*** Spurs @ Lakers *** 11-14-14 7:00pm PT
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tolivendiewithLA
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:31 am    Post subject:

Magic2Kobe wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Magic2Kobe wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


H2H's don't mean much. Steve Nash has a head-to-head advantage vs. Kobe. So does Dirk, who absolutely dominated Kobe statistically in their matchup.

Also, Duncan's overall stats are slightly better given how dominant he was on the boards when he played the Lakers.

The fact Duncan was the overall best player during last year's title run (led the Spurs in all advanced categories and was statistically their best defender) is nothing short of extraordinary.

And 1 extra Finals MVP gives him the better career. It is what is.


Tim Duncan's highlight reel vs Kobe's?

And no.. The MVP doesn't mean (bleep) over the entirety of their careers..


Highlight reels?

Baron Davis has a more entertaining highlight reel than Tim Duncan. So what?

Duncan and Kobe are basically a wash, but Duncan went ahead after last year's title run, in which he was the overall most important player.

And no, he wasn't the 6th best player on the team as some other poster stated. He led the Spurs in Offensive win shares, total win shares, +/-, rebounding, blocks, and was their second leading scorer.

Quote:
ESPN Article: It is arguable as to who was the Spurs' most valuable player of the Finals, and certainly Kawhi Leonard was terrific and deserving of the Finals MVP trophy. It is clear, though, that one man stands tallest when discussing the best player since the start of the playoffs. King James has worn this crown for years, and deservedly so, but there is a new Postseason King this year. Long Live King Duncan V.


What puts Duncan ahead for me is how he's brilliantly adapted to the new space and pace era of the NBA. He's knows force-feeding him through the post in iso situations is as obsolete as the two handed set shot. Kobe can't get this through his head and still thinks we're in the mid-00s.

I wish Kobe had adjusted after the shellacking the Mavs gave us in '11, but he just couldn't see the writing on the wall, foreseeing how the game would evolve.

Duncan is simply the best basketball player of his generation.


Duncan adjusted nothing but his paycheck while the Spurs held onto their other tops players and cleverly found great role players. Duncan's numbers had dropped off between 2008-2011 badly, he was making 22 mill then. He took a pay cut and became a 2nd and 3rd option most nights and the Spurs started winning again. Duncan gets by because he was an all-time great who completely minimized his role. But he was so good to begin with now with less pressure and less of a role he's like an amazing role player. Kobe doesn't have that luxury. Even if you talk about how much money Kobe makes, even with our supposed to be stacked team in 2012 remember how much of the load Kobe had to carry? It was ridiculous, Duncan doesn't have that pressure.

And Kobe is the best of his generation, Duncan can only split it at this point. Kobe's done enough already that peoples short term memories aren't going to come into play. Hell Kobe was voted player of the 2000's decade.
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Magic2Kobe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:51 am    Post subject:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Magic2Kobe wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Magic2Kobe wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


H2H's don't mean much. Steve Nash has a head-to-head advantage vs. Kobe. So does Dirk, who absolutely dominated Kobe statistically in their matchup.

Also, Duncan's overall stats are slightly better given how dominant he was on the boards when he played the Lakers.

The fact Duncan was the overall best player during last year's title run (led the Spurs in all advanced categories and was statistically their best defender) is nothing short of extraordinary.

And 1 extra Finals MVP gives him the better career. It is what is.


Tim Duncan's highlight reel vs Kobe's?

And no.. The MVP doesn't mean (bleep) over the entirety of their careers..


Highlight reels?

Baron Davis has a more entertaining highlight reel than Tim Duncan. So what?

Duncan and Kobe are basically a wash, but Duncan went ahead after last year's title run, in which he was the overall most important player.

And no, he wasn't the 6th best player on the team as some other poster stated. He led the Spurs in Offensive win shares, total win shares, +/-, rebounding, blocks, and was their second leading scorer.

