|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not sure about all the Byron-is-a-racist talk on the the other thread, but he'd definitely be an idiot if he had Price play more minutes than Lin and at the end of games.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
since1991
Sixth Man
Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DJ Slik wrote: | | WHY is scott CREATING an issue/controversy that is completely unnecessary? why create doubt in your young PG? why even give him the impression that you don't have confidence in him enough to declare him the starter? bad coaching decision IMO. |
Exactly my point |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
since1991
Sixth Man
Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Drifts wrote: | | So far Scott has been unimpressive. .. |
I haven't liked his coaching decisions so far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Honeybadger81
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 1253
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| since1991 wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | WHY is scott CREATING an issue/controversy that is completely unnecessary? why create doubt in your young PG? why even give him the impression that you don't have confidence in him enough to declare him the starter? bad coaching decision IMO. |
Exactly my point |
I am not surprised to see this anymore, basically this is Lin's story of his whole life and I don't think it will change, he has to prove his worth again, again, again, for whatever reasons... As a fan, I just hope he enjoys his journey and has fun out there and plays the game the right way, things will naturally play out... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Remember there is another factor, that Harden/Lin were usually better off without each other on the court. Their games never meshed. Kobe/Lin may not have the same issues, but even in NY, Lin did his best when Melo was out.
It could simply be about Lin being able to play a free natural game in the 6th man role. When he comes in, it's his show and the ball runs through him. VS if he starts, he may have to take a huge backseat to the Kobe show.
If Lin winds up playing 30 mpg as a 6th man, who cares if he starts or not? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qiantom
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Remember there is another factor, that Harden/Lin were usually better off without each other on the court. Their games never meshed. Kobe/Lin may not have the same issues, but even in NY, Lin did his best when Melo was out.
It could simply be about Lin being able to play a free natural game in the 6th man role. When he comes in, it's his show and the ball runs through him. VS if he starts, he may have to take a huge backseat to the Kobe show.
If Lin winds up playing 30 mpg as a 6th man, who cares if he starts or not? |
Houston never tried to mesh Harden and Lin. Kobe is not gonna last a whole season if he continues to be both the SG and PG for the 1st unit.
Lin can be the 6th man now, but Young is going to be back and be the 6th man, so Lin will start eventually. It makes sense to start him now, too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MorlockO
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 184
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| qiantom wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Remember there is another factor, that Harden/Lin were usually better off without each other on the court. Their games never meshed. Kobe/Lin may not have the same issues, but even in NY, Lin did his best when Melo was out.
It could simply be about Lin being able to play a free natural game in the 6th man role. When he comes in, it's his show and the ball runs through him. VS if he starts, he may have to take a huge backseat to the Kobe show.
If Lin winds up playing 30 mpg as a 6th man, who cares if he starts or not? |
Houston never tried to mesh Harden and Lin. Kobe is not gonna last a whole season if he continues to be both the SG and PG for the 1st unit.
Lin can be the 6th man now, but Young is going to be back and be the 6th man, so Lin will start eventually. It makes sense to start him now, too. |
This does not make any sense to me. why not just solidify your starting unit and worry about your bench during the season? why not let randle take care of the bench, it would be a good learning experience for him.
do people think that the lakers roster will be same come trade deadline that we need to worry about the bench all the time? Worry about the bench enough that we will sacrifice the starting unit?
Young will be back bu December, why would you want to ruin the starting unit chemistry by then? Basketball is all about rhythm and chemistry. you want your starting 5 to be as consistent as possible if you want to win.
If Lin does not start by regular season, he will never start for the rest of the year, unless price gets hurt again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MorlockO
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 184
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cheesysapien wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | MorlockO wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Ronnie Price's hustle was never good enough to compensate for all his bricks. He's never even held a steady back-up job. All of a sudden he'll be starter for the Lakers? Byron Scott is reaching. Just start Lin. Don't make this rocket science. |
Maybe if you put things into perspective and realize how much the bench needs both Lin and Davis it wouldn't seem so scientific.
Till Nick Young comes back the bench needs scoring and needs depth to be able to keep our starters off the floor for longer. Lin and Davis are a perfect combo and Lin can get his own shot.
It would be a disaster if Price was playing with the bench lineup as they stand now cause he has no chemistry with Davis AND he wouldn't be orchestrating it well enough to get everyone involved and it would get super stagnant which means starters would have to come in sooner.
When Nick finally comes back, Lin probably will start. But as it stands Lin/Davis combo is the best the bench has right now. Splitting that up would not only hurt the bench but Davis as well.
Besides, Lin is the one out there finishing games and has an actual established role. More than he ever had in Houston so I'm sure he feels as long as he finishes games that's all that matters to him right now.
