One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
He's not there yet, but you can see the improvement from the 1st preseason game. He needs to get his legs under him first.
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
I agree with that even though Kobe would have trouble dragging this roster to playoffs even in his prime that's how bad this roster is. Kobe not close to being in his prime of course, but I still expect him to have pretty good season not great if healthy his days of being top 5 player are over with.
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
I agree with that even though Kobe would have trouble dragging this roster to playoffs even in his prime that's how bad this roster is. Kobe not close to being in his prime of course, but I still expect him to have pretty good season not great if healthy his days of being top 5 player are over with.
Amazingly, he carried a team with Smush, Devean George, Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom, with a bench of Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Sasha Vujacic to a 45-win season. Odom is a nice #2, but everyone else is complete garbage. Our roster now is better than that roster (Young/Boozer/Lin/Hill/Davis) IMO.
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
Dude give it a rest. We know of your deep-rooted hatred towards Kobe and the backhand compliments. We get it made your point loud and clear. Asinine and sad point but we heard it. Man, there is just too much negativity in LG with some.
Is it gonna be a tough year? Of course. But we don't need this additional constant negativity and nagging on top.
Instead of commending a veteran guard for showing toughness against the so-called best center and trying to instill an identity with his teammate some here bash him for everything. Why did he have to breathe that air?
It's espn-esque. Abbott-esque. LBJ does that it'd be "did you see that leadership? That's why everyone wants to play with him (even tho it's just 2 scrub shooters)."
go lakers! _________________ Alltime lineup: Magic | Kobe | MJ | Hakeem | KAJ
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
I agree with that even though Kobe would have trouble dragging this roster to playoffs even in his prime that's how bad this roster is. Kobe not close to being in his prime of course, but I still expect him to have pretty good season not great if healthy his days of being top 5 player are over with.
Amazingly, he carried a team with Smush, Devean George, Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom, with a bench of Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Sasha Vujacic to a 45-win season. Odom is a nice #2, but everyone else is complete garbage. Our roster now is better than that roster (Young/Boozer/Lin/Hill/Davis) IMO.
I remember that time period but I feel talent wise this team might be even worse and to make matters worse we don't have prime Kobe to save the day this time...
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
I agree with that even though Kobe would have trouble dragging this roster to playoffs even in his prime that's how bad this roster is. Kobe not close to being in his prime of course, but I still expect him to have pretty good season not great if healthy his days of being top 5 player are over with.
Give it more than one regular season game before making judgments.
Kobe from 2005-2008 still couldn't carry this roster to the playoffs without help. He struggled greatly back then to get an easy shot off until Gasol arrived and then the game looked super easy for him. He's not in his prime but I still think he could be a top 5 player. By that same token he could very well be done being that kind of player anymore to which I think he'd retire very quickly if that were true. _________________ "We are the goodest." - Shaq ESPN interview
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
Dude give it a rest. We know of your deep-rooted hatred towards Kobe and the backhand compliments. We get it made your point loud and clear. Asinine and sad point but we heard it. Man, there is just too much negativity in LG with some.
Is it gonna be a tough year? Of course. But we don't need this additional constant negativity and nagging on top.
Instead of commending a veteran guard for showing toughness against the so-called best center and trying to instill an identity with his teammate some here bash him for everything. Why did he have to breathe that air?
It's espn-esque. Abbott-esque. LBJ does that it'd be "did you see that leadership? That's why everyone wants to play with him (even tho it's just 2 scrub shooters)."
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
I agree with that even though Kobe would have trouble dragging this roster to playoffs even in his prime that's how bad this roster is. Kobe not close to being in his prime of course, but I still expect him to have pretty good season not great if healthy his days of being top 5 player are over with.
Give it more than one regular season game before making judgments.
Kobe from 2005-2008 still couldn't carry this roster to the playoffs without help. He struggled greatly back then to get an easy shot off until Gasol arrived and then the game looked super easy for him. He's not in his prime but I still think he could be a top 5 player. By that same token he could very well be done being that kind of player anymore to which I think he'd retire very quickly if that were true.
I hope you're right. I should give Kobe more time I just get caught up into all negative in here.
If this so called "soft" Dwight Howard was on our team, we wouldn't be going through as much trouble as we're going through now. Just him being on your team all but guarantees a playoff spot.
so much respect to Kobe for so many reasons for sticking it to D12........love it _________________ "We might have had the worst season ever or could have the worst season ever for a Lakers team, but now let's have the greatest comeback that the league has ever seen." - Kobe Bryant
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:14 pm Post subject:
leor_77 wrote:
If this so called "soft" Dwight Howard was on our team, we wouldn't be going through as much trouble as we're going through now. Just him being on your team all but guarantees a playoff spot.