Quote:
ESPN Article: It is arguable as to who was the Spurs' most valuable player of the Finals, and certainly Kawhi Leonard was terrific and deserving of the Finals MVP trophy. It is clear, though, that one man stands tallest when discussing the best player since the start of the playoffs. King James has worn this crown for years, and deservedly so, but there is a new Postseason King this year. Long Live King Duncan V.


What puts Duncan ahead for me is how he's brilliantly adapted to the new space and pace era of the NBA. He's knows force-feeding him through the post in iso situations is as obsolete as the two handed set shot. Kobe can't get this through his head and still thinks we're in the mid-00s.

I wish Kobe had adjusted after the shellacking the Mavs gave us in '11, but he just couldn't see the writing on the wall, foreseeing how the game would evolve.

Duncan is simply the best basketball player of his generation.


Duncan adjusted nothing but his paycheck while the Spurs held onto their other tops players and cleverly found great role players. Duncan's numbers had dropped off between 2008-2011 badly, he was making 22 mill then. He took a pay cut and became a 2nd and 3rd option most nights and the Spurs started winning again. Duncan gets by because he was an all-time great who completely minimized his role. But he was so good to begin with now with less pressure and less of a role he's like an amazing role player. Kobe doesn't have that luxury. Even if you talk about how much money Kobe makes, even with our supposed to be stacked team in 2012 remember how much of the load Kobe had to carry? It was ridiculous, Duncan doesn't have that pressure.

And Kobe is the best of his generation, Duncan can only split it at this point. Kobe's done enough already that peoples short term memories aren't going to come into play. Hell Kobe was voted player of the 2000's decade.


Duncan still anchors that defense. His defensive metrics have decreased only slightly since his prime. And in his last 3 playoffs/Finals runs, he outplayed nearly all his counterpart(s) in every series: From Blake Griffin to our own Howard and Gasol to Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph to Chris Bosh to Dirk to Chris Bosh again. The only opposing big who had better numbers was LaMarcus Aldridge, and even then LMA shot 41%.

Yeah, Duncan's offense load has decreased some, but so what? That's only half the game. Duncan's defensive load in the interior is still as demanding as it was when he was in his prime. And he can still score at 20+ppg rate when needed. And on this note, his Usage Percentage the last 3 years was only about 2 percent lower than his usage during the '03 title run.

Yeah, he really "minimized his role,"
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Magic2Kobe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:06 am    Post subject:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Magic2Kobe wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


H2H's don't mean much. Steve Nash has a head-to-head advantage vs. Kobe. So does Dirk, who absolutely dominated Kobe statistically in their matchup.

Also, Duncan's overall stats are slightly better given how dominant he was on the boards when he played the Lakers.

The fact Duncan was the overall best player during last year's title run (led the Spurs in all advanced categories and was statistically their best defender) is nothing short of extraordinary.

And 1 extra Finals MVP gives him the better career. It is what is.


No bro, the H2H does mean something in this case. If you are a Lakers fan and not 10, you watched it. The overlap between Kobe and TD's playoff meetings was during most of their primes. And Kobe dominated the Spurs in big moments to, WCF ring a bell? In their playoff meetings the winner often went on to the Finals. And the fact that Kobe shot the same percent and outscored TD gives him the statistical edge. Don't start bringing advanced stats in, first they're misleading and second are more geared to edge a Big man.

Nash had a H2H edge when Kobe had a starting lineup of Smush, Walton, young Odom and Kwame. And Dirk caught the Lakers coming off 3 straight Finals trips with star players having Olympic trips as well. The rosters and timing is different then Duncan and Kobe. And very important the overall resumes of Kobe and Duncan are so even that H2H playoff match ups this often, 6 meetings definitely carries weight. Actual noted Laker hater Bill Simmons has eluded to this before and often skips over it when comparing the two cause he knows it matters.

Duncan wasn't the best player last year for the Spurs run. He was a 2nd option to Parker and then Leonard got hot and won the Finals MVP. This is the advantage Duncan has be causes he's already in the take less era of his career. Most nights he's the 3rd scoring option with little pressure on his shoulders.


So rebounds, blocks, steals, and assists don't count now?