As well as currently fitting in with Byron's plan. If Ronnie Price even managed to make 2-3 threes a game it would probably change the complexity of the way our starters are defended. Note that was originally Nash's job, and whom would you rather defend Lillard?
When Young is back and we have more than "one" person on our bench unit capable of getting their own shot then Lin can go to the starters, till then it would only mess up our bench chemistry which is what we need to keep and push out leads pressuring another teams bench and deficit. |
Lin and davis imo should both start. Randle can get his own shot on the 2nd unit. He needs to be the man on the 2nd unit while young is out. it'll be good for him to take on a number 1 option type role even if it's of the 2nd unit. He can also play point forward a bit, sharing ball handling duties w clarkson and price. 2nd unit would be fine.
Kobe needs pressure relief. Boozer is the only other option of the starters who can relieve kobe and that's barely any relief at all. Between price johnson and jhill, kobe can't do it all himself. Having the lin and davis dynamic helps the starters both offensively and defensively. And maybe that way lakers won't be playing catchup from the beginning. |
Problem is the philosophy isn't "just put all 5 of the best players in the starting lineup and let the bench fend for themselves"
You don't do that unless you have 3 superstars on your team.
As of right now if Lin and Davis were starting the bench unit would have Price and Hill and the offense would become even more stagnant than it can already get at times and the bench would find no rhythm and the starters would have to come back in sooner. That's not good. |
Why are you so concerned about the Bench? its not like 5 starter out and 5 bench come in.
in the regular season, there are only 8-9 players in the normal rotation, there will always be at least 1-2 starters in the game all the time.
look at Portland, their bench is one of the worse in the league, yet they still reached the 2nd round playoffs, they where also 3rd seed for most of the regular season, except for the collapse at the end of the season that put them into the 5th seed.... |
because you have to pay attention to the lineups used.
8 or 9 guys will make the normal rotation
The problem is our team is about 10 deep when everyone is healthy
Let's break down how the lineups currently look(when Young is back)
Jeremy Lin
Kobe Bryant
Wesley Johnson
Carlos Boozer
Jordan Hill
Bench
Ronnie Price
Xavier Henry / Jordan Clarkson
Nick Young
Julius Randle / Ryan Kelly
Ed Davis / Robert Sacre
What the team has is depth and a whole lot of it. So when you look at the fact that currently, Kelly, Henry and Young are out you need to give up some.
Currently Price has shown himself to be a very capable defender, though his passing still worries me and I don't think he can be depended on for three point shots consistently, he adds to the flow of the starting lineup just fine when you consider how Byron likes to trap and play the pick and roll.
Currently, right now our bench leaves much to be desired, we can go back and forth on it all day but the reality is if you start Lin and even if he plays 2 minutes with the bench before the first quarter ins, Ronnie Price is going to get a majority of the time with the bench afterwards because people have to REST.
This means that for a stretch of the game in the 2nd quarter you're gonna have Price out there with Randle and Davis for a longer period of time than Lin will be in about 2 minutes if the first quarter.
That is when the tone is actually set and a lead can be pushed out, kept even or lost, this was the time we pushed out our leads whenever our bench was a factor. To start the 2nd quarter off with Price, Ellington, Randle and Davis is asking for trouble, particularly as you're going to be depending on Ellington or Clarkson for the majority of your shots as Price isn't gonna pressure the defense enough with his ability to finish at the basket in order to free up guys like Ellington on the perimeter, nor does he have the pick and roll chemistry with Ed Davis that Lin does.
So when you put that into perspective that unit that would start the 2nd quarter would most likely lose momentum than add to it every now and then, which is WHY Lin is desperately needed for those minutes as he can get his own shot, put pressure on the defense and get other guys open opportunities with his passing.
How Byron runs it is he starts the unit with Price, his defense, etc, then he'll bring Lin in at the close of the first or the beginning of the 2nd to play some time with the starters and then the beginning of the 2nd quarter with the bench which is where they build their momentum. He also has Lin finishing games which is another important factor.
Currently the Lakers bench NEEDS a point guard like Lin in order to actually get going. Randle has his best game of the pre-season, Davis impresses, and the bench has 46 points when Lin is leading the bench unit.
It's not a coincidence nor rocket science (pun intended) as to why Lin is such a valuable piece to the bench until they get some pieces back.
It may piss you off, but considering how many pieces our bench is missing, Lin is a necessity till they get back, particularly now that we know Steve Nash is never coming back.
So like I said, Lin is likely going to get a majority of his minutes with the bench till Young, Kelly and X come back. Then we may see Lin moved to the starting lineup because our bench would have much more firepower and wouldn't need to depend "as much" on it.
Also let me bring up before you say "But it isn't gonna be a 4 on 5 switch with the bench." don't forget who our coach is.