We wouldn't be winning anything either and we wouldn't have cap space to improve. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
If this so called "soft" Dwight Howard was on our team, we wouldn't be going through as much trouble as we're going through now. Just him being on your team all but guarantees a playoff spot.
We wouldn't be winning anything either and we wouldn't have cap space to improve.
Hurt Mitch so much in the 04-08 era, didn't it? It isn't a bad thing to have an all-star on your team while you re-tool and stay in the playoffs. That's what we did from 2004-2008. We did it in the 90's too.
BTW, what do people think will draw these players to LA via FA if the team is crap and have no all-star in prime?
Not saying this is what LA should have done or it would have turned out well, but if you have Dwight on your team on a max K, Melo or Lebron or any star FA think a lot harder about coming to the team. Guys want to go play on a team where there's another star player in his prime. Kobe no longer fits that bill.
I've never found the whole Dwight stays sticks Lakers in mediocrity business. Sure maybe the first year or so. But with a GM like Mitch, and assuming Kobe wasn't given the K he did, Lakers would have put forth a contender very soon IMO. The biggest problem was finding a way to do it with Howard on a MAX and Kobe on a grandfathered MAX as well. But assuming Lakers were operating under the assumption that their primary goal was to build a contender with Howard as the main chip, there's no doubt they could have accomplished that. They could have had capspace and Howard on contract. A lot of FA's would jump ship for that. Simply the current trend in the NBA. In a way, that's what Howard did with HOU. What Lebron did with MIA and then back to CLE. To get stars, you need that first domino in place. That was Howard. In losing Howard, Lakers lost out at any chance at a star FA in 2014. So to me when people talk about capspace and Howard killing the chances there, I find that odd, because the current trend in the NBA dictates that keeping Howard helps our "FA" sweepstakes.
Define "soft". I just think it was more so plenty of trash talking. I doubt Bean really thinks a dude that lives in the paint, welcomes contact, and defensive player of the year multiple times can be really labeled soft.
Think it may have been blown out of proportion on both sides. I mean while he was here, he played through that bad back and wasn't supposed to suit up until Jamuary/February. That's not soft.
I thought Kobe explained what he meant very well. Dwight is soft when it comes to winning. He is a good player and I am sure wants to win, but wants to do it on his terms. With the Lakers that would be as a supporting role to Kobe. Pau went from being the top option in Memphis to supporting Kobe because he wanted to win titles. Kobe refrained from pushing his own abilities and supported Shaq because he knew that was what it took to win. Dwight won't do that, just the fact that he came here and refused to run the P&R and instead wanted to have a back to the basket game illustrates that softness. He wasn't willing to do what was asked of him in order to win, because it wasn't his way.
Accurate.
Would it be nice to have Dwight as a trade chip? Absolutely! As one of the main pieces, and important cogs you build around for a title, though? I didn't and don't see it. Replace Duncan with Dwight on the Spurs, and they don't win any of their titles, even the most recent.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
If this so called "soft" Dwight Howard was on our team, we wouldn't be going through as much trouble as we're going through now. Just him being on your team all but guarantees a playoff spot.
We wouldn't be winning anything either and we wouldn't have cap space to improve.
Hurt Mitch so much in the 04-08 era, didn't it? It isn't a bad thing to have an all-star on your team while you re-tool and stay in the playoffs. That's what we did from 2004-2008. We did it in the 90's too.
BTW, what do people think will draw these players to LA via FA if the team is crap and have no all-star in prime?
Not saying this is what LA should have done or it would have turned out well, but if you have Dwight on your team on a max K, Melo or Lebron or any star FA think a lot harder about coming to the team. Guys want to go play on a team where there's another star player in his prime. Kobe no longer fits that bill.
I've never found the whole Dwight stays sticks Lakers in mediocrity business. Sure maybe the first year or so. But with a GM like Mitch, and assuming Kobe wasn't given the K he did, Lakers would have put forth a contender very soon IMO. The biggest problem was finding a way to do it with Howard on a MAX and Kobe on a grandfathered MAX as well. But assuming Lakers were operating under the assumption that their primary goal was to build a contender with Howard as the main chip, there's no doubt they could have accomplished that. They could have had capspace and Howard on contract. A lot of FA's would jump ship for that. Simply the current trend in the NBA. In a way, that's what Howard did with HOU. What Lebron did with MIA and then back to CLE. To get stars, you need that first domino in place. That was Howard. In losing Howard, Lakers lost out at any chance at a star FA in 2014. So to me when people talk about capspace and Howard killing the chances there, I find that odd, because the current trend in the NBA dictates that keeping Howard helps our "FA" sweepstakes.
