James Harden mixtape
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thurloly
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject:

And dude relies on FT.

Great player right there
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doughboy90650
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject:

I think that's why that best two guard in the league title will probably go to Klay Thompson primarily because he plays on both ends.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject:

After the first 20 games, Harden has 25/6/7/2/1 on 41%, 34% and 90% shooting (the assists and blocks would be Kobe's career high). A PER of 24.7 (would be Kobe's 4th highest), TS% of .582 (would be Kobe's career high) and 1.5 defensive win shares. He has led Houston to a 16-4 record despite players missing the following number of games:

Howard - 10
Jones - 16
Beverly - 12
Canaan - 6

He has been without 3 starters, on a team with little depth, for half the season. Sure looks like the best SG in the game to me....
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:04 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
After the first 20 games, Harden has 25/6/7/2/1 on 41%, 34% and 90% shooting (the assists and blocks would be Kobe's career high). A PER of 24.7 (would be Kobe's 4th highest), TS% of .582 (would be Kobe's career high) and 1.5 defensive win shares. He has led Houston to a 16-4 record despite players missing the following number of games:

Howard - 10
Jones - 16
Beverly - 12
Canaan - 6

He has been without 3 starters, on a team with little depth, for half the season. Sure looks like the best SG in the game to me....


Man, you're grasping for anything these days...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
After the first 20 games, Harden has 25/6/7/2/1 on 41%, 34% and 90% shooting (the assists and blocks would be Kobe's career high). A PER of 24.7 (would be Kobe's 4th highest), TS% of .582 (would be Kobe's career high) and 1.5 defensive win shares. He has led Houston to a 16-4 record despite players missing the following number of games:

Howard - 10
Jones - 16
Beverly - 12
Canaan - 6

He has been without 3 starters, on a team with little depth, for half the season. Sure looks like the best SG in the game to me....


The war is over, Dreamshake. You lost a long time ago.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
After the first 20 games, Harden has 25/6/7/2/1 on 41%, 34% and 90% shooting (the assists and blocks would be Kobe's career high). A PER of 24.7 (would be Kobe's 4th highest), TS% of .582 (would be Kobe's career high) and 1.5 defensive win shares. He has led Houston to a 16-4 record despite players missing the following number of games:

Howard - 10
Jones - 16
Beverly - 12
Canaan - 6

He has been without 3 starters, on a team with little depth, for half the season. Sure looks like the best SG in the game to me....


Man, you're grasping for anything these days...


Grasping for what, that Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at the moment? What SG is having a better season than him so far, or has been more vital to his team?
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
After the first 20 games, Harden has 25/6/7/2/1 on 41%, 34% and 90% shooting (the assists and blocks would be Kobe's career high). A PER of 24.7 (would be Kobe's 4th highest), TS% of .582 (would be Kobe's career high) and 1.5 defensive win shares. He has led Houston to a 16-4 record despite players missing the following number of games:

Howard - 10
Jones - 16
Beverly - 12
Canaan - 6

He has been without 3 starters, on a team with little depth, for half the season. Sure looks like the best SG in the game to me....


The war is over, Dreamshake. You lost a long time ago.


What war would that be exactly?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
I think that's why that best two guard in the league title will probably go to Klay Thompson primarily because he plays on both ends.


So does Harden these days, although I wouldn't call him a defensive stopper. He has been playing defense so far this season. 2 steals, 1 block and up there in defensive win shares.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:03 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:


Grasping for what, that Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at the moment? What SG is having a better season than him so far, or has been more vital to his team?


Certainly, these "moments" you're referring to exclude defense, no?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:20 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:


Grasping for what, that Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at the moment? What SG is having a better season than him so far, or has been more vital to his team?


Certainly, these "moments" you're referring to exclude defense, no?


Nope. See my above posts. No need to let facts get in the way.

To be clear, I am not saying Harden is playing like an elite defender. But it's simply false to say he hasn't been playing defense so far this season.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:21 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
After the first 20 games, Harden has 25/6/7/2/1 on 41%, 34% and 90% shooting (the assists and blocks would be Kobe's career high). A PER of 24.7 (would be Kobe's 4th highest), TS% of .582 (would be Kobe's career high) and 1.5 defensive win shares. He has led Houston to a 16-4 record despite players missing the following number of games:

Howard - 10
Jones - 16
Beverly - 12
Canaan - 6

He has been without 3 starters, on a team with little depth, for half the season. Sure looks like the best SG in the game to me....


Man, you're grasping for anything these days...


Grasping for what, that Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at the moment? What SG is having a better season than him so far, or has been more vital to his team?


Yes, and what exactly does an isolated 20-game stretch that apparently exemplifies why Harden is the best SG in today's game, have to do with Kobe's career sample of isolated stats?

I'm guessing you don't want to juxtapose Kobe's best 20-game stretch with any of Harden's, over their careers.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:37 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
Yes, and what exactly does an isolated 20-game stretch that apparently exemplifies why Harden is the best SG in today's game, have to do with Kobe's career sample of isolated stats?


It shows that at this point in time some of his stats compare to one of the best SG's to ever do it.

vanexelent wrote:
I'm guessing you don't want to juxtapose Kobe's best 20-game stretch with any of Harden's, over their careers.


What does Kobe's best 20 game stretch of his career have to do with whether or not Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at this point in time?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:


Grasping for what, that Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at the moment? What SG is having a better season than him so far, or has been more vital to his team?