Duncan will obviously win the rebounding battle, but he won it at over a 2 to 1 rate (again, to be expected). Also impressive is that he averaged only about half an assist less than Kobe (4.2 to 4.6) and half a steal less (0.9 to 1.3). But he averaged 8 times as many blocks, so Duncan is closer to Kobe in the guard stats than Kobe is closer to him in the big stats.

Also, despite their equal shooting percentages, Duncan was more efficient, averaging 25.2 points on 19 shots per game (1.3 points per shot) to Kobe's 28.2 points on 23.7 shots (1.19 points per shot).

I don't need to appeal to advanced stats. Duncan's "raw" stats are slightly better.

All head-to-head records prove is whose team was better. I don't know why anyone would use them in a player vs. player argument.

If Kobe's stats were markedly superior to Duncan's, then you can say he got the better of him. But that's not the case.
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Gwyn
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:20 am    Post subject:

Whose smurf is Magic2Kobe?
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Magic2Kobe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject:

Gwyn wrote:
Whose smurf is Magic2Kobe?


Because I think Duncan had a slightly better career than Kobe, I'm a troll now?
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Andre2K
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject:

Are we on spurstalk or is it lakersground? Over here Kobe is king.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject:

Kobe>Duncan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject:

Clarkson will be sent to the Dfenders for tonight's opener versus Texas, he will be back with Lakers on Sunday.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject:

bws94 wrote:
catman2u wrote:
Jonathan1212 wrote:
Charisma wrote:
Jonathan1212 wrote:
lin trying to get his stats in garbage time


Stop the hate already. He's making the final score less embarrassing.


I wasn't hating. Except for getting ripped twice in a row he had a good game. If the team could have hit the side of a barn he would have had like ten assists.

Boozer, Lin, n Clarkson played ok. I would have liked Lin to take some more shots, but every time he passed to Hill, Hill laid a brick.

Hill, Kobe, Davis, Wes.... wow. Maybe the Spurs are really just that good. They made us look that bad. They willed jordan hill to miss all those open jumpshots.


If Lin is hitting the open man and they score it opens up lanes for him later in the game. He is often able to get past the 1st defender but often comes up against a wall of bigs. Something is wrong with this Byron Scott offense.


The open man he's hitting is often Hill for jump shots. They didn't fall tonight. He had a nice PnR with Boozer, why don't they do this more?


He's done it with Davis as well. I don't understand why it doesn't happen more often.
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catman2u
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject:

GigaPaladin wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


Exactly just a bunch of gd h8rs. Dirt off your shoulders bruhs!


Sorry to say t but that was then, this is now. Jeter didn't constantly try to be a hero swing for the fencesor strike out to win games by himself. If Kobe is shooting 1-12 perhaps he needs to work harder to get assists and hockey assists. He passed up many assists opportunities last night. There's no guaranty that a team mates shot will go in but 1: they won't shoot worse then 1-14 and 2: Its better to get the team involved, moving the ball around. I don't see Kobe hero ball as a viable option for winning.
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catman2u
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:13 am    Post subject:

bws94 wrote:
catman2u wrote:
Jonathan1212 wrote:
Charisma wrote:
Jonathan1212 wrote:
lin trying to get his stats in garbage time


Stop the hate already. He's making the final score less embarrassing.


I wasn't hating. Except for getting ripped twice in a row he had a good game. If the team could have hit the side of a barn he would have had like ten assists.

Boozer, Lin, n Clarkson played ok. I would have liked Lin to take some more shots, but every time he passed to Hill, Hill laid a brick.

Hill, Kobe, Davis, Wes.... wow. Maybe the Spurs are really just that good. They made us look that bad. They willed jordan hill to miss all those open jumpshots.


If Lin is hitting the open man and they score it opens up lanes for him later in the game. He is often able to get past the 1st defender but often comes up against a wall of bigs. Something is wrong with this Byron Scott offense.


The open man he's hitting is often Hill for jump shots. They didn't fall tonight. He had a nice PnR with Boozer, why don't they do this more?