We have the same all star now that we had in 2004-2008. I am not sure what one has seen from Howard that you can build a contender with him as the main guy. As a secondary guy? Sure, if he buys in. He didn't here. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Eddie Jones was a secondary guy. Shaq came to play with Eddie, NVE and LA. If LA's team sucked bad with a 40 year old Magic, who still wanted to be the MAN on the team, do you think Shaq signs in 96?
The point isn't if Howard is a #1, 2 or 3. I don't even care if all he is a player who can have Chris Bosh 3rd best player impact. The point is Howard is an established all-star in prime, with prime years ahead. These are the sort of players that lure in more talent Via FA.
If Lakers want to succeed via FA, they have to detach themselves from Kobe and bring in a younger all-star who can lure in the other big fish. Its not about Kobe's personality, it's age. You would have seen the same thing with MJ/Washington if they had capspace back then as well.
Eddie Jones was a secondary guy. Shaq came to play with Eddie, NVE and LA. If LA's team sucked bad with a 40 year old Magic, who still wanted to be the MAN on the team, do you think Shaq signs in 96?
The point isn't if Howard is a #1, 2 or 3. I don't even care if all he is a player who can have Chris Bosh 3rd best player impact. The point is Howard is an established all-star in prime, with prime years ahead. These are the sort of players that lure in more talent Via FA.
If Lakers want to succeed via FA, they have to detach themselves from Kobe and bring in a younger all-star who can lure in the other big fish. Its not about Kobe's personality, it's age. You would have seen the same thing with MJ/Washington if they had capspace back then as well.
This is all true, but we have to go with Kobe's whims because cutting him loose could potentially be such a disaster that no one would sign here.
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
I agree with that even though Kobe would have trouble dragging this roster to playoffs even in his prime that's how bad this roster is. Kobe not close to being in his prime of course, but I still expect him to have pretty good season not great if healthy his days of being top 5 player are over with.
Amazingly, he carried a team with Smush, Devean George, Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom, with a bench of Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Sasha Vujacic to a 45-win season. Odom is a nice #2, but everyone else is complete garbage. Our roster now is better than that roster (Young/Boozer/Lin/Hill/Davis) IMO.
Not even close IMO. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
One thing I want to say ... I know I harp on Kobe a lot, but that "wont back down" mentality is a dying state of mind. I couldn't see Lebron or any of the new school guys responding in that way and I think that is a shame.
At the same time, I don't know how you guys felt, but, that whole incident made me feel bad for Kobe more than anything. Perhaps it was because Julius had gone down, but I also think it was a combination of the fact that Kobe's days are clearly numbered, he's on a team that is just going to have a tough time competing on a night to night basis.
I appreciate his toughness, but, I was also saddened by the fact that there was a time when Kobe could back up his toughness on the court, but the combination of his age/mileage/injury and a poor supporting cast, makes it almost impossible for him to do anymore.
Don't cry for Kobe. For dudes like him, and I know, it's about process as much as result. Obviously, you want both, but you can't control your roster or injuries. You can control your own process. He'll focus on that and know tht he gave it his all. And frankly, I expect him to play 4 more years.
I think it's more the realization, he can't carry a team the way he used to. In his prime, we might still have lost that game, but I believe we would have been right there. And had we been right there, Kobe and Dwight would have stayed in.
And prime Kobe, he would have taken it to Dwight on every possession possible.
But in 2014, he can't do that because he can't carry the team like he used to and the game was already so far out of reach, it only made sense for him to helplessly sit on the bench. Just, I don't know, a little sad I thought.
By the way, I agree with your comment about Westbrook. He loves to be hated.
Give Kobe a month of NBA play now before you bury him.
Haven't buried him. I still think he's going to be the 20-22 PPG scorer I believe he'll finish out the season as.
I'm just not sure if he can carry a poor surrounding cast like he was able to when he was younger.
I don't know if that qualifies as burying him by your definition but it's not for mine.
I'm upping it to 27 ppg. Skill set is off the charts. No one on the team besides him can score. Opposing defenses swarm him, and he's averaging 25 ppg in 28 minutes. He seems to have lost 3-4 inches on his vert but I expect him to regain at least half of that. His handle is better, he can still get around guys and he's gonna average around 34 min/game. Yeah, I can see him challenging for the scoring title. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
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