Certainly, these "moments" you're referring to exclude defense, no?


Nope. See my above posts. No need to let facts get in the way.

To be clear, I am not saying Harden is playing like an elite defender. But it's simply false to say he hasn't been playing defense so far this season.


Ever catch highlight youtube mixes of good offense?

DJ Mbenga even has one. Now Harden has a defensive one.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:43 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Yes, and what exactly does an isolated 20-game stretch that apparently exemplifies why Harden is the best SG in today's game, have to do with Kobe's career sample of isolated stats?


It shows that at this point in time some of his stats compare to one of the best SG's to ever do it.


Like I said, grasping....
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:


Grasping for what, that Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at the moment? What SG is having a better season than him so far, or has been more vital to his team?


Certainly, these "moments" you're referring to exclude defense, no?


Nope. See my above posts. No need to let facts get in the way.

To be clear, I am not saying Harden is playing like an elite defender. But it's simply false to say he hasn't been playing defense so far this season.


Ever catch highlight youtube mixes of good offense?

DJ Mbenga even has one. Now Harden has a defensive one.


2 steals, 1 block, one of the best defensive win shares. No need to let facts get in the way.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:51 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Yes, and what exactly does an isolated 20-game stretch that apparently exemplifies why Harden is the best SG in today's game, have to do with Kobe's career sample of isolated stats?


It shows that at this point in time some of his stats compare to one of the best SG's to ever do it.


Like I said, grasping....


Like I said:

Dreamshake wrote:
Grasping for what, that Harden is playing like the best SG in basketball at the moment? What SG is having a better season than him so far, or has been more vital to his team?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:33 am    Post subject:

At least with Paul George, the guy was a transformational defender, and although his offensive game wasnt elite, it was more than "the only thing i'm good at is catch and shoot 3's", but Klay is just lazy trolling, harden is better than him at literally everything, orating, drating, ows, dws, ppg, ts, assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, per (and this is while, thanks to injuries, being the most doubled player in the nba by an absolute mile).
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject:

Harden, since Dwight has been out:

8-3 W-L
29.1 PPG
6.1 APG
6.1 RPG
2.4 Stl
1.2 Blks
46% FG
39% 3Pt
88% FT
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject:

at Harden playing good D. You never learn, man.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:08 am    Post subject:

Telleris wrote:
leads league in defensive win shares

someone posts video of one defensive play

idiots think he doesnt play defense

and ill repeat

because if he has a defensive lapse once every couple games, someone will post about it seeking hits. Narratives are about monetization, not factualization.


Beat me to it. This tape, up to the 6:44 mark, seemed to be last year.

Last year, Harden had a DRtg of 107; this year, it is 98

Last year, Harden had a .047 D-WS/48; this year, it is .099 D-WS/48.

Last year, Harden had a Defensive +/- of -5; this year it is 2.2

Last year, Harden had a (82games) defensive production of 12.5 (which seems too low); this year it is 11

These aren't just good numbers, they're exceptional for the position.

I know he pretty much sucked (defensively) last year by the numbers and by watching him. Though I've not seen much of him this year, it sure seems like he's made significant improvement. What does Dreamshake or the Houston fans have to say about this?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
I know he pretty much sucked (defensively) last year by the numbers and by watching him. Though I've not seen much of him this year, it sure seems like he's made significant improvement. What does Dreamshake or the Houston fans have to say about this?


Dreamshake's been saying it the last several posts... Harden appears much improved defensively this season in the limited sample size. I've not watched the Rockets much this season either, but the numbers certainly back up Dreamshake's opinion of Harden this year.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:13 pm    Post subject:

This was discussed in a Deadspin article last month.

http://deadspin.com/james-harden-isnt-godawful-at-defense-but-the-gifs-are-1663031561
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xtalman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject:

Last year Harden was abysmal on defence. This year, he looks totally different. Anyone who says he's just as bad as last year has not watched any Houston games this year. Aside from a few funny gifs, the difference in defensive effort should be immediately obvious to anyone who's watched him in a full game this year.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject:

When I've watched the Rockets this year, I've been impressed with Harden's effort on the defensive end. He has even made some big, game changing defensive plays.

But is this just perception, or is it real?

I checked the stats. The only defensive stat that I take seriously is RPM. The other stuff is all trash, for reasons that have discussed in other threads. RPM is not perfect, but it does a better job than any publicly available metric I've seen. However, you need to use it to compare similar players -- PGs vs. PGs, not PGs vs. Cs.

Here is the SG data for the season to date. Harden ranks #5 in the NBA with a DRPM of +1.82, which is astounding.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2

For comparison purposes, last year Harden ranked #69 among SGs with a DPM of -2.84. We're only a quarter of the way into the season, so Harden may very well regress to the mean. But it does appear that Harden's defensive improvement is not just a matter of perception.

Here are the other rankings by position based on DRPM. As you can see, the results match up pretty well with the eyeball test. It's not perfect, and no stat will ever be perfect. Just the same, the good defensive players tend to rank at the top of the list.

Centers: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

PFs: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/6

SFs: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

PGs: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

P.S. You probably don't want to look at Kobe's DRPM this year. It isn't pretty.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject:

^^^^

Why do you like DRPM and why are the other defensive metrics trash?
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