I they should do more p&r. Why then don't IDK. Lin can only hit the open man. If its Jordan Hill 20 feet away he can't pass it to Jordan Hill under the basket. Something is not right with BS's offensive system.
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catman2u
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject:

Charisma wrote:
Jonathan1212 wrote:
Charisma wrote:
Jonathan1212 wrote:
lin trying to get his stats in garbage time


Stop the hate already. He's making the final score less embarrassing.


I wasn't hating. Except for getting ripped twice in a row he had a good game. If the team could have hit the side of a barn he would have had like ten assists.

Boozer, Lin, n Clarkson played ok. I would have liked Lin to take some more shots, but every time he passed to Hill, Hill laid a brick.

Hill, Kobe, Davis, Wes.... wow. Maybe the Spurs are really just that good. They made us look that bad. They willed jordan hill to miss all those open jumpshots.


Oh ok .

I don't think the team played that bad tonight. We played some good D and got some good looks. It was unfortunate that shots were not falling. At some point I really thought we had a chance.


Still way way too many long range 2s. Its a recipe for the failure we've seen so far this year. Sure Jordan Hill got hot one game and they won but they are inevitably low percentage. A very poor game plan.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject:

blueice wrote:
fqy1000 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
blueice wrote:
I don't understand what's going on. Seems that we could stay in the game in the first half, but always collapsed in the 2nd half?


Teams are just toying with us....
When they start to turn it on in the 3rd and 4th quarter offensively, we have nothing for them.


We collapsed from the beginning. Trailed all games at half time - that's us


Well, not really. When we were behind like 8 pts, our players were still trying...


Its almost the same scenario every game. The team gets within 8 points then Boozer will push someone in the back to get an easy rebound, foul TO. Then someone will "forget" to protect the rim, 10 pt lead. Then someone will take a long range 2 instead of trying to work it inside, missed shot, bigs slow getting back, 12 pt lead.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject:

blueice wrote:
Kobe2Jules wrote:
blueice wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
blueice wrote:
I don't understand what's going on. Seems that we could stay in the game in the first half, but always collapsed in the 2nd half?


Teams are just toying with us....
When they start to turn it on in the 3rd and 4th quarter offensively, we have nothing for them.


Nah, I don't think as serious as Spurs do that . If they don't play their big 3s that much, it's not because it's against us. It's their rest plan from the very beginning.

I don't think you would argue that Spurs was disrespecting the Heats when they used their 2nd unit last year.

Our chances were that they are still adjusting and their shootings were cold. Too bad we didn't seize the chance to steal a win due to our own weaknesses.


We had the game in hand, only down 7 points towards the end of the 3rd when Hill (I think?) missed a pair of freethrows. That was the turning point. Boozer was great tonight, hope to see more of that agressiveness and tenacity in the future. Clarkson too, in 5 years there may be consensus he was the steal of the draft.


The good thing is that this game didn't seem as despair as last one...I certainly hope it's not flash in the pan...


Seriously, Scott needs to try more players. I know we are weak, but you gotta explore other bench players while asking the 1st unit to build chemistry and have better spacing.


Let's hope having Nick Young will make a difference at the 3 point line, opening up driving lanes.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject:

blueice wrote:
Kobe2Jules wrote:
blueice wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
blueice wrote:
I don't understand what's going on. Seems that we could stay in the game in the first half, but always collapsed in the 2nd half?


Teams are just toying with us....
When they start to turn it on in the 3rd and 4th quarter offensively, we have nothing for them.


Nah, I don't think as serious as Spurs do that . If they don't play their big 3s that much, it's not because it's against us. It's their rest plan from the very beginning.

I don't think you would argue that Spurs was disrespecting the Heats when they used their 2nd unit last year.

Our chances were that they are still adjusting and their shootings were cold. Too bad we didn't seize the chance to steal a win due to our own weaknesses.


We had the game in hand, only down 7 points towards the end of the 3rd when Hill (I think?) missed a pair of freethrows. That was the turning point. Boozer was great tonight, hope to see more of that agressiveness and tenacity in the future. Clarkson too, in 5 years there may be consensus he was the steal of the draft.


