotating roster of players to create salary space. Scott and a willing Kobe are a start. They have some nice young talent and some promising mid 20's talent to start build the base.

Lakers need to have a core group of players and a solid system to attract an elite free agent. In a couple of years it could interesting. But IMO it should be about acquiring assets until Kobe retires. Then use the cap space to add the final replacement piece or two.
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zoogz
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject:

Around what range do you guys think DeAndre Jordan will command this offseason?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject:

DimesnD wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would be enamored with Hibbert coming here? The dude checks out of meaningful games more than Pau. And Hibbert wants touches? At least when pau complains he has abilities to back it up.

Watching Hibbert try to find himself was one of the most appalling effort I've seen coming from a professional. Rebounding is an effort stat, Roy bageled twice and had multiple games of 2,3,4 rebounds. in their playoff run. That's completely unacceptable for Lakers big men standard. I'd rather take my chances with Hill, who I at least know will come out to play every single game.

Roy's post game is an atrocity. He is low IQ. Going after Gasol or Lopez and losing out would be better than having to be stuck with Roy's 15 mil/ yr contract.

Giving up our #1 is not buying low. Rebuilding the lakers? Let Nash salary expire, keep our #1, spend that 15 mil on somebody who will come to play. Indiana faltered because their cap space was locked by a starting big who was useless in the playoff. Had they traded for Kaman last year, they'd be in the finals.


If you want to limit it to one playoff sample size, sure. But the previous 2, he was downright dominant on defense (basically thwarting LBJ at the rim every time). As we saw, that Indiana self-destructed in the last month of the season and in the playoffs.

As we saw with free agency, no guarantees that Marc or Robin will come here, particularly when we can't offer a 5th year.

Hibbert wouldn't be for offensive purposes. It's the rim protection. We will sorely miss that this season.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject:

@yinoma

I'd rather take a short sample size from the latest effort than a longer sample size years ago. Things can change that fast. Nash for instance. In this case, Hibbert's mindset is shot. No confidence no player. At least Nash wilted because he's old. Roy wilted because he's a mental midget, something that would not mesh with Kobe.

And paying a guy $15 mil to only block shot is an utter waste. Indiana self destructed but everybody still played to their abilities, and they all had to carry Hibbert's inability. Roy was the major reason why they blew up.

Also, we have to save that cap space for plan A (Gasol, Lopez) even if we lose out. Doesn't matter if they may not come. Hibbert essentially rules us out of adding another a productive big.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject:

zoogz wrote:
Around what range do you guys think DeAndre Jordan will command this offseason?


$12-15 mil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
zoogz wrote:
Around what range do you guys think DeAndre Jordan will command this offseason?


$12-15 mil


I prefer Hibbert over Deandre.

Hibbert: 16
Klay: 14

those are my 2 guys
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:20 am    Post subject:

DimesnD wrote:
@yinoma

I'd rather take a short sample size from the latest effort than a longer sample size years ago. Things can change that fast. Nash for instance. In this case, Hibbert's mindset is shot. No confidence no player. At least Nash wilted because he's old. Roy wilted because he's a mental midget, something that would not mesh with Kobe.

And paying a guy $15 mil to only block shot is an utter waste. Indiana self destructed but everybody still played to their abilities, and they all had to carry Hibbert's inability. Roy was the major reason why they blew up.

Also, we have to save that cap space for plan A (Gasol, Lopez) even if we lose out. Doesn't matter if they may not come. Hibbert essentially rules us out of adding another a productive big.


he is 1 of the best defensive bigs in the league. he just doesnt block shots but plays defense too

not as flashy as Deandre but pretty good. Deandre is the one who blcok shots and plays below avg defense

Pau gasol cost a 3peat too and it was only 1 playoffs.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject:

DimesnD wrote:
@yinoma

I'd rather take a short sample size from the latest effort than a longer sample size years ago. Things can change that fast. Nash for instance. In this case, Hibbert's mindset is shot. No confidence no player. At least Nash wilted because he's old. Roy wilted because he's a mental midget, something that would not mesh with Kobe.

And paying a guy $15 mil to only block shot is an utter waste. Indiana self destructed but everybody still played to their abilities, and they all had to carry Hibbert's inability. Roy was the major reason why they blew up.

Also, we have to save that cap space for plan A (Gasol, Lopez) even if we lose out. Doesn't matter if they may not come. Hibbert essentially rules us out of adding another a productive big.


