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Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?
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Are Kobe's reasons for winning selfish?

YES

20%

[ 11 ]

66%

[ 35 ]

MAYBE

13%

[ 7 ]

Total Votes : 53

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Reflexx
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:48 pm Post subject:

Funny how proven examples of Kobe taking a back seat are deemed improbable scenarios. So basically you are asking if Kobe wants yo win as long as he's "the man" on a team where nobody is better than him. And a scenario where someone is better is "improbable" so should be discounted.

jodeke
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject:

NVM _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Last edited by jodeke on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

deal
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:53 pm Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:

Funny how proven examples of Kobe taking a back seat are deemed improbable scenarios.

So basically you are asking if Kobe wants yo win as long as he's "the man" on a team where nobody is better than him. And a scenario where someone is better is "improbable" so should be discounted.

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

stojan1993
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Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 67

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

focus
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Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 2526

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

focus wrote:

This stuff is out of hand. Exactly who was this guy or guys who was better than Kobe such that he should play second fiddle to him? Dwight? Nash?

There's only a handful of guys who even qualify for consideration over these last few years. Lebron, KD, DWade, Melo, DRose healthy version, Paul George, Dirk, Parker, CP3, Blake Griffin, Alridge maybe Lilliard, Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Steph Curry, Rondo, Nash healthy version, Deron Williams in theory though not in practice. KLove hasn't proven anything in playoffs and has never played in an important game so leave him out. AD is in there because of the clear gifts but they are just coming to view now, less in years past. Demarcus Cousins may get there but not so far.

So let's take Lamarcus Alridge, as a guy who I think is not a Alpha Dog type, but skill, professionalism, talent all there. Do people think Kobe would not welcome offloading #1 scorer to him? I think he'd appreciate Alridge. Just like he'd have been happy with CP3 running the show or a yesteryear healthy Nash.

The other guys are set on their teams and we didn't get them for other reasons that have nothing to do with Kobe (mostly contracts and success where they are).

I dont know Kobe neither, but you cant just say we dont have another superstar here, therefore Kobe's selfishness scared him off.

Oh wait my bad, Ramon Sessions. Clearly your point is proven OP.

Not what I'm saying. I said he would be the conductor, they would be first violin. I was under the impression the conductor was in charge of how the orchestra played.

Please show me where I made that point.

jodeke wrote:

Judging him by interviews, body language, I sense a arrogance that could be damaging team play.

I get the impression Kobe's willing to give some ground but IMO, not enough. I don't think he's willing to allow the offense to go through another player.

I don't want to call him a glory hog but for lack of a better description that's my deep impression, one I can't shake. He wants to win but he doesn't want to be second on the ladder. Wade did and won a ship.

You have an unshakeable deep impression that Kobe is a glory hog, unwilling to have the offense go through another player to a sufficient degree. So who is this player that Kobe should have played conductor to or second on the ladder or whatever? Who is/are these past players Kobe should have deferred/conducted/allowed to come to the forefront? You seem set on this view of Kobe, and I ask how you came to that unshakeable view. I presume based on some actual evidence of another player who would have been suited to a leadership role that did not due to Kobe's failure to relinquish scoring duties. So who is that? Is it Dwight or Nash or Metta or Pau or someone else?

See Reflexx's answer (p.2) for my basic view, and as you already read, AussieSuede's point about the Olympics. In short, he has not had such a quality teammate who could take over the lead/lead scorer role and lead a Laker franchise since Shaq. And so, his failure to give up scoring or any other leadership role is just hypothetical.

Granted you never mentioned Ramon, fair enough. I read that somewhere.

deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

We will never know, but do keep in mind you are taking about two other future HOF'rs. kobe makes more than Duncan and Parker or Duncan and Ginobili... And no surprise those cats won the championship...but we have Kobe and nothing else, cool.

greenfrog
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

He's said he doesn't believe in superstars taking paycuts.

rebirthoftheM
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 437

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:

I think that's a hard question to fairly answer. Kobe obviously is obsessed with winning, but he is also obsessed with being the alpha.

There are certainly times when he's hurt his team with tunnelvision. And there are also times when after being criticized for those things he went into a shell and seemed disinterested. Both of those point to a Yes in the column.

But at the same time, part of the reason he is so selfish is his confidence in himself and his belief that he is always the best option. If he truly believes that (and I believe he does), then he's doing it because of his desire to win. It should also be noted that during the title seasons with Shaq, while Kobe fought for that spotlight for most of the season, when it came down to the big games in the finals, he often fell in line with whatever the team asked of him, which was feeding the ball to Shaq. After a disastrous first three quarters in game 7 against the Celtics, he took his foot off the pedal and allowed his teammates to shine in the fourth, and still continued to give a strong effort, getting to the line and grabbing rebounds. Those things point to No.

And I think the proper answer is someplace in between. I think that Kobe wants to win. If at all possible, he wants to win on his own terms. He is conscious about his legacy. But I think when it comes down to it in the end, he will sacrifice his game to win if he thinks that is how it has to be.

JC.. you and I haven't agreed many times but this post was spot on!

deal
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

He's said he doesn't believe in superstars taking paycuts.

Again, cool, we have Kobe!

stojan1993
Sixth Man

Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 67

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:23 pm Post subject:

deal wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

He's said he doesn't believe in superstars taking paycuts.

Again, cool, we have Kobe!