The good thing is that this game didn't seem as despair as last one...I certainly hope it's not flash in the pan...


Seriously, Scott needs to try more players. I know we are weak, but you gotta explore other bench players while asking the 1st unit to build chemistry and have better spacing.


The Spurs had been shooting low 20 percent from the arc yet were still 5-3. They system is a winning system.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject:

catman2u wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


Exactly just a bunch of gd h8rs. Dirt off your shoulders bruhs!


Sorry to say t but that was then, this is now. Jeter didn't constantly try to be a hero swing for the fencesor strike out to win games by himself. If Kobe is shooting 1-12 perhaps he needs to work harder to get assists and hockey assists. He passed up many assists opportunities last night. There's no guaranty that a team mates shot will go in but 1: they won't shoot worse then 1-14 and 2: Its better to get the team involved, moving the ball around. I don't see Kobe hero ball as a viable option for winning.


What? Did you even watch last night game? Kobe was playing team basketball he was unselfish majority of last game trying to get his teammates more involved. Kobe had some good passes to Boozer, Davis, and great pass to Jordan Hill who couldn't convert layup. Kobe shooting was short a lot due to sickness and looked gassed out there. Get off the guys back already (bleep)...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject:

catman2u wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


Exactly just a bunch of gd h8rs. Dirt off your shoulders bruhs!


Sorry to say t but that was then, this is now. Jeter didn't constantly try to be a hero swing for the fencesor strike out to win games by himself. If Kobe is shooting 1-12 perhaps he needs to work harder to get assists and hockey assists. He passed up many assists opportunities last night. There's no guaranty that a team mates shot will go in but 1: they won't shoot worse then 1-14 and 2: Its better to get the team involved, moving the ball around. I don't see Kobe hero ball as a viable option for winning.


Yes, you can do it...let the hate flow....
Kobe halved his field goal attempts from this previous games and was doing a lot of deferring to his teammates and passed the ball a lot....he knew he wasn't feeling well and you could see if you actually watched the game. The problem was his shots wasn't falling in.....it happens every now and then.
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blueice
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject:

catman2u wrote:
blueice wrote:
Kobe2Jules wrote:
blueice wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
blueice wrote:
I don't understand what's going on. Seems that we could stay in the game in the first half, but always collapsed in the 2nd half?


Teams are just toying with us....
When they start to turn it on in the 3rd and 4th quarter offensively, we have nothing for them.


Nah, I don't think as serious as Spurs do that . If they don't play their big 3s that much, it's not because it's against us. It's their rest plan from the very beginning.

I don't think you would argue that Spurs was disrespecting the Heats when they used their 2nd unit last year.

Our chances were that they are still adjusting and their shootings were cold. Too bad we didn't seize the chance to steal a win due to our own weaknesses.


We had the game in hand, only down 7 points towards the end of the 3rd when Hill (I think?) missed a pair of freethrows. That was the turning point. Boozer was great tonight, hope to see more of that agressiveness and tenacity in the future. Clarkson too, in 5 years there may be consensus he was the steal of the draft.


The good thing is that this game didn't seem as despair as last one...I certainly hope it's not flash in the pan...


Seriously, Scott needs to try more players. I know we are weak, but you gotta explore other bench players while asking the 1st unit to build chemistry and have better spacing.


The Spurs had been shooting low 20 percent from the arc yet were still 5-3. They system is a winning system.



7-8 men rotation is not the solution, that's all I can say. We have what we have now, so plz try to explore any possibility.
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tolivendiewithLA
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Magic2Kobe wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Magic2Kobe wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


H2H's don't mean much. Steve Nash has a head-to-head advantage vs. Kobe. So does Dirk, who absolutely dominated Kobe statistically in their matchup.

Also, Duncan's overall stats are slightly better given how dominant he was on the boards when he played the Lakers.

The fact Duncan was the overall best player during last year's title run (led the Spurs in all advanced categories and was statistically their best defender) is nothing short of extraordinary.