Fair enough. But my hope is other GMs think like that so Lakers can get him on the low. Even with Hibbert (if he opts in), Lakers can still have a near-max slot available. You have Randle/Hibbert and you have a pretty imposing frontcourt IMO.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject:

Deandre is the better finisher of the two.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Deandre is the better finisher of the two.


Also can't make a post move, defend a big 1-on-1, and hit free throws (which is why they got Spencer Hawes). Jordan needs to play in a lob-heavy system and Lakers wouldn't be that.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: How Mitch will rebuild the lakers...

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
King Nupe wrote:
I might need Larry Coon to chime in on this to get the numbers straight. But I believe mitch will trade for Klay and sign Marc Gasol in the off season. We will clear J. Lin, Boozer and Hills contracts and be set. Well have our starting SG, SF, PF and C for 2015.


What will we trade for Klay? Randle? That's about all I can see them accepting and if we do that, that is foolish since Randle is on a rookie deal. Otherwise I don't see how we get Klay this year. We may offer him a max next summer, but I think Warriors match that and give him a 5th year.

Marc? I can see him being a target. However, not sure if he wants to come here.

My prediction is we go for a move like Roy Hibbert with Nash, 2015 1st, and fillers (like X or another young piece). That is a classic Mitch type of move to get a big man. I don't see a superstar trade this year, but a "buy low" kind of move. In that scenario, we'd need the Pacers to collapse, which is possible without George/Lance.


I am thinking the complete opposite of the Hibbert trade. Prefer to keep the rebuild on track with young players. That Houston 1st will hopefully be in the high teens. A center like Cauley-Stien or Hammons potentially could be selected in that range. Or a solid SF to add to the roster.

Also interested to see how Lin and Hill develop and fit in this year. If they thrive it changes needs and how assets are used. Lin at a more reasonable salary? Hill producing at $9M a year may not be so bad.

Lakers still have Nash and Boozer coming off the books. Sizable $13M contract between them if the right player is available. Then in 2016 Kobe's $28M coming off the books adds a lot of flexibility to add a player or players.


Thats's exactly what I am thinking the way we should strategize. Keep the pick and fill in a young need with either a SF or a Center...they'll be on a rookie deal and hopefully we've added another piece that we could develop as a future rotational pieces tou our roster on a rookie contract for the next several years.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject:

If we have enough offense and need a rim protector, someone who'll grab rebounds also, not a paltry 6.6 like Hibbert. the guy to target is Asik. Probably in the 10 mil range. 15 mil+ is reserved for the perenial all-stars/superstars. Hibbert ain't that.

@yinoma
my choice would be to wait it out. Perhaps we can trade assets to be in the range to pick up Cauley-stein. IMO the Kentucky duo of Stein/Randle is far dynamic than Hibbert/Randle will ever be. Stein can cover some ground and get to spot shooters. There's a reason Hibbert sits down in crunch time. His coach doesn't trust his mobility against the likes of Bosh.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject:

DimesnD wrote:
If we have enough offense and need a rim protector, someone who'll grab rebounds also, not a paltry 6.6 like Hibbert. the guy to target is Asik. Probably in the 10 mil range. 15 mil+ is reserved for the perenial all-stars/superstars. Hibbert ain't that.

@yinoma
my choice would be to wait it out. Perhaps we can trade assets to be in the range to pick up Cauley-stein. IMO the Kentucky duo of Stein/Randle is far dynamic than Hibbert/Randle will ever be. Stein can cover some ground and get to spot shooters. There's a reason Hibbert sits down in crunch time. His coach doesn't trust his mobility against the likes of Bosh.


WCS has many problems too, including no offensive game whatsoever, limited stamina. Of course he's more mobile.

Again, I'm just saying what I think the Lakers FO is targeting in terms of established players on short contracts who fill the historically important center position. Players like Asik probably want a 5 year deal (which NO will pay since he is a good center for Davis). That leaves Lopez, MGasol, Chandler, Jordan as possible big men. I think most of them may stay. If so, Lakers have another donut in the middle and may have to re-up Jordan Hill again, which is not the optimal long-term goal at center.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Deandre is the better finisher of the two.


