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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | gng930 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
The insurance company isn't getting some cut for services rendered. They don't add to the cost.
Bur the existence of an insurance company may make providers increase their prices because they know that there's a big rich company that would have to pay for it. |
Both arguments defy fundamental mathematics. If you can't grasp that then you haven't been paying attention. |
No. They don't add to the cost of the service or procedure.
Do you know what insurance is? |
They can add to the total experience. I have proof of that. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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revgen Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 10220
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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gng930 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
The insurance company isn't getting some cut for services rendered. They don't add to the cost.
Bur the existence of an insurance company may make providers increase their prices because they know that there's a big rich company that would have to pay for it. |
Both arguments defy fundamental mathematics. If you can't grasp that then you haven't been paying attention. |
So says the person who keeps using the term "middle-man" to describe an insurance company. _________________ I Recommend VLC Player: http://www.videolan.org/ |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | gng930 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
The insurance company isn't getting some cut for services rendered. They don't add to the cost.
Bur the existence of an insurance company may make providers increase their prices because they know that there's a big rich company that would have to pay for it. |
Both arguments defy fundamental mathematics. If you can't grasp that then you haven't been paying attention. |
No. They don't add to the cost of the service or procedure.
Do you know what insurance is? |
They can add to the total experience. I have proof of that. |
Total experience as in the insurance costs you money?
I was referring to the cost of the medical service.
As far as I know, insurance companies don't tell providers, "Hey. You should charge more money because we want to have to pay those higher prices." |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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revgen wrote: | gng930 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
The insurance company isn't getting some cut for services rendered. They don't add to the cost.
Bur the existence of an insurance company may make providers increase their prices because they know that there's a big rich company that would have to pay for it. |
Both arguments defy fundamental mathematics. If you can't grasp that then you haven't been paying attention. |
So says the person who keeps using the term "middle-man" to describe an insurance company. |
What if Hospitals owned the insurance companies... Guaranteeing they will get paid what they charge? |
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Conker Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2010 Posts: 13056 Location: MDC
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: |
its not... you just wont admit that a social health care system is best for this country.... |
Not if it is run by the government. I don't want my healthcare being as crappy as our roads. |
What?!
My friend said that when his two children didn't had MedicAid, the doctors just did a half-ass job and nothing else. But now, with MedicAid, his children get the first-class treatment with all these procedures and medicine.
Same with my friend who got involved in an alcohol-related car crash (her fault too ) last month. Gotten the surgery on her leg while she was knocked out, stay stay at the hospital for free. Now, at home, she gets free check-ups, medication deliver to her, and a nurse that comes to her house for routine check-up. All this on MedicAid. The (bleep) never worked in her life, if not, just "hustle" enough dollars just to get her bag of weed for the day yet she gets treated like first-class citizen. While her brother who was the passenger got the big "Get the hell out of here" and had to walk home limping and bruised up.
If that is crappy on "social health care" part - Hell, give that to me. Because I know if I was me, uninsured, I'll just be "stabilized" and out the door the next day with a fat bill and no further help. _________________ (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) ʕʘᴥʘʔ (⌐ ͡■ ͜ʖ ͡■) (┛◉Д◉)┛( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ༼;´༎ຶ ༎ຶ༽ |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | gng930 wrote: | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | http://www.healthline.com/health-news/policy-hospital-medicare-bills-vary-widely-contributing-to-high-costs-050813
Quote: | For example, being admitted for chest pain costs an average of $2,459 if it's treated at Lake Whitney Medical Center in Whitney, Texas, but $81,083 at Bayonne Hospital Center in Bayonne, N.J.
Treatment for high blood pressure ranges from $2,957 to $68,961. Treatment for hardened arteries can cost anywhere from $3,070 to $69,197. Joint replacements may vary in price by more than $200,000.
These costs are covered by a variety of sources, including private insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, patient co-pays, and other sources, and are often negotiated without the patient’s knowledge.
Perhaps the best explanation for the pricing discrepancies is that hospitals can charge, in essence, whatever people will pay, considering that medical treatment rarely offers the consumer a chance to shop around. |
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If you've ever seen the resources required to treat the morbidly obese patient with a history of multiple medical illness and complications typical at bigger hospitals in urban centers versus the previously-healthy patient that is more typical at small hospitals in rural areas you would understand why there is so much variation in cost.
The idea of fixed costs considering the wide spectrum of patients faced is a joke. Just skimming through that price list of the Oklahoma medical center, I saw almost entirely elective procedures that have no business being performed on acutely-ill patients. |
Why does that create a variation in cost as opposed to just having that one patient accruing expenses? |
Huh?