Byron Scott said himself that he wants to see if our team can run "two units". He intends for the first unit to be of a slower pace for our veterans to play at and be a little more methodical, and then have a bench that he really REALLY wants to put pressure on the defense with that can get out and run.
That is pretty much what you've been seeing. That is why Lin is with "the young fellas" and Price starts alongside Kobe and Boozer.
You'll see Lin as the starter sooner rather than later, Scott may even try it tonight. But you also have to understand what Byron's doing and actually listen to what he says in terms of strategy before you start trying to put this team in a box.
P.S: Let Lin actually get back in condition, up to speed and 100% too.
| Quote: | Mark Medina @MarkG_Medina
Byron Scott said Price is still starting but that's not definitive for the season
Mark Medina @MarkG_Medina
Byron says he's starting price because he has played well through preseason and Lin is just coming off injury. But this is not set in stone
|
|
MJST, what you said make sense. At least until Nick comes back, let the first unit play at a slower pace, and the second unit brings in the punch. Kinda like the 2008 Olympics team. Not saying we are that deep, but similar philosophy. That way, we can have a more balanced two units. Lin himself said that what matters to him is that he get to finish the game, and that he usually play better in the 4th quarter. |
Does not make any sense, which NBA team would shuffle their starting unit because of the sixth man? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Drifts
Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28374
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kray28_ wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | So far Scott has been unimpressive. .. |
It's preseason. I'm not sure what you expected to see. It's not like he should be showing his hand.
It also doesn't matter who starts in the preseason....the time is best spent getting everybody out there building chemistry and learning how to play with one another.
It's very clear that Lin vastly outplayed Price, and it's my expectation that Lin will be the starter. |
so far, Scott has been unimpressive in the preseason.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bandiger
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| WTF is Scott doing? I sympathize with Lin. This sounds like Potatohead 2.0 but worse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bandiger wrote: | | what the heck is Scott doing? I sympathize with Lin. This sounds like Potatohead 2.0 but worse. |
Lin is not exactly crying about it right now so you Lin fans need to stop being so dramafilled and let things play out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qiantom
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MorlockO wrote: | | qiantom wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Remember there is another factor, that Harden/Lin were usually better off without each other on the court. Their games never meshed. Kobe/Lin may not have the same issues, but even in NY, Lin did his best when Melo was out.
It could simply be about Lin being able to play a free natural game in the 6th man role. When he comes in, it's his show and the ball runs through him. VS if he starts, he may have to take a huge backseat to the Kobe show.
If Lin winds up playing 30 mpg as a 6th man, who cares if he starts or not? |
Houston never tried to mesh Harden and Lin. Kobe is not gonna last a whole season if he continues to be both the SG and PG for the 1st unit.
Lin can be the 6th man now, but Young is going to be back and be the 6th man, so Lin will start eventually. It makes sense to start him now, too. |
This does not make any sense to me. why not just solidify your starting unit and worry about your bench during the season? why not let randle take care of the bench, it would be a good learning experience for him.
do people think that the lakers roster will be same come trade deadline that we need to worry about the bench all the time? Worry about the bench enough that we will sacrifice the starting unit?
Young will be back bu December, why would you want to ruin the starting unit chemistry by then? Basketball is all about rhythm and chemistry. you want your starting 5 to be as consistent as possible if you want to win.
If Lin does not start by regular season, he will never start for the rest of the year, unless price gets hurt again. |
I am suggesting that Lin start now as well... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Team of the 80's
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 6095
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Who the hell are you people? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qiantom
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rivershow wrote: | | bandiger wrote: | | what the heck is Scott doing? I sympathize with Lin. This sounds like Potatohead 2.0 but worse. |
Lin is not exactly crying about it right now so you Lin fans need to stop being so dramafilled and let things play out. |
I agree with letting things play out, but the reason is wrong. Lin almost never cries about anything, but fans are different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JJack
Rookie
Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
lesson learned during preseason: BS's philosophy is good but he also showed his limitation.
