Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject: Lebron/Love/Irving vs. Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka
I was thinking about this recently and I'm not sure which big 3 is better. This is a little different issue but I'm also wondering if OKC matches up better with Cleveland than Miami.
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup. _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject:
I'd go with the Cavaliers, with the caveat that there's a good chance one of Irving/Love won't be healthy should they reach the finals. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
People underestimated the importance of Bosh. He was the center of the Heat's defensive scheme, and his ability to blow up pick and rolls was huge for them. I think Love is a better overall player, but he isn't going to provide that same defensive impact. Westbrook is definitely going to have an easier time against Cleveland than he did against Miami. _________________ Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
People underestimated the importance of Bosh. He was the center of the Heat's defensive scheme, and his ability to blow up pick and rolls was huge for them. I think Love is a better overall player, but he isn't going to provide that same defensive impact. Westbrook is definitely going to have an easier time against Cleveland than he did against Miami.
At the time, Ibaka's jump shot was pretty lousy, it was something he mostly developed over the 2012 olympic lead up practicing with Marc for a month straight (he went from EFG 39% to 47% with 40% more volume on jumpers) so it made the okc pnr a little weak since it couldn't really be switched into a pick and pop, so Miami went heavy trap on Harden.
Westbrook struggles when Westbrook takes jumpers though, he's really bad at them, and Ibaka's lack of jump shot didn't help here either since the trapping could be on that side too, also the addition of Adams helps because unlike Perkins, he isn't completely useless at all things offense.
I think OKC has a better support cast right now, between Adams, Jackson, even Morrow and Collison, I like Andy maybe more than any of those 4 when not injured and he's a when not if guy at this point, and I don't really like anyone else on their roster, plus OKC is more of a developed team so they fit better. In a single game, he who shoots best wins, but over a series, i think i'd go with OKC right now. _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:55 am Post subject:
With Love, Irving and Westbrook consistently spending time in street clothes, I take Durant and Ibaka over Lebron. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Sure, the battle is primarily with the Big 3s. But the supporting casts will be the determining factor if they meet in the Finals. Who guards Reggie Jackson for example? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Sure, the battle is primarily with the Big 3s. But the supporting casts will be the determining factor if they meet in the Finals. Who guards Reggie Jackson for example?
I keep hearing how Lebron has a new super team, but I'm not even sure that his big 3 is better than the one at OKC. OKC used to also have Harden. OKC still hasn't won yet and I'm not sure they ever will. It makes me more skeptical that Cleveland will win any titles.
Sure, the battle is primarily with the Big 3s. But the supporting casts will be the determining factor if they meet in the Finals. Who guards Reggie Jackson for example?
I keep hearing how Lebron has a new super team, but I'm not even sure that his big 3 is better than the one at OKC. OKC used to also have Harden. OKC still hasn't won yet and I'm not sure they ever will. It makes me more skeptical that Cleveland will win any titles.
They'll get out of the east maybe 3 or 4 times, sure some years the team that comes out is scrubarific, but given multiple chances i'm sure they'll get a matchup they'll like, or injury to their benefit eventually, the west is a bloodbath but there's no team you know is just going to rifle through everyone. Other thing with Cleveland is they have some young talent that if they're willing to part with, could certainly get some halfway decent fitting roleplayers. _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
Nah it was Harden that pretty much disappeared (kind of like how he played the majority of the games against the vaunted Blazers).
37% shooting and 12 points a game in the Finals against the Heat. It wasn't so much the stats but hit total passivity (being hounded by Lebron and Wade can do that to a guy). Some players hit back when thrown into a fire. Others grab ankles.
Westbrook on the other hand was his usual torrid self or ice cold. He always gave monster rebound totals for a guard and expected assist numbers for a shoot first pg.
Westbrook averaged 27 pts, 6.5 boards and 6.6 asst in the Finals against the Heat in 2011 shooting 43%.
In 2012-2013 he had a 20/11/3 game and a 26/5/10 but shot the ball poorly both games (29% and 37%).
Last season he played once against the Heat and that was his first game coming back from missing 26 games and surgery. Pretty much a bad game in limited minutes but it was to be expected.
In any event, Russ' play against Miami was pretty much par for the course. Shoot you into a game. Shoot you out.
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
Nah it was Harden that pretty much disappeared (kind of like how he played the majority of the games against the vaunted Blazers).
37% shooting and 12 points a game in the Finals against the Heat. It wasn't so much the stats but hit total passivity (being hounded by Lebron and Wade can do that to a guy). Some players hit back when thrown into a fire. Others grab ankles.
Westbrook on the other hand was his usual torrid self or ice cold. He always gave monster rebound totals for a guard and expected assist numbers for a shoot first pg.
Westbrook averaged 27 pts, 6.5 boards and 6.6 asst in the Finals against the Heat in 2011 shooting 43%.
In 2012-2013 he had a 20/11/3 game and a 26/5/10 but shot the ball poorly both games (29% and 37%).
Last season he played once against the Heat and that was his first game coming back from missing 26 games and surgery. Pretty much a bad game in limited minutes but it was to be expected.
In any event, Russ' play against Miami was pretty much par for the course. Shoot you into a game. Shoot you out.
Harden had one incredibly bad game (game 1, the one they won) and 4 decent games, Westbrook had one amazing game (game 4), 1 decent game and 3 awful games. Take out Harden's game 1 and his series looks much like he was the rest of the year for them (a 16 ppg bench player, who chipped in elsewhere when his shot was off), and since they won that game, he didn't really cost them that game, take out Westbrook's game 4, or more specifically look at what he did in the majority of their losing games and you see a context forming....
