Lawsuits Challenging Admissions Policies At Harvard Univ. And Univ. Of North Carolina-Chapel Hill

 
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KobeRe-Loaded
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Lawsuits Challenging Admissions Policies At Harvard Univ. And Univ. Of North Carolina-Chapel Hill

It's about time!!

Students for Fair Admission's complaint highlights data and analysis that strongly suggests that white, African-American, and Hispanic applicants are given racial preferences over better qualified Asian-Americans applying for admission to Harvard.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/project-on-fair-representation-announces-lawsuits-challenging-admissions-policies-at-harvard-univ-and-univ-of-north-carolina-chapel-hill-282923841.html
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:36 am    Post subject:

LoL. It's funny that a minority group has been getting the shaft because they have been performing well.

Imagine if more influential minority groups start performing well and they start getting limited too. That would put schools in an awkward situation.

This part was especially interesting.
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The Harvard complaint documents the school's long, irrefutable, history of instituting admissions policies to limit the number of Jewish students beginning in the 1920's. The "Harvard Plan" itself—and the concept of an admissions system based on a "holistic" review of applicants instead of admission based on academic accomplishment—was formulated for the specific purpose of discriminating against Jews. Harvard's "holistic review" today is primarily a similar tool to limit the number of Asian Americans it admits each year.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject:

I wonder whether the plaintiffs actually have any evidence other than statistics. It would be interesting if they did.
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K28
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject:

In the 20s they had a Jew quota. That's been replaced with an Asian quota now. If they went with just SATs and GPAs, Harvard would be 80% Asian. Can't have that.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject:

The data on med school admissions is pretty interesting also.

http://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-at-us-medical-schools-in-2013-reveal-racial-profiling-and-affirmative-discrimination-for-blacks-hispanics/
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magickobe24
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
In the 20s they had a Jew quota. That's been replaced with an Asian quota now. If they went with just SATs and GPAs, Harvard would be 80% Asian. Can't have that.
what school goes purely by SATs and GPAs? Non.

So there that goes.

There's a reason why you have to fill out an application and at times write essays.

They dont want to just churn out bookworms. Which is why they wont just admit bookworms. And this is not a knock on BW's. Their is place for you too in society.

look at it like this, Are bookworms running most of the fortune 500 companies? NO. are they still relatively smart individuals? YES

The best of both worlds would be a bookworm with a serious personality. Someone who is about more then SAT scores and their GPA.

usually the SAT GPA guy will become some sort of research person in society. But they usually will not end up being the Leaders we all know.

now with all that said..YES their is an Asian quote.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Diversity of the student population due to income, extracurricular activities, hobbies, interests, politics, etc... are good. Skin color..
notsomuch. There are rich blacks and Latinos just like there are poor Asians.

It's pretty crazy how our institutions of higher learning whose job it is to mold minds, practice what is pretty much racial discrimination. But hey, at least they can think of excuses for it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes just shat a brick.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject:

At Harvard? That's Linstitutional discrimination!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
CandyCanes just shat a brick.


How did Stanford work out for you?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:47 am    Post subject:

I think having a diversity of cultures and perspectives is a valuable part of a campus community.

Unfortunately, what I've found is that:

A) Affirmative actions overwhelmingly benefits rich under-represented minorities, which just isn't fair since class is a bigger barrier than race.

B) People of all different groups tend to form cliques together anyway, so you don't really benefit from the multiculturalism the school is allegedly trying to receive.

My honest opinion is that most people don't want to see a campus which is over 40 percent Asian, so the powers-that-be hide behind a facade of progressivism in order to prevent it. It really is sort of a travesty, being able to take away over half a racial group's slots.

It really isn't even used as a tiebreaker like affirmative action defenders claim, either. Not even close.

I would make affirmative action socioeconomic.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:21 am    Post subject:

The academic achievement necessary to even be on Harvard's radar basically can't happen if you are poor. So it shouldn't surprise you that the black kids that do make it into your elite college are from more affluent or upper middle class backgrounds.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
The academic achievement necessary to even be on Harvard's radar basically can't happen if you are poor. So it shouldn't surprise you that the black kids that do make it into your elite college are from more affluent or upper middle class backgrounds.


One of my friends at Cornell is an African-American legacy.

Another time, I met a kid who was a Hispanic third generation legacy as well as a football recruit. He was dumb as a rock.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes has it right for a change. Being of the right economic class gets you into those colleges gets you the opportunity, not the color of the skin, except when it comes to Asians.

When race doesn't come in as a factor, Asians change the dynamic and more than double the admissions rate, approaching 50% of the incoming class. Berkeley, UCLA, and UCI are clear examples. UPenn is 44% Asian. Harvard and other Ivy Leagues pin it at 18-22% of the incoming class for this year.

There is a bill that is being pushed in CA that allows the UCs to factor in race again. Of course, that would then make the acceptance rate half, or less, of what it is now for Asians. Hopefully, that bill gets killed.

The _only_ affirmative action that we all know that must be fixed is that of people who are poor.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
CandyCanes has it right for a change. Being of the right economic class gets you into those colleges gets you the opportunity, not the color of the skin, except when it comes to Asians.

When race doesn't come in as a factor, Asians change the dynamic and more than double the admissions rate, approaching 50% of the incoming class. Berkeley, UCLA, and UCI are clear examples. UPenn is 44% Asian. Harvard and other Ivy Leagues pin it at 18-22% of the incoming class for this year.

There is a bill that is being pushed in CA that allows the UCs to factor in race again. Of course, that would then make the acceptance rate half, or less, of what it is now for Asians. Hopefully, that bill gets killed.

The _only_ affirmative action that we all know that must be fixed is that of people who are poor.


Penn is not 44% Asian.

My opinion is that race is probably still used holistically in the UCs, honestly. I can't *prove* it, but it's pretty apparent.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject:

It just seems wrong to purposely limit someone's opportunity because of their race.

Not sure why this isn't a HUGE issue.

Is it because Asians are not in fashion or something?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
It just seems wrong to purposely limit someone's opportunity because of their race.

Not sure why this isn't a HUGE issue.

Is it because Asians are not in fashion or something?


Because Asians have no real political power.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
In the 20s they had a Jew quota. That's been replaced with an Asian quota now. If they went with just SATs and GPAs, Harvard would be 80% Asian. Can't have that.



No doubt. There are so many legitimate questions and positions on this issue. At it's core is a debate between competing factors such as validity of tests for anything other than test taking, what admission to college and grad school actually means, proliferation of status quos or not, leveling of playing fields, what rights does anyone actually have, etc. Ultimately, the powers that be have always tried as much as possible to maintain that position and they continue to do so now as well. But I don't for a minute believe that standardized testing and GPA's by themselves represent a valid means to grant admission to these positions which are really just proxy for proximity and access to resources.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:23 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
It just seems wrong to purposely limit someone's opportunity because of their race.

Not sure why this isn't a HUGE issue.

Is it because Asians are not in fashion or something?


Because Asians have no real political power.



True. But part of that is on Asians communities, at least those that traditionally do well. You can't lump Japanese Americans in with Cambodian Americans anymore than you can lump African Americans with Caribbean refugees.

Those Asian populations that tend to dominate the academic landscape, namely, Japanese, Chinese and Koreans, also tend to work very hard to assimilate into white culture more so than blacks and Latinos do. That sets up a completely different dynamic in these types of situations.
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