And 1 extra Finals MVP gives him the better career. It is what is.


No bro, the H2H does mean something in this case. If you are a Lakers fan and not 10, you watched it. The overlap between Kobe and TD's playoff meetings was during most of their primes. And Kobe dominated the Spurs in big moments to, WCF ring a bell? In their playoff meetings the winner often went on to the Finals. And the fact that Kobe shot the same percent and outscored TD gives him the statistical edge. Don't start bringing advanced stats in, first they're misleading and second are more geared to edge a Big man.

Nash had a H2H edge when Kobe had a starting lineup of Smush, Walton, young Odom and Kwame. And Dirk caught the Lakers coming off 3 straight Finals trips with star players having Olympic trips as well. The rosters and timing is different then Duncan and Kobe. And very important the overall resumes of Kobe and Duncan are so even that H2H playoff match ups this often, 6 meetings definitely carries weight. Actual noted Laker hater Bill Simmons has eluded to this before and often skips over it when comparing the two cause he knows it matters.

Duncan wasn't the best player last year for the Spurs run. He was a 2nd option to Parker and then Leonard got hot and won the Finals MVP. This is the advantage Duncan has be causes he's already in the take less era of his career. Most nights he's the 3rd scoring option with little pressure on his shoulders.


So rebounds, blocks, steals, and assists don't count now?

Duncan will obviously win the rebounding battle, but he won it at over a 2 to 1 rate (again, to be expected). Also impressive is that he averaged only about half an assist less than Kobe (4.2 to 4.6) and half a steal less (0.9 to 1.3). But he averaged 8 times as many blocks, so Duncan is closer to Kobe in the guard stats than Kobe is closer to him in the big stats.

Also, despite their equal shooting percentages, Duncan was more efficient, averaging 25.2 points on 19 shots per game (1.3 points per shot) to Kobe's 28.2 points on 23.7 shots (1.19 points per shot).

I don't need to appeal to advanced stats. Duncan's "raw" stats are slightly better.

All head-to-head records prove is whose team was better. I don't know why anyone would use them in a player vs. player argument.

If Kobe's stats were markedly superior to Duncan's, then you can say he got the better of him. But that's not the case.


In the H2H Kobe shots a margin better than Duncan, 47.3% vs 47%, so Duncan as a Big's shooting dropped while Kobe's went up. With that Kobe's points edge and the fact he killed the Spurs often and was often times more responsible for those series wins then Shaq. This was 6 meetings in the playoff in their careers, too many to overlook Kobe's dominance. You can put your Spurs glasses on, cause clearly you're a Spurs fan in disguise, but Kobe owned Duncan H2H and that matters. Points per shot, rebounds and blocks are always going to favor a Big over a SG, I'd hope Duncan would have a higher PPS rate shooting mostly in close. The fact that you're trying to overlook 6 playoff meetings and the results shows your agenda. Duncan's been able to lean on Parker, Manu, and a great supporting cast since the 2007 Finals. Give Kobe that kind of help consistently he'd be sitting on 7 rings right now.
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Alloy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Magic2Kobe wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
Magic2Kobe wrote:
tolivendiewithLA wrote:
GigaPaladin wrote:
That poll though http://i.imgur.com/zXyubBN.png

Yikes


That poll either is rigged, shows basketball ignorance, a short term memory, or simply who is hated more.

Kobe still has as many Titles won as Duncan and hasn't had the luxury of being a 2nd/3rd and sometimes 4th option since 2008.

Kobe still has more WC Titles than Duncan, 7-6.

Kobe still has more 1st team ALL NBA selections than Duncan, the most ever.

Kobe still has more 1st team All NBA D selections than Duncan, the most ever, actually TD might be tied here.

Kobe will be the only 30,000, 6,000, 6,000 player ever, only MJ and Kobe only like 5,000, 1000, 1000 playoff players. Look that up forget the stat. Kobe will be 3rd in regular season scoring at least, 3rd in playoff scoring and 1st in AS game scoring.