Averages don't tell you anything in a series, you could shoot 0-40 in two games, then basically singlehandedly win the next 4 and still have 35% shooting, omg you sucked _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
Nah it was Harden that pretty much disappeared (kind of like how he played the majority of the games against the vaunted Blazers).
37% shooting and 12 points a game in the Finals against the Heat. It wasn't so much the stats but hit total passivity (being hounded by Lebron and Wade can do that to a guy). Some players hit back when thrown into a fire. Others grab ankles.
Westbrook on the other hand was his usual torrid self or ice cold. He always gave monster rebound totals for a guard and expected assist numbers for a shoot first pg.
Westbrook averaged 27 pts, 6.5 boards and 6.6 asst in the Finals against the Heat in 2011 shooting 43%.
In 2012-2013 he had a 20/11/3 game and a 26/5/10 but shot the ball poorly both games (29% and 37%).
Last season he played once against the Heat and that was his first game coming back from missing 26 games and surgery. Pretty much a bad game in limited minutes but it was to be expected.
In any event, Russ' play against Miami was pretty much par for the course. Shoot you into a game. Shoot you out.
The last post beat me to it but I thought Westbrook really struggled. The numbers you mention are actually disappointing because they include his numbers in game 4. His jumper was falling that night and he put up amazing numbers. Even Miami couldn't stop him when he was consistently hitting jumpers. But in the rest of the series he was playing some of the worst basketball I've ever seen him play in the last 5 years.
He was far more effective in the earlier rounds that year. He matched up better against older, less athletic teams like the Lakers and Spurs.
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
Nah it was Harden that pretty much disappeared (kind of like how he played the majority of the games against the vaunted Blazers).
37% shooting and 12 points a game in the Finals against the Heat. It wasn't so much the stats but hit total passivity (being hounded by Lebron and Wade can do that to a guy). Some players hit back when thrown into a fire. Others grab ankles.
Westbrook on the other hand was his usual torrid self or ice cold. He always gave monster rebound totals for a guard and expected assist numbers for a shoot first pg.
Westbrook averaged 27 pts, 6.5 boards and 6.6 asst in the Finals against the Heat in 2011 shooting 43%.
In 2012-2013 he had a 20/11/3 game and a 26/5/10 but shot the ball poorly both games (29% and 37%).
Last season he played once against the Heat and that was his first game coming back from missing 26 games and surgery. Pretty much a bad game in limited minutes but it was to be expected.
In any event, Russ' play against Miami was pretty much par for the course. Shoot you into a game. Shoot you out.
The last post beat me to it but I thought Westbrook really struggled. The numbers you mention are actually disappointing because they include his numbers in game 4. His jumper was falling that night and he put up amazing numbers. Even Miami couldn't stop him when he was consistently hitting jumpers. But in the rest of the series he was playing some of the worst basketball I've ever seen him play in the last 5 years.
He was far more effective in the earlier rounds that year. He matched up better against older, less athletic teams like the Lakers and Spurs.
I like OKC better _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka. Not because of skills or talent. All 6 players have incredible talent. But because those guys in OKC do have lot more will. They really need to prove something and want to win.
LeBron has his rings - and he does not have the crazy will Kobe or Michael Jordan have. Neither do Love or Irving. Wade was the driving force in Miami. And if Blatt can create that will and drive in his first season in the spoiled NBA - I'm not sure.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:55 am Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Telleris wrote:
Well Love can drag Ibaka out, which is always an issue for OKC, but they might just leave Ibaka at center instead since Cleveland don't really have one.
Cleveland don't have anyone to guard Westbrook, but then if he takes jump shots, you don't need anyone, certainly an interesting matchup.
I remember Westbrook mostly struggling against the Heat. That's one reason OKC struggled against the Heat. Durant stepped up but his teammates didn't. If the Cavs don't play the same level of defense then I don't see how they can stop him.
Nah it was Harden that pretty much disappeared (kind of like how he played the majority of the games against the vaunted Blazers).
37% shooting and 12 points a game in the Finals against the Heat. It wasn't so much the stats but hit total passivity (being hounded by Lebron and Wade can do that to a guy). Some players hit back when thrown into a fire. Others grab ankles.
Westbrook on the other hand was his usual torrid self or ice cold. He always gave monster rebound totals for a guard and expected assist numbers for a shoot first pg.
Westbrook averaged 27 pts, 6.5 boards and 6.6 asst in the Finals against the Heat in 2011 shooting 43%.
In 2012-2013 he had a 20/11/3 game and a 26/5/10 but shot the ball poorly both games (29% and 37%).
Last season he played once against the Heat and that was his first game coming back from missing 26 games and surgery. Pretty much a bad game in limited minutes but it was to be expected.
In any event, Russ' play against Miami was pretty much par for the course. Shoot you into a game. Shoot you out.
The last post beat me to it but I thought Westbrook really struggled. The numbers you mention are actually disappointing because they include his numbers in game 4. His jumper was falling that night and he put up amazing numbers. Even Miami couldn't stop him when he was consistently hitting jumpers. But in the rest of the series he was playing some of the worst basketball I've ever seen him play in the last 5 years.
He was far more effective in the earlier rounds that year. He matched up better against older, less athletic teams like the Lakers and Spurs.
True. Both fair points.
Yeah, in the 43 point game he shot 20-32 from the floor. In the remaining four games, he shot 32-88 (36%), including 3 for 19 from 3 (16%). Durant actually took 3 fewer shots o'er game than Westbrook while scoring over 30 a game. The heat made a decision to stop harden and let Westbrook fire away. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
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