He promised except Kobe other guys need to fight for their position, yet Hill/Booz combo was glued in starter no matter how well ED/Randle played and how bad 1st unit got beat. he value Lin/Price equally, in advanced stat this 2 not even close. No sign of ED/LIN practice with 1st unit which seems he take seniority too much, like to rely on vets and it could be bad for young men's development and certainly no good when play against younger, faster teams. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| qiantom wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | bandiger wrote: | | what the heck is Scott doing? I sympathize with Lin. This sounds like Potatohead 2.0 but worse. |
Lin is not exactly crying about it right now so you Lin fans need to stop being so dramafilled and let things play out. |
I agree with letting things play out, but the reason is wrong. Lin almost never cries about anything, but fans are different. |
Yeah but it's annoying to other fans. You guys aren't the only fans here. Please remember that. Scott will announce the starting roster when he does. And he's not going to keep Lin on the bench all season long otherwise either. There is a thing called patience. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
qiantom
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 612
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rivershow wrote: | | qiantom wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | bandiger wrote: | | what the heck is Scott doing? I sympathize with Lin. This sounds like Potatohead 2.0 but worse. |
Lin is not exactly crying about it right now so you Lin fans need to stop being so dramafilled and let things play out. |
I agree with letting things play out, but the reason is wrong. Lin almost never cries about anything, but fans are different. |
Yeah but it's annoying to other fans. You guys aren't the only fans here. Please remember that. Scott will announce the starting roster when he does. And he's not going to keep Lin on the bench all season long otherwise either. There is a thing called patience. |
I agree with all you said here. Look at the poll. Most Laker fans want Lin to start anyway. So yeah, everyone should be a little patient. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoogz
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 242
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I agree with many here, no need to overreact, these were just the preseason lineups. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
non-player zealot
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rivershow wrote: | | qiantom wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | bandiger wrote: | | what the heck is Scott doing? I sympathize with Lin. This sounds like Potatohead 2.0 but worse. |
Lin is not exactly crying about it right now so you Lin fans need to stop being so dramafilled and let things play out. |
I agree with letting things play out, but the reason is wrong. Lin almost never cries about anything, but fans are different. |
Yeah but it's annoying to other fans. You guys aren't the only fans here. Please remember that. Scott will announce the starting roster when he does. And he's not going to keep Lin on the bench all season long otherwise either. There is a thing called patience. |
Phil experimented with lineups until mid-Jan some years. In 01, he would play effin Rider and Berthy to a point where both of them expected it would continue. Then they dropped off the planet. I was gonna say that because of Phil's track record, he got leeway that Byron won't get, but then again, once I thought back a little, it wasn't long before I remembered that Phil got criticized for his PT decisions frequently.
Just a little paaaay-shance... Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaa-heh....
_________________
GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX!
Last edited by non-player zealot on Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DJ Slik wrote: | | WHY is scott CREATING an issue/controversy that is completely unnecessary? why create doubt in your young PG? why even give him the impression that you don't have confidence in him enough to declare him the starter? bad coaching decision IMO. |
I hope you realize that fans are creating a controversy, not the coach.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14904
Location: Earth
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Not sure about all the Byron-is-a-racist talk on the the other thread, but he'd definitely be an idiot if he had Price play more minutes than Lin and at the end of games. |
unless he wins the games....
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14904
Location: Earth
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | WHY is scott CREATING an issue/controversy that is completely unnecessary? why create doubt in your young PG? why even give him the impression that you don't have confidence in him enough to declare him the starter? bad coaching decision IMO. |
I hope you realize that fans are creating a controversy, not the coach. |
Jezz, I'll crack up if Scott starts Price....but like I said before, he'd get to much heat... just funny, anyway, how people carry on...
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Remember there is another factor, that Harden/Lin were usually better off without each other on the court. Their games never meshed. Kobe/Lin may not have the same issues, but even in NY, Lin did his best when Melo was out.
It could simply be about Lin being able to play a free natural game in the 6th man role. When he comes in, it's his show and the ball runs through him. VS if he starts, he may have to take a huge backseat to the Kobe show.
If Lin winds up playing 30 mpg as a 6th man, who cares if he starts or not? |
That is where I am at, I care more about who finishes a close game than who starts. I think a young Kobe might have had issues playing with Lin, but an older Kobe probably welcomes the help.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
freethrow
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Oct 2014
Posts: 449
Location: 15 miles from Staples Center
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BScott already said whoever starts will play 30+ minutes, so he doesn't envision a 6th man role for Lin coming off the bench |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cgambino123
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 329
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lol @ all the talk about "Lin leading the second unit." The second unit will be playing 15-20 minutes a game. People act as if we're actually a good team and have the luxury to worry about the bench.
Not only are our starters going to be playing the majority of the minutes, but they'll be playing opposing teams best players, and we need the best guys to do that. Lin has shown the ability to score, pass, and defend. He should be the starter. And people act as if our starting line up is actually good. Wesley Johnson? Boozer? Hill? Really? It's going to be a one man show with Kobe and at age 36 coming off injuries and surgery I dont want him handling literally all playmaking and scoring duties and running him to the ground just so "Lin can lead the 2nd unit" for 15 minutes. Besides, it's best to play Kobe and Lin and see if the mesh before just disregarding it and saying they can't.
If the bench struggles, who cares? The bench isn't supposed to be as good as the starters. And with Swaggy, Clarkson, Randle, and Davis I think the bench will be fine. In fact, if Lin was on the bench I legitimately think our 2nd unit will be better than our first. How ridiculous is that
Get Bledsoe or Rondo before you bench Lin. But if you can't get a legit PG, then enough of the nonsense and start Lin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