Duncan's got more MVPs, but it's also clear Kobe got screwed out of at least 1.

How about we look at Kobe vs Duncan H2H in the playoffs?

Kobe series 4-2, Kobe record 18-10, and Kobe scores more and shoots a better % than Duncan does H2H. Kobe owned Duncan's Spurs.

Kobe's basically getting the opposite send off as Derek Jeter. Just getting hated on out the door by the media, never seen anything like it in sports for an all-time great, it's sad.


H2H's don't mean much. Steve Nash has a head-to-head advantage vs. Kobe. So does Dirk, who absolutely dominated Kobe statistically in their matchup.

Also, Duncan's overall stats are slightly better given how dominant he was on the boards when he played the Lakers.

The fact Duncan was the overall best player during last year's title run (led the Spurs in all advanced categories and was statistically their best defender) is nothing short of extraordinary.

And 1 extra Finals MVP gives him the better career. It is what is.


No bro, the H2H does mean something in this case. If you are a Lakers fan and not 10, you watched it. The overlap between Kobe and TD's playoff meetings was during most of their primes. And Kobe dominated the Spurs in big moments to, WCF ring a bell? In their playoff meetings the winner often went on to the Finals. And the fact that Kobe shot the same percent and outscored TD gives him the statistical edge. Don't start bringing advanced stats in, first they're misleading and second are more geared to edge a Big man.

Nash had a H2H edge when Kobe had a starting lineup of Smush, Walton, young Odom and Kwame. And Dirk caught the Lakers coming off 3 straight Finals trips with star players having Olympic trips as well. The rosters and timing is different then Duncan and Kobe. And very important the overall resumes of Kobe and Duncan are so even that H2H playoff match ups this often, 6 meetings definitely carries weight. Actual noted Laker hater Bill Simmons has eluded to this before and often skips over it when comparing the two cause he knows it matters.

Duncan wasn't the best player last year for the Spurs run. He was a 2nd option to Parker and then Leonard got hot and won the Finals MVP. This is the advantage Duncan has be causes he's already in the take less era of his career. Most nights he's the 3rd scoring option with little pressure on his shoulders.


So rebounds, blocks, steals, and assists don't count now?

Duncan will obviously win the rebounding battle, but he won it at over a 2 to 1 rate (again, to be expected). Also impressive is that he averaged only about half an assist less than Kobe (4.2 to 4.6) and half a steal less (0.9 to 1.3). But he averaged 8 times as many blocks, so Duncan is closer to Kobe in the guard stats than Kobe is closer to him in the big stats.

Also, despite their equal shooting percentages, Duncan was more efficient, averaging 25.2 points on 19 shots per game (1.3 points per shot) to Kobe's 28.2 points on 23.7 shots (1.19 points per shot).

I don't need to appeal to advanced stats. Duncan's "raw" stats are slightly better.

All head-to-head records prove is whose team was better. I don't know why anyone would use them in a player vs. player argument.

If Kobe's stats were markedly superior to Duncan's, then you can say he got the better of him. But that's not the case.


In the H2H Kobe shots a margin better than Duncan, 47.3% vs 47%, so Duncan as a Big's shooting dropped while Kobe's went up. With that Kobe's points edge and the fact he killed the Spurs often and was often times more responsible for those series wins then Shaq. This was 6 meetings in the playoff in their careers, too many to overlook Kobe's dominance. You can put your Spurs glasses on, cause clearly you're a Spurs fan in disguise, but Kobe owned Duncan H2H and that matters. Points per shot, rebounds and blocks are always going to favor a Big over a SG, I'd hope Duncan would have a higher PPS rate shooting mostly in close. The fact that you're trying to overlook 6 playoff meetings and the results shows your agenda. Duncan's been able to lean on Parker, Manu, and a great supporting cast since the 2007 Finals. Give Kobe that kind of help consistently he'd be sitting on 7 rings right now.


I am not a mod. but it is really annoying that you label someone who points out the weakness of your argument as a Spurs fan or having an agenda...
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