Also can't make a post move, defend a big 1-on-1, and hit free throws (which is why they got Spencer Hawes). Jordan needs to play in a lob-heavy system and Lakers wouldn't be that.


this 100%.

doc rivers came to that conclusion after 1 yr and went on and signed Hawes.

he hyped DdeAndre but in the playoffs reality folded...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject:

there is a player out there... who's been a good soldier, and will have one more year on his contract after this year... but that team has sucked and he's been hurt a lot... but when healthy he's an allstar...


my prediction is we are going to trade hill, and maybe X for Al Horord... at 28 he's veteran enough to help us to the next level and young enough to invest in...

IF we can make a strong push in the playoffs i think free agents will take a hard look at us... the guy we'll go after right before the trade deadline will not be Klay... it's going to be Harrison Barnes

in a wink wink deal... through jerry west... we'll promise not to go after Klay because they are going to gift wrap Barnes for Wes and either Ed Davis or Robert Sacre (whoever is out of the rotation) and a 2nd round pick...
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject:

Getting Horford would be a good move by Mitch.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject:

gus26 wrote:
there is a player out there... who's been a good soldier, and will have one more year on his contract after this year... but that team has sucked and he's been hurt a lot... but when healthy he's an allstar...


my prediction is we are going to trade hill, and maybe X for Al Horord... at 28 he's veteran enough to help us to the next level and young enough to invest in...

IF we can make a strong push in the playoffs i think free agents will take a hard look at us... the guy we'll go after right before the trade deadline will not be Klay... it's going to be Harrison Barnes

in a wink wink deal... through jerry west... we'll promise not to go after Klay because they are going to gift wrap Barnes for Wes and either Ed Davis or Robert Sacre (whoever is out of the rotation) and a 2nd round pick...


Love the enthusiasm. I've always loved Horford, but his injury history concerns me, particularly if you want him to play center.

I too have a weird feeling about Harrison Barnes. Maybe it's the UNC connection but I can see the Lakers pursuing him with that triangle involving Mitch-UNC-West. However, that's probably next season and not this after they've maxed out Klay.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject:

The Lakers should have some compelling bigman options. Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol, I believe Al Jefferson and Brook Lopez. DeAndre Jordan possibly (though I wonder if losing their racist owner, makes it far less likely he goes anywhere. The richest owner in the NBA isn't going to get outbid I'm guessing.) Possibly KG and Anderson Varejao as more reaches but still serviceable C's

Don't get me wrong... if you can get Hibbert during the season for Nash's expiring and maybe Hill with a first... You do it. Though, either way the Lakers should be able to fix the C spot by next off season.
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Jim99187
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Getting Horford would be a good move by Mitch.


I am skeptical as he has been injured almost 2yrs out of last 3.

12:11
13:74
14:29

but if its only going to take hill/x/1st I am up for it
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22
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject:

I'm with you DimesnD. I'd rather take the FA gamble than give up a 1st for Hibbert.

I've never seen a player mentally crumble more than that.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
I'm with you DimesnD. I'd rather take the FA gamble than give up a 1st for Hibbert.

I've never seen a player mentally crumble more than that.


pau gasol during the 3peat?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
22 wrote:
I'm with you DimesnD. I'd rather take the FA gamble than give up a 1st for Hibbert.

I've never seen a player mentally crumble more than that.


pau gasol during the 3peat?


The entire Lakers squad in Boston?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject:

Mitch will rebuild the Lakers when management stops holding onto the past and stops trying to rebuild with cash.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Jim's lucky rabbit's foot.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject:

[quote="gus26"]there is a player out there... who's been a good soldier, and will have one more year on his contract after this year... but that team has sucked and he's been hurt a lot... but when healthy he's an allstar...


my prediction is we are going to trade hill, and maybe X for Al Horord... at 28 he's veteran enough to help us to the next level and young enough to invest in...

IF we can make a strong push in the playoffs i think free agents will take a hard look at us... the guy we'll go after right before the trade deadline will not be Klay... it's going to be Harrison Barnes

in a wink wink deal... through jerry west... we'll promise not to go after Klay because they are going to gift wrap Barnes for Wes and either Ed Davis or Robert Sacre (whoever is out of the rotation) and a 2nd round pick...[/quote




Why Horford. Isn't he also considered undersized at 6'10" 245lbs. Same height and about 10lbs heavier then Hill.

Personally I am interested to see what Hill will contribute this year. If he can sustain his energy and activity level he can be a very useful player.

Even if they bring in a FA center next year wouldn't Hill a nice contributor first bigman off the bench. Playing mpg as back up center and behind Randle at PF.

Harrison Barnes would be a nice addition.
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