What I'm saying is that it shouldn't surprise that being admitted to a hospital for a given diagnosis can vary depending on the patient's pre-existing medical condition and course of the hospitalization. Yes, they may have been admitted for "chest pain", "high blood pressure", or "hardened arteries" but those are oversimplifications. There are more than 100 diagnosis codes associated with "chest pain" which could range from muscle spasm to a massive heart attack. "High blood pressure" could be a single elevated reading requiring a pill to one leading to a crippling brain bleed. There are several major arteries in your body; obviously the cost to treat depends on the severity, number, and size of the arteries involved.
None of that takes into account complications that arise in the course of the hospitalization. More complicated patients will inherently be more susceptible to complications and therefore accrue more costs. There are 90-year-olds who only take a cholesterol medication coming in for pneumonia and leave within days. On the other hand, there are 90-year-olds who've had multiple strokes, have become bed-bound and reside in nursing facilities who come in for pneumonia who don't fare as well.
Last edited by gng930 on Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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revgen wrote: | gng930 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
The insurance company isn't getting some cut for services rendered. They don't add to the cost.
Bur the existence of an insurance company may make providers increase their prices because they know that there's a big rich company that would have to pay for it. |
Both arguments defy fundamental mathematics. If you can't grasp that then you haven't been paying attention. |
So says the person who keeps using the term "middle-man" to describe an insurance company. |
Obviously they are not middlemen in the traditional sense. No matter who you choose to identify as the ones that patients pay premiums to and who cuts the checks to providers, it's ultimately patients as a whole paying for medical care and providers getting paid for medical care.
Do you deny that if insurance companies did not exist and people simply paid hospitals and doctors directly for their care that the total national cost of healthcare would not decrease? |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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gng930 wrote: | revgen wrote: | gng930 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
The insurance company isn't getting some cut for services rendered. They don't add to the cost.
Bur the existence of an insurance company may make providers increase their prices because they know that there's a big rich company that would have to pay for it. |
Both arguments defy fundamental mathematics. If you can't grasp that then you haven't been paying attention. |
So says the person who keeps using the term "middle-man" to describe an insurance company. |
Obviously they are not middlemen in the traditional sense. No matter who you choose to identify as the ones that patients pay premiums to and who cuts the checks to providers, it's ultimately patients as a whole paying for medical care and providers getting paid for medical care.
Do you deny that if insurance companies did not exist and people simply paid hospitals and doctors directly for their care that the total national cost of healthcare would not decrease? |
Oh, I definitely deny it. Insurance companies make HUGE profits. Those dollars have nothing to do with the doctor/hospital patient relationship. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Krispy Kreme wrote: | and the private doctors find sneaky ways to get money too while you are in the hospital.
i once was in the hospital, and my hospital bill was a certain amount (which my insurance all but covered) but I had side bills from these private doctors who came to see me.
next time I end up in the hospital, I'm telling the head nurse that I do not want to see ANY private doctors other than my own.
it's stupid I should even have to do that. |
Just had this happen to me. I think I talked to him twice for a total of twenty minutes and the charge was $700 |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I wonder in which industries does the time spent on a client entirely equate to the time spent directly interacting with that client. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | gng930 wrote: | Reflexx wrote: |
The insurance company isn't getting some cut for services rendered. They don't add to the cost.
Bur the existence of an insurance company may make providers increase their prices because they know that there's a big rich company that would have to pay for it. |
Both arguments defy fundamental mathematics. If you can't grasp that then you haven't been paying attention. |
No. They don't add to the cost of the service or procedure.
Do you know what insurance is? |
They can add to the total experience. I have proof of that. |
Total experience as in the insurance costs you money?
I was referring to the cost of the medical service.
As far as I know, insurance companies don't tell providers, "Hey. You should charge more money because we want to have to pay those higher prices." |
No, as in the hospital tacking on costs that were never incurred and the insurance company being fine with that. They were offended that I dared question things. I told the story earlier in this thread. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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I just completed my open enrollment, and if the story on the first page is correct, our government is selling some crappy insurance policies. My out of network max is $1500 per person and $3000 for the family. The story is either a fabrication or they need to revamp the affordable care act. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I just completed my open enrollment, and if the story on the first page is correct, our government is selling some crappy insurance policies. My out of network max is $1500 per person and $3000 for the family. The story is either a fabrication or they need to revamp the affordable care act. |
That's about in line with my company PPO insurance.And I'll pay $500 a month for myself and two children in premium. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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I pay about the same for my family. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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