Im not saying im happy that he has that contract, its the opposite actually, i just dont blame Kobe for accepting it, i blame our FO for offering it to him in the first place without negotiating, if they offered him a lower contract and then he refused and demanded more then i would blame him. The issue here is that i dont think his contract has a place in the discussion the op started.

greenfrog
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject:

stojan1993 wrote:

deal wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

He's said he doesn't believe in superstars taking paycuts.

Again, cool, we have Kobe!

It was negotiated.

deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject:

stojan1993 wrote:

deal wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

He's said he doesn't believe in superstars taking paycuts.

Again, cool, we have Kobe!

As in dance, in the business world, it takes two to tango...

KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?

jodeke wrote:

LINK

Source Questions Kobe Bryant’s Motives On Winning

Quote:

He wants to win,” says a source close to Lakers decision makers. “But only as long as he's the reason we’re winning[/b], as long as the performance is not affecting his numbers. No one works harder than Kobe. And no one sabotages his own efforts more. He’s scaring off the free agents we’re trying to get. We’re trying to surround you with talent and your ego is getting in the way.

The perception I have of Kobe is mostly media generated, I've never met him.

Judging him by interviews, body language, I sense a arrogance that could be damaging team play.

I get the impression Kobe's willing to give some ground but IMO, not enough. I don't think he's willing to allow the offense to go through another player.

I don't want to call him a glory hog but for lack of a better description that's my deep impression, one I can't shake. He wants to win but he doesn't want to be second on the ladder. Wade did and won a ship.

I don't think allowing others to take the lead would make him second, in my eyes he would still be first because he would be the conductor, the other would be first violin. I don't think he thinks like that.

I know you're smarter than to allow the media to guide your judgement of a person. I think you don't like Kobe because of how he comes across to you. But then again, you like Miles better than Clifford too. Perhaps you should change your name to MagicJohnsonMilesDavis......

_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays

stojan1993
Sixth Man

Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 67

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

deal wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

He's said he doesn't believe in superstars taking paycuts.

Again, cool, we have Kobe!

As in dance, in the business world, it takes two to tango...

Of course i just doubt that the difference was enough to make much changes in our cap space, and i doubt he would sign somewhere else or get that money anywhere else.
My point is i dont think he blackmailed them into that contract and that they could of goten away with giving him alot less.
Although maybe i frazed that wrong in my last post.

jodeke
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject:

focus wrote:

jodeke wrote:

focus wrote:

jodeke wrote:

I may be 180 out. I may be mistaking glory with competitiveness.

Read my concession to AS
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

greenfrog
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LINK

Source Questions Kobe Bryant’s Motives On Winning

Quote:

Are you saying he's not arrogant? He just said Julius Randle might/could be a bleeping idiot if he doesn't excel under his glorious tutelage and you want to pretend this is a media concoction? Of course if you like arrogance then, enjoy.

deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject:

stojan1993 wrote:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

deal wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

deal wrote:

stojan1993 wrote:

Quote:

Another way to look at it is, he could have taken Duncan or Dirk money and had better help but that scenerio didn't play out either....

If he was offered that kind of a contract maybe he would of taken it, on the other hand i doubt Duncan or Dirk get 50mill 2 year offers and say no, please dont give me that much money i want to win.

He's said he doesn't believe in superstars taking paycuts.

Again, cool, we have Kobe!

As in dance, in the business world, it takes two to tango...

Absolutely agree with you. I guess the outcome is my point, there seems to be some FA's out there Lakers could have been interested in but lacked the cap.

But bottom line, I agree with your assessment.

KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?

greenfrog wrote:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LINK

Source Questions Kobe Bryant’s Motives On Winning

Quote:

You obviously don't know me very well

greenfrog
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LINK

Source Questions Kobe Bryant’s Motives On Winning

Quote:

You obviously don't know me very well

I only wrote that because I suspect some fans do enjoy arrogance. It's not my thing either.

jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LINK

Source Questions Kobe Bryant’s Motives On Winning

Quote:

You're correct sir, the media doesn't seal my perception, it's Kobe's persona.

I'm not a Clifford hater, he's a master manipulator of the instrument. It's the Miles style I'm hooked on. MJMD is not a bad choice but I'll stick with jodeke, it has meaning.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?

greenfrog wrote:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LINK

Source Questions Kobe Bryant’s Motives On Winning

Quote:

You obviously don't know me very well

I only wrote that because I suspect some fans do enjoy arrogance. It's not my thing either.

You misunderstand me. Arrogance, when not mean spirited and based on talent and hard work is exactly down my wind pipe and what I want for my daughters.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays

greenfrog
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Are Kobe's motives for winning selfish?

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

greenfrog wrote:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LINK

Source Questions Kobe Bryant’s Motives On Winning

Quote:

You obviously don't know me very well

I only wrote that because I suspect some fans do enjoy arrogance. It's not my thing either.

You misunderstand me. Arrogance, when not mean spirited and based on talent and hard work is exactly down my wind pipe and what I want for my daughters.

So I didn't misunderstand you at first at all is what you're saying... jeeze, make up your mind.

wolfpaclaker
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Posts: 58336

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject:

The problem here isn't kobe being selfish in being an alpha male. We have known that for years. One should be very concerned if it's true that someone in the FO gave that to this reporter.

jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

The problem here isn't kobe being selfish in being an alpha male. We have known that for years. One should be very concerned if it's true that someone in the FO gave that to this reporter.

That's why I emphasized the source
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

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